Lionel Tate Case: Minors Charged/Convicted as Adults?

[AKA2D '91]

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/...ate030307.html

Tate will get a new trial after an appeals court Wednesday threw out his conviction for beating a 6-year old friend to death while he was imitating pro wrestlers. Tate was tried as an adult.


Tate 2 years ago...





Tate now...


I thought we had discussed this. I used various terms while searching, but I didn't find anything.

[FeeFee]

Wow - he looks so different now. I remember watching the newstory while in the gym yesterday. Someone mentioned that the boy's attorney did not ask some basic questions, like if the boy was fully aware of what was going on trial-wise. Let's see what happens to him now that appeals have stepped in.

[Honeykiss1974]

I am glad that this appeal is going through. A life sentence for this 12 year old boy was EXCESSIVE!!! Even the young girl's mother thought that was excessive! She wanted him to get help, not that mess.

It will be interesting to see how this unfolds.

[kdonline]

Sorry to post in your thread, but I live in the area where this happened - it's huge news here, of course. I'm just happy to see this discussed in GC, because I feel very strongly that this boy's life sentence is so very wrong.

A few points:
- Lionel has a low IQ, which was not the defense his attorney chose to pursure. Instead, they used the "blame it on pro wrestling" defense.

- the victim's mother DOES agree with the 1st degree charge, but she felt that life in prison was too harsh.

- Lionel DID kill Tiffany, but should he have been brought up on first degree murder charges!?

From today's SunSentinel (our local paper):
"Rosenbaum said he hopes Broward prosecutors will again offer to let Tate plead guilty to second-degree murder in exchange for a sentence of three years in a juvenile detention facility, followed by a year of house arrest, 10 years of probation, psychological tests and 1,000 hours of community service.

'I think that's a very reasonable offer,' Rosenbaum said. Tate has already served nearly three years of his sentence.

The prosecutor offered that plea agreement to Tate before trial but Tate's mother, Kathleen Grossett-Tate, and his trial attorney, Jim Lewis, rejected it. If Tate had taken the deal, he would have been eligible for release 10 months ago.

Many legal observers said the decision to reject the plea deal was a mistake. Even a defense medical expert testified Tiffany's death was not an accident.

The evidence showed Tiffany was brutally slain, suffering as many as 35 injuries. One expert testified that they were of the kind caused by a three-story fall.

And all the trial witnesses, prosecution and defense, rejected the defense argument that Tate accidentally hurt Tiffany while mimicking pro wrestlers or play-fighting.

But witnesses on both sides also testified Tate was immature, even for a 12-year-old."

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/loc...,2022654.story


BTW, this case also happened around the same time where another South Florida Af-Am boy shot & killed his teacher. That is a totally different case - obviously thought out - but Tate's case has totally different circumstances.

In a larger sense, what is at question here - in both cases - is whether or not a child should ever be charged as an adult.

[nikki1920]

Did his family understand that they were going with basically an all or nothing defense?

This case just yells WRONG to me!

[Intense1920]

I'm glad he's getting a new trial. I thought this punishment was too severe considering that some who premeditate murders don't get a life without parole sentence.

[Prissfit1908]

I definitely felt the punishment was excessive in this case. While the fact remains that a life was lost, I am also aware that we live in a society in which violence is glorified. I don't think we as intelligent adults can assume that a 12-year-old with a below average IQ is able to draw the line between right and wrong. From the bit of information I know about this case, I'm not convinced the boy knew what the consequences of his actions might be. While that may not be an argument that holds up in court, it needs to be considered.

I just hope that his experiences these last three years have not been so traumatic that he will not be able to grow into a relatively healthy, normal young adult man. I'm not aware of his living conditions in jail, or if he was was in the general population or not (I pray not). Many of us are aware of what can and often does happen to individuals in jail. The physical change in him is frightening.

[kdonline]

Nikki: yes, Tate's mother was totally aware. They were offered the plea deal, but she refused it. Everyone in this community was shocked that they refused the deal. She is a Florida State Trooper...and was home during the tragedy, asleep upstairs. There was even talk of bringing up charges against her, for leaving the kids unattended.

(And personally, I DO think it's inappropriate to leave a 12 year old boy alone with a 6 year old girl - regardless of mental capacity. If they were family, maybe I'd change my mind, but they are not related.)

Priss: I agree with you 100%. This boy had no idea of his strength. Granted, he should know that playing rough like that is not appropriate, but being that he is low functioning, he probably didn't understand. (Another reason why the kids should not have been left alone.)

As for his physical change, I don't think it's frightening. I think he's gone through puberty - his stats are listed at 5'9", 196 lbs (current as of 12/7/03). My brother was a chubby 12 year old and grew into a tall skinny boy when he was 16.

[NinjaPoodle]

**UPDATE**

http://kron4.com/Global/story.asp?S=...9&nav=5D7lKQSe

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: January 26, 2004 at 3:08 p.m.
FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. (AP) -- Lionel Tate, the teen who killed a 6-year-old playmate and became the youngest defendant in the nation to be locked away for life, was released Monday after three years behind bars.

Tate clasped hands with his mother and they raised their arms in celebration after the 16-year-old left the jail surrounded by friends, family and lawyers.

Circuit Judge Joel Lazarus earlier ordered Tate freed without bail, a month after an appeals court threw out the boy's conviction because his mental competency was not evaluated before trial. Tate has since struck a plea bargain that will mean no further time in prison.

Supporters have rallied from the Vatican to the United Nations to free Tate since he was convicted of first-degree murder in the death of 6-year-old playmate Tiffany Eunick three years ago. Tate was 12 when he punched, kicked and stomped the 48-pound girl to death in 1999.

