Relations between the Jewish community and GLOs

[aephi alum]

Some of us started discussing this in the Christian org thread, but since there's a (very interesting!) theological debate going on over there... I didn't want to hijack the thread any further.

At my school, in my day, there was something of a split between Hillel and the greek community. Orthodox Jewish men tended not to go greek. Conservative and Reform men often did look into greek life; some kept their options open while others only considered AEPi (which is the only fraternity we had whose membership was predominantly Jewish). Orthodox women were more likely to consider greek life - I had three Orthodox pledge sisters.

The problem lay in the fact that the Orthodox men pretty much ran Hillel. Some Orthodox Jews consider members of the other movements to not truly be Jewish and this was the prevailing attitude among the Orthodox at my school. "We have a problem with non-Orthodox Jews" + "A lot of non-Orthodox Jews are greek" => "We have a problem with the greek community."

Some greek orgs, notably AEPi and AEPhi, did things oriented toward the Jewish community (a break-fast after Yom Kippur, Tay-Sachs testing, etc) and Hillel did promote these things, but I think only reluctantly... the Orthodox wouldn't go.

From people I know who are still in that community, though, I gather that things have changed and Hillel is making efforts to reach out to greeks.

[33girl]

OK, my old boss told me this but it's a long time ago.

What is the difference between Conservative and Reform Judaism? If someone knows, could they do an analogy to Christian denominations?

[Buttonz]

At my school most of the greek Jews are in AEPi, AEPhi or SDT. There are other Jews not in these three organzations, however the only other one that I can think of with a lot of Jews is one of the locals. SDT has a sister on Hillel e-baord, plus we also have a seat on the Hillel e-baord that has nothing to do with this sister. (Meaning we have 2 reps to e-board) and our past president, currently an active alum is working in Hillel. We try to help them out and go to thier functionsand they help us out when needed....like our alumnae brunch will probably be held there There are a mix if diffrent types of Jews, from Orthodox all the way down to "I'm Jewish but practice nothing or close to nothing"

[Greekgrrl]

Washington U. has such a large Jewish percentage student body and popular Greek system that there seems to be little issue. I know Hillel had a Greek shabbat (sp?) last year and the Greek population seems to be pretty evenly spread out among the chapters.

When I was an undergrad the only chapters that weren't predominantly Jewish (that I was aware of) were Theta and Kappa, Theta only because there were a lot of Asian girls, and Kappa because they tended to have the Southern WASP-y girls. Each did, however, have a number of Jewish girls. (The other chapters were Alpha Phi, Pi Phi, AEPhi, and DG.) I'm not sure of the population breakdown these days.

Not being Jewish myself, I couldn't tell you more about the tensions between the Orthodox/Conservative/Reform Jewish students/Greek students and Hillel. Most Greeks that are observant Jews I know did go to Hillel, so again, not much issue there.

(Actually, there wasn't much of an issue with the Christians and Greeks, either, that I know. People at WU tend to be pretty isolationist so there's not a lot of Bible-beating or protesting of Greek life, just the usual 'ew Greek life" from the GDIs)

[Rudey]

Hillel is a national partner with AEPi and AEPhi. I don't know the extent for AEPhi, but I do for AEPi for sure. Also, Chabad does as well and so do groups like Aish. There was even an article about how Chabad on several campuses had done events with AEPi and had even lobbied on their behalf to obtain housing.

AEPi has gone even further than that to lobby for Israel, to develop and sponsor pro-Israel campaigns, to fight anti-semitism. The community has embraced this and if you look at the amount of programming and funding, it is clear that the international fraternity has excellent relations with the Jewish community at ALL levels whether religious, political, or cultural.

-Rudey

[Munchkin03]

At my undergrad, Hillel involvement freshman year was virtually a pipeline to membership in either AEPi or Kappa Alpha Theta (which was majority Jewish there). There were very few Orthodox Jews that I knew personally, or even saw around campus, but they were still friendly with the Greek community.

We had an Orthodox sister...we didn't do much on Friday nights anyway (we usually had our parties and events on Saturdays), so it wasn't as if she was excluded.

[AXORissa]

Rutgers has a high Jewish population, and the Greek system is incredibly Jewish. Although SDT is the only Jewish sorority (and for fraternities we have ZBT and AEPi), most of the other chapters have high Jewish populations. the only two sororities I can think of that werent as Jewish, although they still had Jews, were Gamma Phi and Sig Kap. And Phi Sigma Sigma (but they left campus last year).

