Intersting debate on Gretzky vs. Jordan

moe.ron · #1 09-16-2003, 04:42 AM

The debate was who was more dominating in their respective sports.

I would go with Gretzky. Discuss among yourself.

KSigkid · #2 09-16-2003, 05:54 AM

Gretzky - while Jordan was great, Gretzky was beyond anything the NHL had ever seen before.

Jordan was the greatest NBAer in history, but one can make the case that he wasn't even the most dominating NBA player for his time - Wilt Chamberlain caused the league to change its rules he was so dominating.

When you look at Gretzky's numbers (92 goals in a season, 163 assists one season, 215 points in a season) and watch tape of the way he played and the things he did - it's no contest.

Now, one may say that part of it was the teams he was on; indeed, he played with Messier, Kurri, and other great players, but I'd say he made them even better with his own play.

In my mind, it's Gretzky, although both were the greatest their sports have ever seen.

moe.ron · #3 09-16-2003, 05:56 AM

I belived that you need that teammate for a great player to go even higher. Gretzky has his Messier and Kur, Jordan had his Pippen, Armstrong and Kerr.

Imthachamp · #4 09-16-2003, 06:52 AM

Lebron James

Thrillhouse · #5 09-16-2003, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by KSigkid
Gretzky - while Jordan was great, Gretzky was beyond anything the NHL had ever seen before.

Jordan was the greatest NBAer in history, but one can make the case that he wasn't even the most dominating NBA player for his time - Wilt Chamberlain caused the league to change its rules he was so dominating.

When you look at Gretzky's numbers (92 goals in a season, 163 assists one season, 215 points in a season) and watch tape of the way he played and the things he did - it's no contest.

Now, one may say that part of it was the teams he was on; indeed, he played with Messier, Kurri, and other great players, but I'd say he made them even better with his own play.

In my mind, it's Gretzky, although both were the greatest their sports have ever seen.

Agreed

It seems highly unlikely that anyone will do what Gretzky did.

DeltaSigStan · #6 09-16-2003, 08:59 AM

You gotta figure though: Jordan came into a league rich with tradition; the Boston Celtic teams of the 60s, The battles between Jordan and Bird, the Lakers teams of the 70s. He built a marketing empire from the game, and while he should be given credit for being one if not THE best players in league history, he still didn't transcend his sport the way Gretzky did.

You have to understand, in the 80s, NO ONE in California let alone SoCal liked hockey. Sure there were some teams, but it wasn't until Gretzky came to LA that he built the fan base that finally reached the other side of the country. If not for Wayne, there wouldn't be nearly as many hockey fans out here as there are now. I dare say: he helped create the Sharks and Ducks. And in his early years, Wayne was unstoppable. He holds basically every offensive record in history. Jordan can't say the same.

bethany1982 · #7 09-16-2003, 09:35 AM

Jordan will be surpassed someday. I believe that there are already a few players in the NBA who are on their way to being as good or better than he was. I don't know a thing about hockey...

KSig RC · #8 09-16-2003, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KSigkid
When you look at Gretzky's numbers (92 goals in a season, 163 assists one season, 215 points in a season) and watch tape of the way he played and the things he did - it's no contest.

And Collin knows more than anyone, that numbers tell a lot of the story for me . . .

... and Gretzky's are ludicrous. More assists than anyone else has points. Single-season numbers that no one could possibly reach in today's game. A Cup run in LA, for Christ's sake, without the same star power as the Edminton teams.

Jordan's numbers are amazing, but Gretzky's are video-game quality.

Think about this: Gretzky changed the way the game was played behind the net, and his creativity with the puck lead to unparalleled scoring numbers. So, a few years ago, what did the NHL try to do to increase scoring in today's game?

They increased the amount of room behind the nets.

I think that's a huge tip of the cap to the Great One. Plus, WG Hockey on the N64 was much sweeter than Bulls v. Blazers.

CC1GC · #9 09-16-2003, 05:03 PM

Actually, you guys are wrong.

