Damon Dash And John McWherter

[Blackwatch]

For those of you with HBO, Bob Costas has a talk show called "Off the Record" where he interviews various celebrities. He has interviewed Ice Cube and Ashanti earlier this season. About a week ago, he interviewed John McWherter, an African American professor of Linguistics at Cal-Berkeley (& author of Loosing the Race a book where he claims that African Americans are not acheiving academically because of a culture of anti-intellectualism in our homes) and Damon Dash (President of Roc-a-fella Records). During the interview, McWherter was critical of some of the images of hip-hop, saying that they were not representative of progresive humanity. Dash questioned McWherter's Blackness by stating that he (Dash) couldn't understand how a true black man could say something like that about hip-hop, unless he didn't understand hip-hop. Dash went on to say that hip-hop was the authentic voice of black america (He actually said that hip-hop was the true voice of Black America) and for a Black person to not "feel" hip-hop was showing that they were not in tune with black America.


Question, Why is it that we live in a culture where people are affraid to think critically? Instead of responding to Dr. McWherter's statements, he attacks him personally, a big flaw in any logical debate. Though I disagree with a great deal of Dr. McWherter's views, I think he has a point about anti-intellectualism. I think that when ever you hear some rapper talk about "hatin' " what they are really talking about is the fact that they do not want to defend their actions to a community of people that they are responsible to to nurture the art of hip-hop. They don't want the black community to become critcal about the images because the truth hurts. Someone in another thread talked about how we as black people are good at putting on a front for the outside, while still decaying on the inside. I think this is the case here. Also, I think that Dash didn't really have a plausible argument for questioning the blackness of Dr. McWherter. Maybe because we have ceased to train our young people in the art and science of debate and critical conversation. But, until we produce a generation of critical thinkers, critical of post-modern definitions of identity and meaning, critical of capitalistic norms and religious hegemony becoming synonymous (think about prosperity preaching and "Bling-Bling" materialism and note the similarities), and critical of the social order in general and white supremacy in particular, we will continue to see representations of blackness as synonymous with ignorance, hedonism, and nihilism.


What do you think?
Blackwatch!!!!!!

[enlightenment06]

Blackwatch it's good to have you back. No time to reply now but will swing back later

[DoggyStyle82]

Great post Blackwatch!!!

I too, watched the same debate and Damon Dash continued to show the buffoonery of the anti-intellectualism and inherent self destruction. Damon Dash came to a battle of wits and proved himself to be unarmed. Furthermore, he hurt the cause of those who don't side with McWhorter. But if you were an uninformed Caucasian, a fence-sitter, or even a Hip-Hop culture apologist, you were left with no choice but to side with Mr. McWhorter by default. I, like you Bro. Blackwatch, am not a fan of McWhorter, but all he had to do to prove his point was to simply let Damon Dash speak of a music, lifestyle, and culture that he, quite simply, is incapable of defending in any cogent or coherent way.

Dash lost the culture war immediately by showing up dressed like a clown while others were dressed professionally. He was straight out of Jerry Springer while the others came to listen and learn. Funny thing is that Dash comes from a middle class family and attended private school. He is a poster boy for the heart of McWhorters' argument. He traded in his middle class values and intellect to dumb himself down and immerse himself in a culture of money, cash, drugs, and hoes and to basically pimp the minds of impressionable youth. Its a great hustle for some individuals but the overall effect is detrimental.

[The Original Ape]

but it seems like something I saw on C-Span the other night. One of the producers of a record label, who happened to be a republican, was speaking to a crowd of conservative college republicans.

Do you know if they will re-air the Dash show?

[FeeFee]

I saw the show too, and all I could do was SMH @ Damon.

SMH for his wardrobe, which IMO was totally inappropriate.

SMH for the words that were coming out of his mouth, which proved Mr. McWherter's point.

[Kimmie1913]

Originally posted by The Original Ape
but it seems like something I saw on C-Span the other night. One of the producers of a record label, who happened to be a republican, was speaking to a crowd of conservative college republicans.

