Holloween

[Eclipse]

I think Disgogoddess took us to school on that one!! She broke it down! ((cyber high five))

I celebrated Holloween as a child because of the free candy--plain and simple. Neither I, nor my parents ever associated it with anything sinister or evil. That being said, I do believe, like Maya Angelou said "When you know better, you do better." Now that I understand fully the roots of the celebration I can't look at it the same way.

Let me add a twist of sorts to Theresa2000's question....What about those churches/school systems, etc. who go on and on about the inappropriateness of Holloween, but have "Fall Harvest Festivals" with pumpkins, candy give-a-ways, costumes, etc. (everything but the witches and ghosts). Are they just finding a 'sneaky' way to celebrate Holloween without calling it that?

[AKA2D '91]

I, too, have heard that many do not celebrate Halloween because it "depicts" the rising of the dead and so on and so forth. I was brought up a Baptist, then Methodist, now I am a Baptist. I "celebrated" Halloween as a child, basically because my birthday is in Ocober (20, hint, hint) . Anyway, my parents always centered my parties around that time...

But, as a child, my parents never said that we could not go to carnivals, haunted houses or any of that.

Also, many Baptists (blacks) here in Louisiana, especially south Louisiana frown upon Mardi Gras. This holiday comes from the Catholic faith.

So to each his or her own.

[lluvmook98]

Actually I am Catholic and the "celebration" of Mardi Gras isn't universal to the Church. It is associated with Catholics in the south particularly Louisiana because of the French/Creole thing. Catholics begin the Easter season the week of Ash Wednesday (Mardi Gras, the day before Ash Wednesday, means fat Tuesday in French) it was celebrated as a last day of "pigging out" before the Lenten season when many observant Catholics would fast. But the modern impression of Mardi Gras has nothing to do with the Catholic church.
I am sorry to seem so anal but as a Black Catholic I am used to people criticizing and I saw this as one of those times that people might use to shake their heads at us "sad mis-directed black folk".

Sorry!

[lluvmook98]

That was really off topic. OOOH! My bad. See what happens when you get on the defensive.

[Discogoddess]

<<What about those churches/school systems, etc. who go on and on about the inappropriateness of Holloween, but have "Fall Harvest Festivals" with pumpkins, candy give-a-ways, costumes, etc. (everything but the witches and ghosts). Are they just finding a 'sneaky' way to celebrate Holloween without calling it that?>>

That's exactly what the early Church did-incorporate the some of the symbols of the whole fall harvest/spirit worship thing and call it something else. I don't understand this. If parents and churches don't want their kids doing something, they should explain why and stick to it. Not come up with "alternatives" that are really just that same thing they disagree with, albeit with a different name. My church has a "Holy Ghost Party." Now, if the idea of a holy "ghost" doesn't scare kids (as it did me, when I was little), then a goblin sure as H won't!




[This message has been edited by Discogoddess (edited October 05, 2000).]

[Teresa2000]

I see that I really started something with the RU-486 post. I really enjoyed reading all the replys. Its nice to know that blacks are really thinking about these serious issues. However, I would like to ask you another question; how do you feel about holloween? I have Baptist friends who say that they were not allowed to celebrate holloween as children because it was satanic. This is the first that I have ever heard of this, what do you think?
-Teresa

[Discogoddess]

HALLOWEEN has its origins in the pagan, pre-Christian traditions of many European cultures, which thought of this time as an occasion to scare off evil spirits and honor the spirits of their dead ancestors. Years later, these types of practices were enveloped into the Christian tradition by church leaders who, after trying to get new converts to drop their old ways and failing, decided to incorporate these customs into the Christian experience. Thus, the custom of All Saints Day was created, a time to honor the saints of the church. The day before that was named All Hallows Eve. The name morphed into Halloween after some time.

The whole idea of wearing costumes, witches, goblins, spiders, skeletons-all that developed here in early America as folks tried to make this day a more kid- and family-friendly thing. Previously, Halloween was considered a grown-up occasion. Bobbing for apples, costume parades, and trick-or-treating grew out of this push to make Halloween less adult, spirit, pagan-driven and more palatable to rural, conservative, Puritan-type Americans.

For some, the pagan practices surrounding the day never stopped, and I believe the Wiccan religion considers this time period sacred, as the earth is changing from one season to the next (same principle behind the celebration of Easter, with the bunnies, lilies, etc.-newness of the earth. It's just that the Christian church incorporated these things as symbols of Christ, like the lilies). Others try to call up spirits of ancestors while others try to ward off bad ones. In the Mexican culture, Halloween is celebrated as El Dia de Muertes (Day of the Dead), a time to gather with family to honor their deceased relatives by visiting their graves, baking special treats and so on (someone with more depth and breadth in this, please correct me if I've mispoken).

Personally, while I don't think the holiday is demonic, I don't celebrate it either. I think it's a very potent time, with folks calling on spirits, and choose to leave that alone.

I've gone on long enough, but I'm sure there are resources online that can give you a more detailed historical view on this holiday.

