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  #1  
Old 11-02-2004, 12:05 PM
Rudey Rudey is offline
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Theo Van Gogh, the Dutch Filmmaker Who Criticized Islam, Slain in Amsterdam

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory?id=218066

Dutch Filmmaker Theo Van Gogh Murdered

Nov 2, 7:30 AM (ET)

By TOBY STERLING

AMSTERDAM, Netherlands Nov 2, 2004 — A Dutch filmmaker who had received death threats after releasing a movie criticizing the treatment of women under Islam was slain in Amsterdam on Tuesday, police said.

A suspect, a 26-year-old man with dual Dutch-Moroccan nationality, was arrested after a shootout with officers that left him wounded, police said.

Filmmaker Theo van Gogh had been threatened after the August airing of the movie "Submission," which he made with a right-wing Dutch politician who had renounced the Islamic faith of her birth. Van Gogh had received police protection after its release.

Dutch national broadcaster NOS and other media reported that Van Gogh's killer shot and stabbed his victim and left a note on his body. NOS said witnesses described the attacker as having an "Arab appearance."

A witness who lives in the neighborhood heard six shots, and saw the man concealing a gun. She said he walked away slowly, spoke to someone at the edge of the park, and then ran.

"He was walking slowly, like he was trying to be cool," she said, describing him as wearing a long beard and Islamic garb. "He was either an Arabic man or someone disguised as a Muslim," she said.

Another witness told Dutch Radio 1 the killer arrived by bicycle and shot Van Gogh as he got out of a car. "He fell backward on the bicycle path and just laid there. The shooter stayed next to him and waited. Waited to make sure he was dead."

The slain filmmaker was the great grandson of the brother of famous Dutch painter Vincent van Gogh, who was also named Theo. In a recent radio interview, Van Gogh dismissed the threats and called the movie "the best protection I could have. It's not something I worry about."

Dutch Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende called on the Dutch people to remain calm.

"Nothing is known about the motive," he said in a written statement. "I want to call on everyone not to jump to far-reaching conclusions. The facts must first be carefully weighed so let's allow the investigators to do their jobs."

Balkenende praised Van Gogh as a proponent of free speech who had "outspoken opinions."

"It would be unacceptable if a difference of opinion led to this brutal murder," he said.

Police spokesman Eric Vermeulen said the attacker fled to the nearby East Park, and was arrested after exchanging gunfire with police. Both the suspect and a policeman suffered minor injuries.

"They were conscious" when taken to hospital, Vermeulen said.

Van Gogh's killing immediately rekindled memories of the 2002 assassination of Dutch politician Pim Fortuyn who polarized the nation with his anti-immigration views and was shot to death days before national elections.

In addition to his film, van Gogh also wrote columns about Islam that were published on his Web site, www.theovangogh.nl, and Dutch newspaper Metro.

The short television film "Submission" aired on Dutch television in August, enraged the Muslim community in the Netherlands.

It told the fictional story of a Muslim woman forced into a violent marriage, raped by a relative and brutally punished for adultery.

The English-language film was scripted by a right-wing politician who years ago renounced the Islamic faith of her birth and now refers to herself as an "ex-Muslim."

Somali-born Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a member of the Dutch parliament, has repeatedly outraged fellow Muslims by criticizing Islamic customs and the failure of Muslim families to adopt Dutch ways.

The place of Muslim immigrants in Dutch society has long been a contentious issue in the Netherlands, where many right-wing politicians have pushed for tougher immigration laws and say Muslims already settled in the country must make a greater effort to assimilate.

Theo van Gogh, 47, has often come under criticism for his controversial movies. In December, his next movie "06-05," about the May 6, 2002 assassination of Pim Fortuyn, is scheduled to debut on the Internet.

-Rudey
  #2  
Old 11-02-2004, 12:08 PM
moe.ron moe.ron is offline
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Pim Fortuyn was a racist.
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  #3  
Old 11-02-2004, 12:11 PM
Rudey Rudey is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by moe.ron
Pim Fortuyn was a racist.
A) This is about Van Gogh, not Pim.

