NPHC organizations and Kappa Kappa Psi

[oneninetwotwo]

This is in no way meant to be condescending or rude.

I have a question. How do you guys feel about Kappa Kappa Psi acting as an NPHC organization on some campuses. At some school (HBCU's) there is no line between NPHC organizations and Kappa Kappa Psi.

I thought they built better bands. Some members get mad because they can't step at NPHC step shows or because they can't go around at the parties. Why? I'm mad that at an NPHC function I can't get through with my strut line because the band members are in the way? Why would their organization want to do things that are traditionally associated with NPHC organizations? This is not to say we own these things and no one else can do them. I guess I just want to know where and when did they start that? And how do other NPHC organizations feel about it?

[ChaosDST]

At HBCUs, damn near every student-run organization takes on some traditions that we commonly associate with BGLOs.

I don't have a problem with KKPsi, but I DO have an issue if people do not show respect to where their traditions come from. Same applies to BGLOs who are unaware, and do not show respect to, where our traditions come from.

[WhirlwindTNX]

I'm glad you put this topic up.

Some MCGLO's do the same. We party walk, wear jackets, have calls, throw signs, etc. And it's true. You HAVE to respect who started it first but it's still not going to make everyone like what you're doing. Some people just don't like change, and that goes for all GLO's.

But be strong and make sure you give credit where credit is due.

[Senusret I]

Originally posted by oneninetwotwo
I guess I just want to know where and when did they start that?

I don't really know much about KKPsi, so I will use my first fraternity, Alpha Phi Omega, as an example. I sponsored a Petitioning Group of APO at an HBCU, and before we even had an information session, we spent hours in the library looking through old yearbooks and many more hours talking to alumni who were around in the 1950s and 1960s.

At Howard University in the late forties, there was much interest in Alpha Phi Omega, because at the time, it was a Scouting fraternity, and lots of college men of the era had been Boy Scouts. But this was to be an organization that was new to Howard. How should men in this "new" fraternity behave?

Luckily, Alpha Phi Omega had been around for over twenty years nationally and was rapidly expanding, so there were already a lot of traditions that were handed to the chapter, such as songs and chants. And yes, these songs and chants came from white chapters -- Howard is only the second black APO chapter.

But no one outside of your campus can tell you how your own fraternity should "behave" on your campus in terms of traditions. Alpha Phi Omega has always encouraged the individuality of chapters -- it does not hurt our organization if the FAMU chapter steps and the FSU chapter does not.

So these men at Howard operated Alpha Phi Omega in the same way that any Fraternity was run on Howard's campus: professionally and seriously and gaining the respect of the campus for doing so.

APO at many schools predates what we know as "modern" stepping. Take a glimpse at a Howard yearbook and you will see an APO sweetheart court, pictures of them singing at their plot, and many community based activities. They weren't "copying" these traditions -- they were expectations of any org with Greek letters at Howard. Alpha Phi Omega was right there when NPHC traditions came to fruition. Not only were they there, they participated in the building of those traditions.

Because APO's prominence at HBCU's decreased at a critical time in the development of NPHC organizationsm namely the 70's and early 80's, many members of that era cannot remember a time when APO was active on their yard, doing the same activities as NPHC organizations. But those from the previous era, the 50's and 60's will recall those similarities.

What is happening now is that APO, GSS, KKPsi, TBS, and several other non-traditional organizations chartered on HBCUs are enjoying a resurgence in popularity. As they recharter, they are reclaiming the traditions that rightfully belong to them, as their predecessors participated in their development just as much as their NPHC counterparts.

Because there is that gap in these org's prominence, the NPHC collective memory doesn't quite know what to do with non-NPHC organizations using similar traditions.

It isn't a simple issue, and it takes a lot of research that most people don't have time to do. So in lieu of visiting the Moorland-Spingarn Research Center, I suggest taking an afternoon to go to an HBCU library and go through the yearbooks. Also, Black Greek 101 by Dr. Walter Kimbrough offers a glimpse into these similarities.

[DGMarie]

As an alumna of a predominantly white TBS chapter with a brother KKPsi chapter (also predominantly white), I can tell you that as far back as I can recall, there have always been chapters of both organizations at HBCU that have had calls, step shows, lines and the like. This isn't a recent phenomenom (relatively speaking). As for the history of these orgs, I'd suggest you visit their website:

http://www.kkytbs.org/

[hoosier]

Originally posted by oneninetwotwo
How do you guys feel about Kappa Kappa Psi acting as an NPHC organization on some campuses. At some school (HBCU's) there is no line between NPHC organizations and Kappa Kappa Psi.