[Shalom2U]

~Shalom Everybody

Discogoddess, you have me shaking my head and ROTFL!

As a child, my parents taught us the principles behind Halloween so we didn't celebrate nor participate in any school events on that day. Although we didn't have a problem with it---we did have a problem with people either knocking on our door all night (my mom even tacked nice messages on the front door) or having to turn all the lights in the house off around 6:30ish for the rest of the night as to appear that no one was home.

I have taught my son the pagan orgins of Halloween, Easter and believe it or not...Christmas. I have had the opportunity to discuss these pagan-soltice events with several "practing witches" who matter-of-factly speak of these events as days they feel Christians have no right to celebrate!
Fine, I say, have your events.

As for my household, we don't treat October 31 any differently then October 3, October 19, or any other day in October for that matter. It goes just as it came. And I don't substitute that day with any Church event to appease my son. I have begun to use that day to pray for those who are worshipping satan as god -- eyes to be open to the truth and come to know the power of Jesus Christ.

I don't use the term "Easter" nor practice the traditional things associated with that day---instead, my family observes the Pesach
(Passover) because that's what Jesus celebrated the night he was betrayed.

When it comes to Christmas...I'll leave that alone...I come in Shalom!

Finally, on a personal note/question...Why do we Christians refer to the Holy Spirit as the Holy Ghost? The Greek word is "pnuema"...I wish someone would do a Hebrew/Greek research on Ghost...last year it caused my son to ask many questions.

Shalom

[LadyAKA]

Look WHY yall done took it there? I celebrate all holidays, maybe sometimes out of ignorance, now I am gonna have to take it to the church and consult the pastor. Dang yall just took the fun out of Halloween, gosh can't I do anything now-a-days without it being satanic.... look I try to find the fun and familiness in these events, all holidays, and please don't tell me Christmas is not for Christians .... oh man oh man. And you know I can't wait to watch the scary movies on OCT 31th... yall done got me all screw faced over here in NYC. DANG!

[MIDWESTDIVA]

I like Shalom2U no longer celebrate Halloween, Easter or Christmas. I was raised in the Baptist church, but changed to a non-denominational church while in high school. In my new church I learned about the pagan beginings of these holidays and also the transition from Saturday to Sunday as the day of worship.

It has been rather difficult explaining to people that I don't celebrate these days but I am still very much a Christian woman. I still buy gifts for my family, not so much because I love Christmas and what it stands for, but simply because I love my family and I respect the fact that their beliefs are different from my own.

I'm not hating on anyone that celebrates these holidays. We could go around and around about what the Bible says and still not get anywhere. I do believe that the Bible says that loving your neighbor is the most important thing we can do. So I try to do this to the best of my ability. (I don't have a Bible here at work to look up this exact scripture. Someone feel free to jump in at any time on this).

So on that note, I love all my sisters and brothers out there. Have a great day!



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We often give our enemies the means for our own destruction.

Aesop c550 BC

[Teresa2000]

Pagan doesn't necessarily mean the same as demonic or satanic.

-Teresa

[LadyAKA]

Guess I should have clarified... I wrote satanic and should have said not coming from God, my Christian God! But thanks for your input.

Sisterly

[onesavvydiva]

Hello all, I have been out of the picture for a minute, but I did want to comment on this.

I was never allowed to celebrate Hallowen as a child. My mother and step-father are Pastors, and I was always taught that anything revolving around ghosts, goblins, witches, etc. was not only carnal, but it was satanic. I never understood this when I was little, I just thought that it was just another wrench that they were throwing into my mix to take the fun out of things.

Instead I attended "Hallelujah Night" at the church, where we were allowed to dress up as Bible characters and we watched movies, and got candy and played games. Of course this always seemed kinda bland because you know there were always like 50 million Mary's and like 100 million Jesus', Moses, Abrahams. I appreciate it now though, now that I know more about the origin of Halloween, I don't think that I would let my own (unborn) children participate in the normal activities. But I think that I would explain to them in depth, so they could understand...exactly why it is that they can't participate, so that they know and they don't just think Mommy's being mean!

Peace and blessings
Diva

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'Cause I'm a woman,
Phenomenally
Phenomenal Woman
That's me

Maya Angelou

[Teresa2000]

any pro-holloween people out there?

-Teresa

[AKAtude]

I was allowed to celebrate Halloween as a child. Like Eclipse said, I did it mostly for the free candy and the chance to dress up in costumes with my friends. Over time, we (my parents and I) began to learn the true meaning behind this holiday, and it began to lose its appeal.

Several years ago, the neighborhood association where I live decided to have a "block party" every Halloween. Instead of the kids going trick or treating, they now go to the neighborhood park/community center and are given candy, hot dogs, drinks, etc. and residents may donate if they wish. The kids seem to enjoy this just as much as going door to door to receive candy.

I asked my fiance if we are blessed with children one day, should we allow them to celebrate Halloween since we are more informed now than we were back then. He doesn't really think we should restrict them from celebrating. So, the verdict is still out...