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  #1  
Old 10-11-2004, 11:39 AM
Rudey Rudey is offline
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Bush Wins Second Debate

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/11/op...safire.html?hp

How Bush Won Round 2
By WILLIAM SAFIRE

Published: October 11, 2004

Washington

When pro-Kerry commentators solemnly pronounce Debate Round 2 to have been "a draw" - you know George Bush won that round.

The president won because he went in with a theme spoken by the heavyweight champion Joe Louis, just before his 1946 rematch victory over the lighter, faster Billy Conn: "He can run, but he can't hide." (The Brown Bomber caught up with Conn in the eighth round of that first TV spectacular.)

Bush's debate plan was to keep boring in on the Kerry record: flip-flopping this year on the war, but all too consistently liberal for 20 years on tax increases.

On the war, Kerry almost eagerly made Bush's point, at first saying, "I do believe Saddam Hussein was a threat," and moments later denouncing Bush for being "preoccupied with Iraq, where there wasn't a threat."

The president exploited the contradiction in Kerry's latest policy, which claims the ability to attract troop support from France, Germany and Russia - while agreeing with them that the war was a diversion. To Kerry's "plan" to hold a summit, Bush asked: "And what is he going to say to those people that show up to the summit? 'Join me in the wrong war at the wrong time at the wrong place'?"

Although Kerry accused the Bush campaign of "mass deception," he let the president focus on that illogical policy. The Democrat weakly cited recent worrying by Republican Senators Richard Lugar and Chuck Hagel, recited a list of retired generals who endorsed him and embraced Ronald Reagan. Such a stretch for conservative company, followed by a plaintive "We will get tough!," hardly shows strength.

When Kerry complained again of "going it alone," Bush was ready with a powerful counterpunch: "Tell Tony Blair we're going alone. Tell Silvio Berlusconi we're going alone. Tell Aleksander Kwasniewski we're going alone."

This not only showed that Bush knew these allies personally, but could also pronounce Kwasniewski's name, which reminded Polish-Americans that Poland's president had responded angrily to Kerry's brushoff of his country's sacrifices in the first debate. (Next day, Australians re-elected John Howard, a staunch coalition member, who trounced a cut-and-run opponent - good news for coalition leaders.)

When the questioning turned to taxes, Kerry pandered with a liberal's absurd promise not to sign legislation raising taxes on anybody making less than $200,000 a year, neglecting only to say,"Read my lips."

Kerry also blundered with a weird attack on an $84 item in the Bushes' federal income tax return, supposedly from a timber business. "I own a timber company? That's news to me," said Bush, adding engagingly in what was the most natural moment in the debate, "Need some wood?" It turns out that Kerry relied on an Annenberg Web site that later admitted it had been confused, which left the Democratic candidate out on a hardwood limb. Bush was too much the gentleman to point out, now that their income taxes were in dispute, that Mrs. Heinz Kerry paid only 11 percent in 2003 on her $5 million income, while the Bushes paid 28 percent.

(Although every Bush slip gets delighted examination - he called Kerry "Kennedy" and he said, "Internets"; can you imagine? - Kerry's minor gaffes attract little notice. When citing his overseas travel in the first debate, Kerry talked of visiting the old K.G.B. headquarters "in Treblinka square." He meant Lubyanka Square; Treblinka was the Nazi death camp. We all make mistakes.)

As Bush picked up steam, Kerry seemed to lose heart, again evoking Lugar and Hagel, skillfully backing away like Billy Conn. Asked about high damage awards gained by trial lawyers that drive up everybody's insurance premiums, he replied that John Edwards and he "support tort reform," even to limitations on punitive awards. Bush delivered a body blow: "You're now for capping punitive damages. That's odd. You should have shown up on the floor in the Senate and voted for it then."

In an anguishing moment, Kerry said he was against partial-birth abortion (as are most voters, including many pro-choice) and then explained why he voted against the ban that is now law. Countered Bush: "He was given a chance to vote and he voted no. . . . It's clear for everybody to see. And as I said, you can run, but you can't hide."

-Rudey
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  #2  
Old 10-11-2004, 12:00 PM
Love_Spell_6 Love_Spell_6 is offline
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...The New York Times...eh
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  #3  
Old 10-11-2004, 12:29 PM
The1calledTKE The1calledTKE is offline
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Didn't the Chicago paper call it a draw? Many papers say many different things.
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  #4  
Old 10-11-2004, 03:01 PM
chideltjen chideltjen is offline
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All papers/news sources are calling it different. ABC news called it a Kerry win.
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  #5  
Old 10-11-2004, 03:04 PM
Rudey Rudey is offline
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As far as I've seen it was an obvious Bush win.

-Rudey
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  #6  
Old 10-11-2004, 03:24 PM
The1calledTKE The1calledTKE is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rudey
As far as I've seen it was an obvious Bush win.

-Rudey
No doubt you would call every deabte a Bush win. Not like I would say Bush ever won too, because I don't see it that way. Just depends on how people view the issues.
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  #7  
Old 10-11-2004, 03:32 PM
Rudey Rudey is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by The1calledTKE
No doubt you would call every deabte a Bush win. Not like I would say Bush ever won too, because I don't see it that way. Just depends on how people view the issues.
I didn't call the first debate a Bush win. Stop making these statements.

-Rudey
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  #8  
Old 10-11-2004, 10:28 PM
phikappapsiman phikappapsiman is offline
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I was watching "The McLaughlin Group" this past weekend (Great show because it always has two conservatives and two liberals or one and one with two moderates as panelists), and they were talking about the debate. And Pat Buchannan of course said that Bush "hit a home run", but one of the other panelists said that the reason Bush seemed to do so well is that the expectations were so low after the first debate. Basically, he had nowhere to go but up. Compared to the first one where he wasn't at his best (or maybe it was the best that he could have done-I can't answer that), he did do better on this one. So for me, Bush did win, because he wasn't as bad as he could have been, and he didn't embarrass himself as much. Way to go George!!!
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  #9  
Old 10-12-2004, 10:54 AM
Rudey Rudey is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by phikappapsiman
I was watching "The McLaughlin Group" this past weekend (Great show because it always has two conservatives and two liberals or one and one with two moderates as panelists), and they were talking about the debate. And Pat Buchannan of course said that Bush "hit a home run", but one of the other panelists said that the reason Bush seemed to do so well is that the expectations were so low after the first debate. Basically, he had nowhere to go but up. Compared to the first one where he wasn't at his best (or maybe it was the best that he could have done-I can't answer that), he did do better on this one. So for me, Bush did win, because he wasn't as bad as he could have been, and he didn't embarrass himself as much. Way to go George!!!
You win by being better than the other person. He may have been better than before, but in the end he was better than Kerry in this debate.

-Rudey
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