Do you know if they will re-air the Dash show?

The new episode airs on Fridays and is re run during the week. Unfortnately, the Dash show was from the Friday before last. This week's episode features Hilary Clinton.

About three weeks ago he had Jay Z as a guest as well.

(see On the Record with Bob Costas

I felt the same way about the discussion that Blackwatch and DoogyStyle2 felt. Because I disagree with McWhorter on many things I was disappointed that Dash was so ill equipped to respond.

[Im_just_me]

I haven't seen the show, but personally, I think they got the wrong someone to debate against the good doctor. Why couldn't they have gotten someone who can per-se "straddle the fence" like P. Diddy. While he is hip-hop to the core, he is also a smart and savvy businessman who know how to dress and act approriately for every sitution.

[blackwatch06]

Doggeystyle hit the nail on the head with the middle classness of Damon Dash. He and His cousin, Darren Dash (Who is frat) founded roc-a-fella records while they were attending the University of Southern California in the early 1990's. Darren Dash spoke to the youth at a Youth leadrship conference my chapter sponsored about 2 years ago. Darren is also the CEO and founder of a internet company that has contracted with several government agencies to help close the digital divide in the inner cities. He coined the phrase "digital divide" and met with Bill Clinton to get the nation to look at the issues behind it. Anyway, Damon is just another Black man blinded by the money afforded to anyone in our commnity that is willing to entertain white America with our pain.

Think about it, when "Amos and Andy" were big, the NAACP protested the show, when "Birth of a Nation" debuted in the 1920's, the NAACP protested that as well. Black people have always been critical of the community's popular image, and rightfully so. When we live in a white supremacist, capitalist society, the popular image of any minority plays a big role in the opportunities that will be afforded to them. Right now I am in a program with the local school district here where I teach social studies to 9th graders who are deemed special ed (read bad black boys) due to in a not so small part the image that many of their (white women) teachers had of black boys from what they saw in the media. Of course this is unfair and shouldn't be the sole responsibility of popular artists, but this is just the reality. White people (due to segregation) associate minorities with the images that they see in the media. If the image a teacher has of black people is that of violent, undisciplined, and ignorant people, then what types of expectations will she have for young Tyrone when he walks into her class? I have talked to teachers who pretty much believe that black kids have too many social problems to learn in a normal school environment. There are programs here that specifically try to get the few high achieving black students in the high schools to try to show the majority of the black students here that reading, writing, an arithmatic are not things that only "white kids " do (I have actually had conversations with classrooms full of black boys who have voiced this sentiment, just 2 months ago, amazing ). Of course, the image of hip-hop is not solely to blame for this, but I think that it has a major role in the perpetuation of the image of "authentic blackness" (if there is such a thing) as being inarticulate, hedonistic, and mysogynistic.

Speaking of reality, I wonder what reality is Dash talking about being portrayed in the lyrics of songs like "Excuse Me Miss" where Jay Z talks about buying "Crystal" and "yellow ice" for this woman? I wonder what reality is being portrayed by the whole "state property" thing? Sure, there are disproportionate numbers of our black men in prison, but to glorify it as a rite of passage so to speak is definately a perception that appeals to the fetishistic gazes of the 80% white audience that makes Roc-a-fella records most of their money anyway. White audiences are uncomfortable with black empowerment, just as with the minstrel shows in the 1800's, black destrution reminds them of their superior status in society. I have visited family members, friends, and just youth in general in prison and one thing that becomes apparent after a few months locked up is that prison is a dumb place to end up, and we should be working towards making the prisons empty, not filling them up. One friend (a former gang banger) told me specifially to tell kids to " be wise and use your time to develop your self-image and self discipline because when you occupy your time with foolish aspirations of being rich at all cost (or the easy way by 'hustlin' '), your judgement becomes cloudy and you end up making destructive choices". This was coming from a man that bragged about being in a gang, similar to many of the young people I work with now, because he saw the gang image as cool and "authentically black" from watching videos and movies. The sad thing about it is he attended a private high school and Howard University for a year with a bright future ahead of him and thought he wasn't "being real" if he wasn't trying to "hustle" .