Sounds to me like your campus needs another chapter. Here are some people who want to act like a GLO, and even have a Greek Letter name, and you want to diss them.

I'd encourage them, and see if they have the people and organization to thrive and survive.

If they don't want to be in one of the existing GLOs, let them start another.

PS: I was a KKPsi pledge once, but never a member.

[oneninetwotwo]

I think you misunderstood the question or maybe the question was lost in interpretation. I do not want to diss them. I repsect their organization.

I just want to understand when this behavior started? And why?

[33girl]

Reread this post, one of the best and most succinct I've ever seen on this subject.

Originally posted by ChaosDST
At HBCUs, damn near every student-run organization takes on some traditions that we commonly associate with BGLOs.

I don't have a problem with KKPsi, but I DO have an issue if people do not show respect to where their traditions come from. Same applies to BGLOs who are unaware, and do not show respect to, where our traditions come from.

[DGMarie]

Originally posted by oneninetwotwo
I just want to understand when this behavior started? And why?

Why WOULDN'T these organizations want to do these things? Step shows, strut lines and so forth are not soley owned by NPHC orgs (or are they?) It seems to me that you could anwer your questions simply by meeting some of the leadership of the KKPsi chapter and having a conversation. As I mentioned early, they have been doing these things at HBCU for over 20 years.

[Senusret I]

Hey what am I, the invisible man?

lol

[oneninetwotwo]

I didn't say that NPHC groups were the sole owners of these things. I guess I just want to understand how the lack of respect from KKPsi (not all chapters and members) to NPHC. We have KKPsi here at my school and there is none of that. All they do is build better bands. Period.

Stemming from ChaosDST, I just want them to repsect the traditions. Don't throw it in my face that you step better than me or your call is cooler because you can't go around at my party of strut at my step shows. That's immature.

[WCUgirl]

Originally posted by ChaosDST
At HBCUs, damn near every student-run organization takes on some traditions that we commonly associate with BGLOs.

I don't have a problem with KKPsi, but I DO have an issue if people do not show respect to where their traditions come from. Same applies to BGLOs who are unaware, and do not show respect to, where our traditions come from.

EXACTLY!

When I was first in KKPsi, freshman year, I went to the Southeast District Convention, and this was when I was first exposed to stepping of any kind. The convention that year was in Greensboro, NC, and the first night there was a step show on NC A&T's campus. It was really neat! I had never heard about anything like this from any of the brothers in my chapter. I think that ChaosDST said it best...if there is a KKPsi chapter that is an HBCU, what is wrong with them stepping and exhibiting this kind of behavior? If that's how all the orgs on your campus behave, what precludes KKPsi or any other org. from being allowed to behave this way?

Now, I will say, that not every chapter has steps or calls or signs or other things. I think that the chapters on HBCU campuses pick these things up, then when they go to conventions, they exhibit these behaviors, and other chapters say, "hey, that's really neat, teach us how to do that!" and thus the behavior spreads. But, like I said before, not every chapter picks this up. So I can't tell you any one point along the history of KKPsi where individual chapters started picking this stuff up...it's definitely not a national thing though.

[DGMarie]

I guess I just want to understand how the lack of respect from KKPsi (not all chapters and members) to NPHC.

I don't think anyone can answer that question. It sounds as though you are really disgruntled with them. Again, I would suggest you sit down and talk to them. Perhaps this is all a misunderstanding.

[WCUgirl]

Originally posted by oneninetwotwo
I didn't say that NPHC groups were the sole owners of these things. I guess I just want to understand how the lack of respect from KKPsi (not all chapters and members) to NPHC. We have KKPsi here at my school and there is none of that. All they do is build better bands. Period.

Stemming from ChaosDST, I just want them to repsect the traditions. Don't throw it in my face that you step better than me or your call is cooler because you can't go around at my party of strut at my step shows. That's immature.

If you don't have problems with the KKPsi chapter on your campus doing these things, then where is the problem coming from? I'm sorry, I must not understand the question?

[oneninetwotwo]

It's not on my campus. It's other chapters from other schools. I don't have a problem with it. I just want to know when it emerged and why? The Alpha answered my question. Thanks.

Disgruntled? That's a strong word.