Most of the Jews are reform or conservative-- I think SDT had some orthodox, as did we. DG might have also. Those are the three chapters, at the time, that would be accepting. I dont think my chapter now would take an Orthodox girl, since they're big on trying to acheive 100% participation and they do a lot of things on Fridays. (hopefully not because they would be discriminating... the Jewish population of the chapter has gone down since I graduated).

What is the difference between Conservative and Reform Judaism?

there's more forms than those two, its kind of like a spectrum of how religious one is and how much of their life they devote to Judaism. The most religious are the Orthodox, and there's even different spectrum of them. Some wont associate with anyone who isnt like them. Then you have Modern Orthodox who might attend public schools but will adhere to certain styles of dress. Oh, and the Orthodox keep kosher, keep Shabbat holy (Shabbat is our Sabbath-- Friday night at Sundown to Sat night at Sundown), and a bunch of other practices I cant even begin to get into. (this is a VERY simplified version)

Conservative and Reform Jews are similiar in that we dress like "everyone else" (note: some Orthodox DO dress like everyone else, but consider themselves Orthodox because of how they practice. I am trying to sterotype only to make it easier for non-Jews to understand, not to disservice anyone).

I grew up conservative and practice Reform. You wouldn't be able to tell that I was Jewish unless you asked me. Conservatives are more stringent with adhering to Kosher laws and Shabbat rules than Reform Jews. Reform Jews usually dont keep kosher, and have a liberal view of the world (science, less apt to believe G-d as the Bible describes Him). TO be honest, I dont see a huge difference in Conservative and Reform Jews in actual practice. the songs are sung differently, and Reform services tend to have more English than Conservative, which is mostly in Hebrew.

Basically, the differences are not like Christian denominations-- its more of a spectrum in how much you practice and how much you adhere to Jewish law.

I didnt even get to Reconstructionists and other alternative types.. oh vey.

[RACooper]

The relationship with the Jewish student body is much the same as with the Christian student body at UofT..... not so much between the GLOs though.

Currently there is AEPi and Delta Pi located at another university, but they do mix with us on occasion (Delta Pi has mixers with us every year or so). Personally I have noticed some antagonism from AEPi (some directed at me personally) towards some houses. They see themselves as the sole Jewish GLO, and as such all men intrested in joining a GLO should join them..... but the other GLOs don't see it that way.

I'd have to say that UofT has one of the most diverse GLO cultures, and basing your choice of a GLO on relgion, faith, or colour just doesn't play to well up here.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by RACooper
I'd have to say that UofT has one of the most diverse GLO cultures, and basing your choice of a GLO on relgion, faith, or colour just doesn't play to well up here.

Yeah maybe those GLOs should just close down. Considering the fact that the AEPi at UofT is of a good size, healthy, and very involved in the community I would say your statement is baseless.

-Rudey

[Tom Earp]

The HIGH POCROSY of I am Jewish ( Orthadox, Non Orthodox), The Christian, Roman, Anglecan, Luthern, The Islamic, Shiite, or what ever is getting a little thin!

Other Than I am better than thou SUCKS!

Hell, last I heard, you die, dead.!!!!!

I will come back as a danilion! Willow of the whisp!

No, An Ant, so when the GC Gathersings are going on, I can be there to ant them! Get lots of travel miles but not by Delta!

[RACooper]

Originally posted by Rudey
Yeah maybe those GLOs should just close down. Considering the fact that the AEPi at UofT is of a good size, healthy, and very involved in the community I would say your statement is baseless.

-Rudey

They are brand new (1999) and have not made a good impression with most of the girls or guys I have talked to. They don't like the fact that Zeta Beta Tau is also trying to start up (well has been since the early 90s) and the other GLOs accept Jewish members (there alumni advisor actually told me off for this).

What doesn't play with people up here is the constant referal to faith, religion, colour... whatever. That is why they haven't "meshed" with the UofT GLO culture and Alpha Phi Alpha (1999) has. Yes APhiA is a black fraternity but they don't make it an issue and neither do we.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by RACooper
They are brand new (1999) and have not made a good impression with most of the girls or guys I have talked to. They don't like the fact that Zeta Beta Tau is also trying to start up (well has been since the early 90s) and the other GLOs accept Jewish members (there alumni advisor actually told me off for this).

What doesn't play with people up here is the constant referal to faith, religion, colour... whatever. That is why they haven't "meshed" with the UofT GLO culture and Alpha Phi Alpha (1999) has. Yes APhiA is a black fraternity but they don't make it an issue and neither do we.

You make little sense.

They are brand new (1999) and have not made a good impression with most of the girls or guys I have talked to.

