Is this fair??

bucutie02 · #1 07-13-2003, 07:34 PM

This is about my summer school class that I just finished.

On the syllabus, the professor said that the midterm was worth 40%, the final exam 50% and the homework average 10%.

Well anyways, I made an 88 on the midterm. I think only 8 people got a grade higher than me- most of the class failed. On the final exam I made an 89. My homeworks were okay, but not great. Anyway, I end up making a B in the class, not a B+, just a B.

I wanted an A, but oh well I thought.

Now, this is what I am really MAD about

..........

A fellow classmate of mine made a 45 on the midterm, a 90 on the final exam, and her homework grades were very similar to mine. She ended up making a B- for the semester grade. To me, it is obvious that he curved her grade, and by the looks of other people, he curved theirs as well. I am upset because it seems as if though he didnt curve mine, where I could have maybe made an A with the same curve.

I was really upset and told him what I just typed. He replied and said.....
"Given the overall performance of the group your final exam is around top of
C+ -- bottom of B- . With your good performance on midterm but rather
average on the final I gave you B grade.

The person you are talking about got C on midterm and B- on final. But her
"PROGRESS" is relatively bigger. Therefore I put motre emphasis on the
final grade. I told in the class after the final that my approach will be
like this -- not mechanical application of the formula .4*Midterm+.5*Final=..."

I never heard him say that he was not going to use the mechanical application of the midterm being 40% and the final 50%.

I emailed him and told him that I didnt believe it was fair to give someone a B- when they made a 45 on the midterm, while I got high B's on both exams and made a B, which is only a few points away from the person that made a 45. He has yet to respond to that email.

Am I wasting my time arguing with him, should I take this to a higher level if he doesnt do anything?

I just dont think its fair..... I might have had a better chance if I had failed my midterm, and gotten an A on the final (which i almost did, i was one point away).

He says I got a C+ on the final, but it shows as an 89, which is where he might have curved, but even with everyone else's curved grade on the final, the semester average for other people doesnt add up to what he gave them.

Here is a link to the webpage, just click under "teaching" and then you can access the midterm and final exam grades.

http://www.uh.edu/~vvolosov/

texas*princess · #2 07-13-2003, 07:44 PM

AGH!

That makes me so mad!!!

I would definately be upset if that happened to me!! I think you should talk to him about it!

If that doesn't work, what I would do is go up the chain to the next person (like the dean or whatever).

But that's just me

It definately is just WRONG that you would have been better off if you hadn't worked hard the entire semester and failed your midterm and just studied for the final!

James · #3 07-13-2003, 11:15 PM

I can understand you being upset.

It looks like he gave her the gift of a few points and graded you true.

I am not sure if you have any real room to argue. It just looks like was trying to give some kids a break so they wouldn't get lower grades such as C's or D's but didn't figure the kids with B's really needed one.

DeltAlum · #4 07-13-2003, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by James
It just looks like was trying to give some kids a break so they wouldn't get lower grades such as C's or D's but didn't figure the kids with B's really needed one.

So...

Is that fair is her question. I don't think so. Unless there are really extenuating circumstances, I think profesors have to be consistant -- just like parents are supposed to.

Gulp.

James · #5 07-13-2003, 11:33 PM

Parents are fair? Damn I missed that memo and meeting lol

AchtungBaby80 · #6 07-14-2003, 12:30 AM

No, no, no. That's not right at all. If the professor said on the syllabus that the midterm and final were worth a set percentage of the grade, then he should have stuck to that. No fudging for people he thought needed it, even if they did. See, this is what makes me mad...it looks like he "helped" the students who got lower grades but did nothing for the ones who got decent ones (i.e. B's). He probably thinks anyone ought to be happy with a B, but if he helps some students out, he ought to help them all! Screw "progress"...does your school have an ombud you can talk to?

PS: If I sound a little, er, heated, it's because a professor lost my final exam once and gave me a zero for it, which dropped my final grade to a B. When I went to see him about it, his attitude was, "Well, you got a B, didn't you? What's wrong with that?"

DeltAlum · #7 07-14-2003, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by James
Parents are fair? Damn I missed that memo and meeting lol

James,

I said consistant. Not necessarily fair. So, you can be consistantly unfair. Know what I mean?