Tate had claimed he accidentally killed the girl while imitating professional wrestling moves he had seen on television.

(Copyright 2004 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)



My heart is so overjoyed that he has been released. This is a wake up call that we really must take better care of our children.

[FeeFee]

Originally posted by NinjaPoodle
**UPDATE**

http://kron4.com/Global/story.asp?S=...9&nav=5D7lKQSe

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: January 26, 2004 at 3:08 p.m.
FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. (AP) -- Lionel Tate, the teen who killed a 6-year-old playmate and became the youngest defendant in the nation to be locked away for life, was released Monday after three years behind bars.

Tate clasped hands with his mother and they raised their arms in celebration after the 16-year-old left the jail surrounded by friends, family and lawyers.

Circuit Judge Joel Lazarus earlier ordered Tate freed without bail, a month after an appeals court threw out the boy's conviction because his mental competency was not evaluated before trial. Tate has since struck a plea bargain that will mean no further time in prison.

Supporters have rallied from the Vatican to the United Nations to free Tate since he was convicted of first-degree murder in the death of 6-year-old playmate Tiffany Eunick three years ago. Tate was 12 when he punched, kicked and stomped the 48-pound girl to death in 1999.

Tate had claimed he accidentally killed the girl while imitating professional wrestling moves he had seen on television.

(Copyright 2004 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)



My heart is so overjoyed that he has been released. This is a wake up call that we really must take better care of our children.

I agree. We must take better care of our children. Thank God he's out of jail.

[D.COM]

Originally posted by kdonline
Sorry to post in your thread, but I live in the area where this happened - it's huge news here, of course. I'm just happy to see this discussed in GC, because I feel very strongly that this boy's life sentence is so very wrong.

A few points:
- Lionel has a low IQ, which was not the defense his attorney chose to pursure. Instead, they used the "blame it on pro wrestling" defense.

- the victim's mother DOES agree with the 1st degree charge, but she felt that life in prison was too harsh.

- Lionel DID kill Tiffany, but should he have been brought up on first degree murder charges!?

From today's SunSentinel (our local paper):
"Rosenbaum said he hopes Broward prosecutors will again offer to let Tate plead guilty to second-degree murder in exchange for a sentence of three years in a juvenile detention facility, followed by a year of house arrest, 10 years of probation, psychological tests and 1,000 hours of community service.

'I think that's a very reasonable offer,' Rosenbaum said. Tate has already served nearly three years of his sentence.

The prosecutor offered that plea agreement to Tate before trial but Tate's mother, Kathleen Grossett-Tate, and his trial attorney, Jim Lewis, rejected it. If Tate had taken the deal, he would have been eligible for release 10 months ago.

Many legal observers said the decision to reject the plea deal was a mistake. Even a defense medical expert testified Tiffany's death was not an accident.

The evidence showed Tiffany was brutally slain, suffering as many as 35 injuries. One expert testified that they were of the kind caused by a three-story fall.

And all the trial witnesses, prosecution and defense, rejected the defense argument that Tate accidentally hurt Tiffany while mimicking pro wrestlers or play-fighting.

But witnesses on both sides also testified Tate was immature, even for a 12-year-old."

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/loc...,2022654.story


BTW, this case also happened around the same time where another South Florida Af-Am boy shot & killed his teacher. That is a totally different case - obviously thought out - but Tate's case has totally different circumstances.

In a larger sense, what is at question here - in both cases - is whether or not a child should ever be charged as an adult.

I agree...GOOOOO GATORS!!!!!!!

[Honeykiss1974]

I am glad as everyone else is, that he is released. Hoepfully, lly with some counseling, prayer, and guidance, he can go on to become a productive citizen of society.

[kiml122]

Originally posted by kdonline
Nikki: yes, Tate's mother was totally aware. They were offered the plea deal, but she refused it.

This tripped me out that now the mother wants to take tbis deal, when it was offered in the beginning she refused it. The mother of the slain little girl stated she will not block the new offer, but she does want him to admit that it wasn't an accident because he was trying to do a wrestling move. She wants him to say that he killed her.

[AKA2D '91]

HERE IT IS!

The LAN at work was down, therefore, I could not get to God's Ivy's thread in time.
http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...threadid=77840

[Rudey]

Probation violation

On September 3, 2004, Tate was arrested for violating the terms of his plea bargain when he was found out of his house and carrying a four-inch knife. On October 29, the Associated Press reported that Tate was placed on zero tolerance probation, for an additional five years.

On November 30, Tate was allowed to return to the home of his mother, Kathleen Grossett-Tate. The family he had been staying with asked he be removed because frequent visits by state probation officers were too stressful.
[edit]

Armed robbery arrest and subsequent plea bargain

On May 23, 2005, Tate was charged with armed burglary with battery, armed robbery and violation of probation, the Broward County, Florida, Sheriff's Office said.

Tate greeted Domino's Pizza deliveryman Walter Ernest Gallardo with a handgun outside a friend's apartment after phoning in an order. Gallardo dropped the four pizzas and fled the scene. Tate then re-entered the apartment, having to assault the occupant who did not want Tate inside.

Gallardo called 9-1-1 upon reaching the Domino's store and returned to identify Tate, the sheriff's office said in a statement. No gun was recovered.

On March 1, 2006, Tate accepted a plea bargain and will be sentenced to 10-30 years imprisonment in a sentencing hearing in April 2006. Tate admitted that he had violated probation by possessing a gun during the May 23 robbery that netted four pizzas worth $33.60 and with violating laws by doing so. Tate has refused to answer questions about where he got and later disposed of the gun.

-Rudey
--It was a one time thing for him