So brand new has something to do with what exactly? Oh ok. And so your impression of what others say is the end all, be all? Oh ok. And in terms of size, how big is your chapter and how big are they?

They don't like the fact that Zeta Beta Tau is also trying to start up (well has been since the early 90s) and the other GLOs accept Jewish members (there alumni advisor actually told me off for this).

In other words, you're saying you're not an AEPi but know how they feel. You've moved beyond sympathy towards empathy. Oh, ok.

What doesn't play with people up here is the constant referal to faith, religion, colour... whatever. That is why they haven't "meshed" with the UofT GLO culture and Alpha Phi Alpha (1999) has. Yes APhiA is a black fraternity but they don't make it an issue and neither do we.

I don't speak for, of, or on APhiA because I do not know them. But you've spoken like a pro so far, so I guess I'll just say "oh ok" to you again.

Now last time I checked, the guys in the UofT AEPi chapter were great. They were a large chapter given the fact that they were recent. They are highly decorated every year when it comes to awards. They have given the international fraternity several travelling consultants already. They are highly involved in the community and donate money and time and even did a holocaust rememberance ceremony there.

-Rudey
--Regardless of what you say and what you claim to know, they exist, they thrive, and those results obviously mean they are in demand even though they don't "mesh".

[Rudey]

Originally posted by Tom Earp
The HIGH POCROSY of I am Jewish ( Orthadox, Non Orthodox), The Christian, Roman, Anglecan, Luthern, The Islamic, Shiite, or what ever is getting a little thin!

Other Than I am better than thou SUCKS!

Hell, last I heard, you die, dead.!!!!!

I will come back as a danilion! Willow of the whisp!

No, An Ant, so when the GC Gathersings are going on, I can be there to ant them! Get lots of travel miles but not by Delta!

What was the point of this Tom? I'm really getting tired of some of the crap you put up old man. I'd be able to tell you that your post lacked intelligence if it wasn't written like Nell on crack. Just keep your mouth shut because it's not as cute as you think.

-Rudey

[aephi alum]

Originally posted by Rudey
Hillel is a national partner with AEPi and AEPhi. I don't know the extent for AEPhi, but I do for AEPi for sure.

Meaning what exactly? Does AEPi's national office say to each chapter, you have to co-sponsor a certain amount of programming with Hillel each year? AEPhi doesn't have that level of association with Hillel - our chapter was never told that we had to actively co-sponsor programming with Hillel or anything like that. Most of the Jewish-oriented things we did was either by ourselves or co-sponsored with AEPi or somebody else; Hillel's only participation was some advertising. (We got in good with the administrator )

[Rudey]

Originally posted by aephi alum
Meaning what exactly? Does AEPi's national office say to each chapter, you have to co-sponsor a certain amount of programming with Hillel each year? AEPhi doesn't have that level of association with Hillel - our chapter was never told that we had to actively co-sponsor programming with Hillel or anything like that. Most of the Jewish-oriented things we did was either by ourselves or co-sponsored with AEPi or somebody else; Hillel's only participation was some advertising. (We got in good with the administrator )

I know AEPhi is a national partner. I don't know your involvement and to what extent.

We are strongly encouraged to have programming with Hillel. A lot of the top Hillel board members are AEPis. Also there is a lot of funding made available to do things along with Hillel. Nationally you can ask for grants for certain programming and receive it at the local level. There are Friday night dinners, parties, break-fasts, seders, political talks across different spectrums...everything on every single level.

In general, a lot of AEPi chapters do rush folks at Hillel. A lot of hillels are also run by AEPi members and even their executive directors are often given honorary initiations. It goes into even greater involvement than that.

This doesn't mean that AEPi is an extension of Hillel. It never was and never will be. AEPi does Jewish programming because it is "The Jewish Fraternity". Go to the website. Look at the very top of the page. But AEPi caters to what its brothers want and usually along with the responsibility we hold to the community, we also have our own social programming. We do stuff with AEPhi, SDT, DPhiE, or whomever else. On my campus, we didn't have those sororities but AEPi had its date nights, it had its formal, it had its raunchy parties, it competed and did well in both IM sports and sorority competitions, and it also did programming with both Hillel and Chabad (phoneathons, community service, friday night dinners, seders, and sponsoring political speakers). This was my campus and not every campus. Some schools don't have a single Jewish student and the AEPi chapter reflects that. Some schools are not too close to Hillel for whatever reason, but most are and most manage to rush kids who go to Hillel.

Edited to add: AEPi has seen a surge in numbers and chapters in the last 5 years. A lot of it is attributed to the deeper involvement in the Jewish community.

-Rudey