SAEalumnus · #8 07-14-2003, 06:44 AM

88*0.40 = 35.2
89*0.50 = 44.5

Subtotal = 79.7

With exactly a 100% score on your homework, you'd get a score of 89.7% overall, which undoubtedly would give you an A- with a rounded grade. If one assumes that a B+ is defined as 87% or higher (which is typical), then you would have needed 87 - 79.7 = 7.3 out of the 10% possible for homework (i.e. a minimum homework score of 73%). Anyway, you did say "My homeworks were okay, but not great," so if your homework score was less than 73%, then you did, in fact, earn not a B+, but a regular B. On the other hand, if your homework score was at least a 73%, then perhaps you have room to argue. Teachers do have some latitude in assigning grades, but ultimately it's the student who earns the grade.

sugar and spice · #9 07-14-2003, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SAEactive
88*0.40 = 35.2
89*0.50 = 44.5

Subtotal = 79.7

With exactly a 100% score on your homework, you'd get a score of 89.7% overall, which undoubtedly would give you an A- with a rounded grade. If one assumes that a B+ is defined as 87% or higher (which is typical), then you would have needed 87 - 79.7 = 7.3 out of the 10% possible for homework (i.e. a minimum homework score of 73%). Anyway, you did say "My homeworks were okay, but not great," so if your homework score was less than 73%, then you did, in fact, earn not a B+, but a regular B. On the other hand, if your homework score was at least a 73%, then perhaps you have room to argue. Teachers do have some latitude in assigning grades, but ultimately it's the student who earns the grade.

That's assuming the class was using the normal grading scale . . . I've had some where 92 or even 94 is the cut-off for an A.

sugar and spice · #10 07-14-2003, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DeltAlum
James,

I said consistant. Not necessarily fair. So, you can be consistantly unfair. Know what I mean?

But he could be consistently unfair by consistently curving some students' grades more than others, semester after semester.

I'm just messing with ya.

astroAPhi · #11 07-14-2003, 10:09 AM

Quick question regarding your school's grading policies:

Are professors required to attain a certain GPA for their classes?

At Florida Tech, the professors are supposed to have a GPA of 2.75 for their classes. If it's a little below, the school doesn't do much, but if it's way below, the school will often step in and curve. This is because at an engineering school, you can't go by the conventional 100 90 80 70 etc. scale. I had a 60% in Thermodynamics and that was considered to be an A. And also, truth be told, it looks bad if many of your students are failing.

What your professor may have done is what many professors at my school do. They get the final grades and "adjust" to get their 2.75. You did mention that you thought a lot of people failed the final. It may mean that since he was impressed with her "progress", he chose to bump her up instead of you. It can be pretty subjective, which I'll admit, is rather unfair.

Check with your school's grading policies. If they do things the way my school does, you probably don't have much of an arguement.

RUgreek · #12 07-14-2003, 10:29 AM

Looks like he curved everyone's grade, I don't see anything wrong with anyone's, they are all curved. I can't see any argument that you could bring to someone higher, but you can always try. Sorry that you feel shafted because he emphasizes progress over pure letter grades, but that is his choice as a teacher, there is no rule against doing such. I can understand your frustration since you worked hard all semester to get the highest possible, but I would let it go honestly, nothing in life (or school) is going to be fair to everyone. In any case, the grading system and outcome matches his personal explanation. Unless this is against school policy, I don't think you'll have much success complaining to adminstrators. But again, you can always try, every school is different and maybe yours is more considerate to the student's cause.

RUgreek

juniorgrrl · #13 07-14-2003, 10:55 AM

Man, that's an assy grading scale. Anything below a 97 is a B. Suck.

bucutie02 · #14 07-14-2003, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RUgreek
Sorry that you feel shafted because he emphasizes progress over pure letter grades, but that is his choice as a teacher, there is no rule against doing such

UM, I actually think that unless he STATES that on the syllabus, then he cannot do that. I mean, professors cannot type things on a syllabus and then completely change their minds without telling the students that. He told me that he said that in class he wasnt going to stick to the mathematical formula, but I dont think he said that.

I am going to write him another email telling him that unless he can explain to me how it is fair that a student who made a 45 on the midterm got a B-, while I made almost double her grade got a B, then I will have to have the dean explain it to me.

I am just SO mad at him, he is a grad student- so you would think he wouldnt do sketchy things like that.

juniorgrrl · #15 07-14-2003, 06:43 PM

Actually, the grad students that I had were WAY sketchier than the actual professors.

I had one who had this attitude of "I'm leaving here, so screw you" and gave us a crappy exam that didn't cover any of what we studied. I went in with an A, came out with a B.

I had another one who was out for about 1/2 of the class meetings because he was on job interviews. He left us with a colleague who couldn't speak english and couldn't teach worth crap. And then gave us ridiculous exams.

Beware the grad student teacher