To be critical of these images is not "hatin' ", but in a longline of community accoutability, it is holdin' you accountable to the community from which you first learned of and honed your skills in the crafts of rapping and hip-hop.


Blackwatch!!!!!!

[ripdj44]

I saw the program and I think that Damon Dash played into the stereotype that outsiders have of not only hip-hop artists but black men in general. We as black men will never get the respect we deserve until prominent figures in our community, such as Damon Dash, stop playing into this stereotype.

[enlightenment06]

I feel as though what has needed to be said has been said for the most part. Thank you Blackwatch, for posting some of what I already thought. I started a thread like this two years ago on Blackplanet.com in the News & Politics forum. It is still has the highest amount of posts in the forum. This "culture of ignorance" is one of the reasons why we need a Black Cultural Revolution.

[darling1]

I was not able to see the Bob Costas program. When it airs again, I hope someone will post it on this forum.


From a general standpoint I find it continuously self destructive when we portray ourselves as ignorant. We are afraid to think critically because it requires work and accountability to ourselves. Many of us I believe are not ready for that type of responsibility. Too many of us are just down right lazy and shiftless.

Damon Dash's comments say to me that he is quite comfortable in his ignorance and really didn't have a leg to stand on, as many of you have mentioned. He was probably embarrassed but in his effort to "keep it real" he chose to conduct himself in a very urban fashion rather than conduct himself with the sense that God and his parents gave him. There comes a point in time when we have to start thinking critically and truly making 'power' moves if we are truly going to progress. Eventually bling-bling and cristal are going to become blase and folks will need to start thinking about building legacies. Dash and others like him I don't think ready for that.

When will the minstrel shows truly end??

[Steeltrap]

Originally posted by darling1
I was not able to see the Bob Costas program. When it airs again, I hope someone will post it on this forum.


From a general standpoint I find it continuously self destructive when we portray ourselves as ignorant. We are afraid to think critically because it requires work and accountability to ourselves. Many of us I believe are not ready for that type of responsibility. Too many of us are just down right lazy and shiftless.

Damon Dash's comments say to me that he is quite comfortable in his ignorance and really didn't have a leg to stand on, as many of you have mentioned. He was probably embarrassed but in his effort to "keep it real" he chose to conduct himself in a very urban fashion rather than conduct himself with the sense that God and his parents gave him. There comes a point in time when we have to start thinking critically and truly making 'power' moves if we are truly going to progress. Eventually bling-bling and cristal are going to become blase and folks will need to start thinking about building legacies. Dash and others like him I don't think ready for that.

When will the minstrel shows truly end??

Perhaps Mr. Dash acts like that because too many of us (not all) demand our public figures to "keep it real."
IMO, that's why somebody like Allen Iverson is revered among some in our community while someone like Grant Hill is reviled

[enlightenment06]

Originally posted by Steeltrap
Perhaps Mr. Dash acts like that because too many of us (not all) demand our public figures to "keep it real."
IMO, that's why somebody like Allen Iverson is revered among some in our community while someone like Grant Hill is reviled

Basically

Why can't Will Smith get the same love as Jay-Z? Shame I tell you

[Steeltrap]

Originally posted by enlightenment06
Basically

Why can't Will Smith get the same love as Jay-Z? Shame I tell you

First of all, I think parents are the ultimate role model.
Having said that, if I had a son and he was admiring entertainment figures, I'd much rather him admire someone like Will Smith, who appears to be a good husband and father, than Jay-Z, although Jay-Z isn't nearly as gauche a figure as say, Master P.

[enlightenment06]

Originally posted by Steeltrap
First of all, I think parents are the ultimate role model.
Having said that, if I had a son and he was admiring entertainment figures, I'd much rather him admire someone like Will Smith, who appears to be a good husband and father, than Jay-Z, although Jay-Z isn't nearly as gauche a figure as say, Master P.

Leave it to a soror to make me run to a dictionary to find out just what she's talking about. Thanks for expanding my vocabulary.