B) No matter if he is racist, it has no relation to whether he deserves to die. That is why the country was so upset. Pim was also gay I believe.

C) Van Gogh was murdered after making a film about women's rights in Islam with a Muslim woman.

-Rudey
  #4  
Old 11-02-2004, 12:12 PM
moe.ron moe.ron is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rudey
A) This is about Van Gogh, not Pim.

B) No matter if he is racist, it has no relation to whether he deserves to die. That is why the country was so upset. Pim was also gay I believe.

C) Van Gogh was murdered after making a film about women's rights in Islam with a Muslim woman.

-Rudey
Ok, hope they catch the perpetrator and bring him to justice. Nothing else to say.
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Old 11-04-2004, 01:25 PM
Rudey Rudey is offline
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Nov. 4, 2004 13:06 | Updated Nov. 4, 2004 13:31
8 Muslims arrested in Dutch filmmaker's killing
By ASSOCIATED PRESS

AMSTERDAM, Netherlands

Dutch prosecutors said police have arrested eight more suspected Islamic radicals as part of ongoing investigations into the brutal killing of outspoken Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh.

The arrests were made in the 24 hours following Van Gogh's slaying while he was cycling down an Amsterdam street, prosecution spokeswoman Dop Kruimel said Wednesday. These arrests are in addition to the arrest of the alleged killer, a 26-year-old Amsterdam resident of Moroccan origin.

Six of the most recent detainees are of Moroccan ancestry, one is Algerian and the last has dual Spanish-Moroccan nationality, Kruimel told The Associated Press. Kruimel said the suspects, whose identities were not released, were detained and released during an October 2003 investigation into a potential terrorist threat.

"They were previously known to us," Kruimel said. "As of now only one suspect is being held for Van Gogh's murder, but the investigation will determine if others may have been connected."

The Dutch have reacted with outrage to the killing of the celebrity filmmaker who criticized Islam, testing the nation's famed tolerance and straining already tense relations with the large Muslim immigrant population.

Mainstream Dutch Muslim groups condemned Tuesday's killing, which some experts are calling the first act of Islamic terrorism in the Netherlands.

A number of mosques were closed Tuesday night for fear of vandalism and political figures were given additional police protection.

The respected NRC Handelsblad reported that conservative politician Ayan Hirsi Ali, who wrote the script for Van Gogh's latest provocative movie criticizing the treatment of women under Islam, received a death threat in an e-mail Wednesday that read "You're next."

The Justice Ministry said the suspect in the murder of Theo van Gogh, is a Muslim radical associated with Islamic fundamentalists on a terrorist watch list. Authorities didn't release his name, but Dutch media identified him as Mohammed B.

Members of parliament called for an emergency debate on why the culprit, who police say had a record of violent crime, hadn't been stopped. "Is this a murder, or is this a terrorist attack?" said Jozias van Aartsen, leader of the conservative VVD party.

Van Gogh released a fictional film in August about the mistreatment of Muslim women who were shown naked with texts from the Quran scrawled on their bodies.

The killing of brash social commentator Van Gogh after the murder of populist anti-immigration politician Pim Fortuyn in 2002, drew outrage and fears that people will no longer dare to speak freely. Immigration minister Rita Verdonk told 20,000 Dutch who flocked to Amsterdam's central square for a noisy wake Tuesday night "we won't take this." Verdonk called an emergency meeting with leaders of Muslim groups to discuss how to avoid confrontations.

Interior Minister Johan Remkes confirmed that the suspect in Van Gogh's murder was known to have associated with a group of 150 radicals who are watched day and night by the Dutch secret service for fear they may commit a terrorist act. The Netherlands has arrested more than 40 terrorism suspects since Sept. 11, 2001, including many accused of providing logistical support for al-Qaida linked groups.

-Rudey
  #6  
Old 11-04-2004, 02:29 PM
Munchkin03 Munchkin03 is offline
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When I originally read about this, I thought this might be the act of a single deranged person.

