Is Beta Theta Pi our father fraternity?

[uwotheta]

During my new member meetings we were told that Beta Theta Pi was our father fraternity, however the Betas did not know this. I was wondering if it was known that they were our father fraternity or if we just pretty much labeled them that since Bettie Locke Hamilton's father was a Beta Theta Pi.

[Greekgrrl]

This is one of those half-truths that people extrapolate into full blown myths so they can boast of our relationship (or debt to) a fraternity.

From HQ's site:

To be sure, there were societies for women before 1867, and some of these had secret rituals with badges, passwords, mottoes, and other symbols. But in 1870, Theta became the first women's Greek-letter fraternity because its primary founder, Bettie Locke, wanted full membership in a male fraternity. When the men asked her to wear their fraternity badge as a "mascot," she responded, "If you won't initiate me into your fraternity, I'll start my own."

Every history I've read says that although Bettie and the other three may have been inspired or egged on by relatives and friends in Beta and Fiji, the ritual, the badge, the symbolism, the organization of the Fraternity all came from the founders and later members.

Edited to add this link to a similar discussion (you can see I'm a little prickly about the subject): http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...threadid=31055

Only Zeta Phi Beta and Phi Beta Sigma are "officially" or "nationally" brother-sister organizations.

[thetalady]

Interesting that this quote claims that Ridpath & Dobell actually wrote our initiation ritual. Am I reading this quote right? :

From FIJI's records

At any rate, Bettie Locke contended that, if she were to wear the proffered badge, she would have to become a Phi Gamma Delta member whole and complete, or not at all. The Lambda lads finally admitted their inability to establish a precedent by initiating a woman member; so was the issue drawn. Viola! And since neither party knew of women becoming members of Beta Theta Pi and Phi Delta Theta, the Theta historian was enabled to write in1930: ". . . . fortunately for Kappa Alpha Theta, she was not initiated into Phi Gamma Delta. The young men compromised by presenting Bettie a handsome silver cake-basket with the Greek letters, Phi Gamma Delta

Fijis soon suggested, as their "measure of respect and appreciation," a coalition of the two societies to create a brother and sister order. Thus doth politics make hypocrites of us all. This suggestion, like the Fijis' first proposal to Bettie Locke, was considered and declined.

From Dr. Locke and the eminent Fiji historian, Dr. John Clark Ridpath (DePauw '63), the two planners extracted numerous suggestions. One of the latter's 'sisters, Martha Ridpath, who later became a Theta, "told how the girls spent one morning in the large, warm kitchen of the Ridpath home, and that Mrs. Ridpath in after years, reported they had 'cut up enough paper to fill a woodbox, trying to decide on a shape for their badge.

Most interesting of all was the story of his father and John C. Ridpath (DePauw 1863). Joseph Dobell and the eminent historian were connected with the founding of the Kappa Alpha Theta sorority, the two of them writing the Theta initiation ritual.

[scuthetagirl]

Ew, what's that? I think HQ would disagree. I was told in my new member education that we were under no circumstances indebted to the FIJIs or any other men's frat. How weird.

[thetalady]

Originally posted by scuthetagirl
Ew, what's that? I think HQ would disagree. I was told in my new member education that we were under no circumstances indebted to the FIJIs or any other men's frat. How weird.

You are absolutely right!! I was pretty shocked to read this on their website. Hey, maybe they just want to try to take a little credit for influencing the FIRST and BEST Greek Fraternity for Women!

[fijijr]

Ladies I would hate for you to think that our IHQ would allow such knowledge to go unchecked and to allow the tales of a brother to be taken as truth. I do wish to point out that the article is to be taken as stated on the link leading to it "with a grain of salt." In addition the last line on the page is from the Fraternity's Curator of Archives, "Perhaps we should regard these recollections as apocryphal, unless some contemporary evidence can be produced to enforce one claim or the other."

I will say knowing the character of the Thetas I have met; I could see why a brother would have tried to permanently attach himself to your founding. Have a wonderful day ladies and hopefully this post is seen in just congenial intergreek relations.

[thetalady]

Originally posted by fijijr
I will say knowing the character of the Thetas I have met; I could see why a brother would have tried to permanently attach himself to your founding. Have a wonderful day ladies and hopefully this post is seen in just congenial intergreek relations.

Absolutely!!! What a lovely thing to say! You know we Thetas are independant, strong women. Standing on our own 2 feet is a big deal to us

[zhbeta158]

I hope I am not intruding but I was always under the interpretation that there was a brother/sister fraternal link with Theta. We were told that Theta founder Bettie's father had aided in the writings of the Theta ritual as well as incorporated some Beta ritual into it.
We had a Theta from Penn come not too long ago and she had identified herself as from "your sister sorority." (we havent had Theta here at San Jose State for 30+ yrs so most brothers in our chapter aren't too familiar with them, but there is a Theta chapter at a nearby univ).
Whether it's true or not I do not know but upon hearing the news I thought it pretty cool and was honored to have one of our alumni to be somehow affiliated in the history of a well-represented organization

Take care-

Vik

[ThetaPrincess24]

If you read the above posts about this you'll find that we do not currently nor in the past have an official "father" fraternity. Kappa Alpha Theta is indebted to no one.

[Janerz222]

Vik,

Thanks for your kind words about Theta.

Glad to know some Greek life is alive and well at SJSU. I have many older alumnae friends who were members of our Theta chapter at SJ State, and they are fabulous ladies and miss their chapter.

I had a good friend who was president of the Beta house at Stanford years ago. Solid guy (still is!). I know the house has changed hands a few times at Stanford since then, but it will always be the Beta house to me!

Good luck at SJSU!

[zhbeta158]

I do not know if you know but the Betas left Stanford in 1993. I have recently gotten in touch with a Stanford Beta, perhaps you know him? Brian Job; he was an olympic medalist in swimming. Anyway, you should ask the Thetas from SJSU if they might possibly want to reactivate the SJSU Chapter, sororities rarely are able to expand on this campus but I think they are thinking about adding a chapter. Hope all is well, take care!

[Janerz222]

Yes, I knew that Betas left Stanford. But, the big white house on the Row will always be the Beta house to me!

Thanks for the heads-up about possible extension at SJ State. We'll stay tuned.

[weski]

When I was introduced to my future husband from DePauw, he said that at DePauw's FIGI Lambda chapter they and Theta had long been "brother-sister" in relationships and joint activities. Former Alpha chapter president and decendent from one of our founders confirmed same. Their combined historic knowledge was good enough for me as I married my "brother!"