Gretz' had 62 records, but was he the fastest player? No. Was he the best stick handler? No, he wasn't. He was not the most talented player in the history of the NHL....look at the legendary Bobby Orr, or maybe Lemieux, who had the best points-per-average of all time...hahahah he scored a goal the first time he ever touched the puck, and was probably the most dominant scoring threat in the history of the game....For all his worth, Lemieux wasn't as technically proficient as Gretsky. No one could see the play develop as well as Wayne and it his integral knowledge of the game - the fact he's been right 99% of the time - is what makes him the best.

You can ask the top 100 sports experts of all time and i'm sure everyone will have a different answer to this question. The deciding vote in my opinion, goes to the reputations of each and what was accomplished off the court/ice - which goes to Wayne.

Imthachamp · #10 09-16-2003, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CC1GC
Actually, you guys are wrong.

Gretz' had 62 records, but was he the fastest player? No. Was he the best stick handler? No, he wasn't. He was not the most talented player in the history of the NHL....look at the legendary Bobby Orr, or maybe Lemieux, who had the best points-per-average of all time...hahahah he scored a goal the first time he ever touched the puck, and was probably the most dominant scoring threat in the history of the game....For all his worth, Lemieux wasn't as technically proficient as Gretsky. No one could see the play develop as well as Wayne and it his integral knowledge of the game - the fact he's been right 99% of the time - is what makes him the best.

You can ask the top 100 sports experts of all time and i'm sure everyone will have a different answer to this question. The deciding vote in my opinion, goes to the reputations of each and what was accomplished off the court/ice - which goes to Wayne.

gretzky was pretty fast....

CC1GC · #11 09-16-2003, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Imthachamp
gretzky was pretty fast....

blah, orr would skate circles around him.

KSig RC · #12 09-16-2003, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CC1GC
blah, orr would skate circles around him.

blah, lemeiux was always hurt

blah, orr didn't put up the insane numbers

blah, rocket richard didn't involve his teammates

blah, bobby hull couldn't pass a bike in his car

blah blah blah - say what you want about the man, but no matter what, he put up the numbers - and if he wasn't the fastest, wasn't the strongest, didn't see the play the best, whatever . . . doesn't that make the numbers MORE impressive?

Lemeiux was on his way to breaking the single-season points record on one occasion, but he DOESN'T PLAY EIGHTY GAMES! That cannot be overemphasized.

CC1GC · #13 09-16-2003, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KSig RC
blah, lemeiux was always hurt

blah, orr didn't put up the insane numbers

blah, rocket richard didn't involve his teammates

blah, bobby hull couldn't pass a bike in his car

blah blah blah - say what you want about the man, but no matter what, he put up the numbers - and if he wasn't the fastest, wasn't the strongest, didn't see the play the best, whatever . . . doesn't that make the numbers MORE impressive?

Lemeiux was on his way to breaking the single-season points record on one occasion, but he DOESN'T PLAY EIGHTY GAMES! That cannot be overemphasized.

Fuck rob, gretz' wasn't a target like lemieux! I think the only time gretz' got hurt was by suter on the only hit he ever took.

Also, how the hell you can compare the greatest skater ever to wayne? Orr only played until he was 28, his knees got the shit kicked out of them because that was the style in the 70s.

Fuck, let's keep things in perspective...he was a defencemen, he wasn't gonna tally 200 points. I think you're taking that for granted because he's in the most underated position.

CC1GC · #14 09-16-2003, 11:11 PM

Bam, i did find it....

http://hockeyabstract.homestead.com/51203B.html

HAHAHAHA, i'm right, you wrong....the best stat in hockey is held by the best player.

KSig RC · #15 09-17-2003, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CC1GC
Bam, i did find it....

http://hockeyabstract.homestead.com/51203B.html

HAHAHAHA, i'm right, you wrong....the best stat in hockey is held by the best player.

haha, ok, fair enough -

and gretzky didn't 'not get hit' because he wasn't a target - watch some old footage, and he just flows through traffic, spins away from hits, etc. His head was up but it was like he had frigging radar, he avoided hits that well.

You're right though - hard to compare eras, same quandry in baseball and every other sport.