But no.
  #7  
Old 11-04-2004, 02:45 PM
_Opi_ _Opi_ is offline
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This is the first time I'm reading about this. I personally couldn't care less if that dutch filmmaker was murdered or not. There's one thing to make a movie about muslim women being abused, and another to portray a naked women with the Koran written all over her body. ...all in the name of art, I guess.

However, a murder is a murder. And a terrorist attack is a terrorist attack. So I hope that justice does prevail.
  #8  
Old 11-04-2004, 03:05 PM
Rudey Rudey is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by _Opi_
This is the first time I'm reading about this. I personally couldn't care less if that dutch filmmaker was murdered or not. There's one thing to make a movie about muslim women being abused, and another to portray a naked women with the Koran written all over her body. ...all in the name of art, I guess.

However, a murder is a murder. And a terrorist attack is a terrorist attack. So I hope that justice does prevail.
Your first paragraph:
1) You don't care that he was murdered.
2) You seem to justify this by making some sort of reference to how it was desecrating the koran

Your second paragraph:
1) Murder is murder.
2) Terrorist attack is terrorist attack.

There was no need for the first paragraph really.

-Rudey
  #9  
Old 11-04-2004, 06:29 PM
Munchkin03 Munchkin03 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by _Opi_
This is the first time I'm reading about this. I personally couldn't care less if that dutch filmmaker was murdered or not. There's one thing to make a movie about muslim women being abused, and another to portray a naked women with the Koran written all over her body. ...all in the name of art, I guess.

However, a murder is a murder. And a terrorist attack is a terrorist attack. So I hope that justice does prevail.
If you don't care that he was murdered, why even post? Why even read the thread?

There might be a few people who are interested in the world outside their little bubble.
  #10  
Old 11-04-2004, 10:05 PM
James James is offline
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I don't think thats the point Opi was making. Opi seemed to be implying that he/she didn't care about the murder because of the reasons why the film maker was killed.

He/she is being Chris Rockish: Given what the film maker did, Opi is not saying he would have killed him, but she understands why someone would. . .

Quote:
Originally posted by Munchkin03
If you don't care that he was murdered, why even post? Why even read the thread?

There might be a few people who are interested in the world outside their little bubble.
  #11  
Old 11-06-2004, 10:28 AM
_Opi_ _Opi_ is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Munchkin03
If you don't care that he was murdered, why even post? Why even read the thread?

Because it's called freedom of speech, dear.


James,

Im not a he-she.....I'm a she.


Rudey,

The first paragraph was an opinion.
  #12  
Old 11-06-2004, 12:14 PM
PhiPsiRuss PhiPsiRuss is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by _Opi_
This is the first time I'm reading about this. I personally couldn't care less if that dutch filmmaker was murdered or not. There's one thing to make a movie about muslim women being abused, and another to portray a naked women with the Koran written all over her body. ...all in the name of art, I guess.

However, a murder is a murder. And a terrorist attack is a terrorist attack. So I hope that justice does prevail.
This really shows your true colors, and what a despicable human being that you are.
  #13  
Old 11-06-2004, 12:32 PM
Munchkin03 Munchkin03 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by PhiPsiRuss
This really shows your true colors, and what a despicable human being that you are.
What he said.

People who comment on world affairs without any real awareness, and then attempt to be patronizing when challenged, annoy me to no end.
  #14  
Old 11-06-2004, 12:33 PM
James James is offline
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Now now. She is entitles to a point of view and we should respect her for being honest, even though we don't agree with it

Also, making the attack personal is not appropriate. You could say that you believe that to be a despicable opinion instead, rather than generalizing it out.

Quote:
Originally posted by PhiPsiRuss
This really shows your true colors, and what a despicable human being that you are.
  #15  
Old 11-06-2004, 12:39 PM
_Opi_ _Opi_ is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by PhiPsiRuss
This really shows your true colors, and what a despicable human being that you are.
What's up with the insult? What is my true colors, and why am I despicable?

My bad for not caring about a dutch filmmaker!


Maybe you think I am a despicable human being for other reasons not directly relating to what I said?

Last edited by _Opi_; 11-06-2004 at 12:44 PM.
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