Drugs

[RACooper]

Okay time for a serious debate:
Drugs and the Fraternity.


The reason that I want to debate this is the changing Canadian (and some US States) laws regarding pot. Currently the Toronto chapter takes a extremely dim view of any brother using any drug, and that applies to pot. However the Canadian government is now de-criminalizing pot possession... ie. it is still illegal, but it is only a ticketable offense, roughly equivelent to jaywalking or creating a public disturbance.

Here's the thing.... as it currently stands a guy can have roughly 10 joints in his possession and only be ticketed (unless he is dealing); but if he has less that 3 or is on his own property the cops couldn't care less (from talking to cops on my hockey team). In a couple of years it is quite possible that it will be legal to smoke-up in Canada..... how is the fratenity (particularly Canadian chapters) supposed to handle this?

[pman233]

In a couple of years it is quite possible that it will be legal to smoke-up in Canada..... how is the fratenity (particularly Canadian chapters) supposed to handle this?

Brother Cooper,

If it comes down to this, aren't we really posing a moral or ethical, but not a legal issue? I would have to be gaurded in saying Intl. would have, not by choice, very little to say on the subject.

Here in the States, alcohol consumption is legal for any person over the age of 21. Can HQ punish any brother over the legal age for responsibly enjoying a drink? I would think not. (please note, I did add the word responsibly.)

I could see strong opinion, one way or the other at Zeta level. I could also see increased inusrance premiums for Zetas in locales where smoking would be legalized.

When I was still playing the Fortune 500 game, the first step in filing an on-the-job injury claim was a mandatory drug and alchohol screening to make sure you weren't the the cause of your own accident. I could see this trickling down from HQ as a sound liability policy.

I fully expect to see a range of replies to this post.

In ZAX,

pman

[RACooper]

Here in the States, alcohol consumption is legal for any person over the age of 21. Can HQ punish any brother over the legal age for responsibly enjoying a drink? I would think not. (please note, I did add the word responsibly.)

Well....

Yes they can. Here in Canada the legal drinking age is 18/19 depending on what province you are in. Now all of our rush events must be dry.... yet all the rush can legally go to a bar, hang out at a pool hall, bowling alley, strip club, dance club, or stay in there residence or home. At all of these places they can kick back and enjoy a drink; but not if they come to our rush event. While this may change as now students graduate from highschool a year earlier; that would only apply to first-years.

I will be the first to admit that we have bent the rules about this.... sometimes we allowed the rush to bring there own; or we wrapped up the offical rush event at around 9:30 - 10 and went out to the bar or club.

[Tom Earp]

Brother Cooper,

While drinking at The Legal Age is Okay with Hdq. We are still concidered a "Dry Rush/House" Fraternity.

While Canada may legalize "POT", International is still down on this!

It maybe, Legal Drugs/Alcohol by the country, you still live under the rules of LXA.

[SGill4613]

I see no reason why a Canadian law should have any effect on Lambda Chi Alpha on an international level. If an American brother goes to Canada and has a drink if he is over 18 but under 21, he would not be frowned upon. Also I would hope that if a brother were to go to Amsterdam and smoke some pot, that when he comes back, he would not be looked down upon. Why something like this would effect brethren around the world, I don't know, and I doubt it will make any impact on inscurance.

[pman233]

Yes they can. Here in Canada the legal drinking age is 18/19 depending on what province you are in. Now all of our rush events must be dry.... yet all the rush can legally go to a bar, hang out at a pool hall, bowling alley, strip club, dance club, or stay in there residence or home. At all of these places they can kick back and enjoy a drink; but not if they come to our rush event.

OK all,

Although this is the type of debate I was expecting, I think were at apples and oranges on most of these points.

When I wrote my reply, I specifically had in mind the individual rights as a citizen first, and a Brother second. Here at SU, dry rush has been in effect since 1988 and enforced most of the time by the University. In my book, I fear what HQ can do to my Zeta more than the University punishment (although the double indemnity clauses in place pretty much serve the same penalty).

The scenario I was trying to present:

A 21+ GDI comes to rush. He is legal to drink in any bar he chooses. If under a new law, he is also legally able to toke if he so chooses, he may do so on his own time. If the Zeta chooses not to issue a bid to this man based on the inhalation disclosure, it's 100% up to them, if they consider him flexing his legal rights as a mark against his moral terpitude.

Now let's reverse the scenario and this man gets a bid. The last time I checked, "Every Man a Man" did not exclude pot smokers (of the legal variety). I believe HQ has every right to dictate any activity that goes on inside the walls of any "Chapter House." HQ can suck my balls if they try to supercede my legal rights and strip me of my letters because I choose to LEGALLY smoke pot in MY home on MY time.

I know I went from point A to point B by way of Topeka, but it really needs said. HQ has every right to say what happens inside any designated chapter facility, but will the line actually be drawn as to what a Brother can do outside those walls? This is my concern.

In ZAX,

pman

[Eric_Berger]

While I have a strong opinion that the legalization of marijuana is a bad idea, I'll leave my politics out of this...

But, as a High Pi, the 1982 General Assembly adopted the following resolution regarding ILLEGAL drugs ("Read your Constitutions and Statutory Codes", said the old High Pi):

"Be It Resolved by Lambda Chi Alpha Fraternity, duly convened at the 1982 General Assembly, that the following be adopted as the official policy of Lambda Chi Alpha Fraternity:

POLICY ON ILLEGAL DRUGS

Recognizing that the use of illegal drugs has adversely affected the morale, operations, and standards of its collegiate Chapters/Colonies, Lambda Chi Alpha Fraternity adopts this policy related to the use of such drugs within the Fraternity.

1. There shall be no possession or use of illegal drugs, including related paraphernalia, in Chapter/Colony houses, on Fraternity premises, at Fraternity functions wherever held, or in any other fashion that would be connected in any way with the Fraternity. Violation by a member or a Chapter/Colony is an offense against the Lambda Chi Alpha Fraternity, which shall not be tolerated.

2. Chapters/Colonies are to strictly enforce this policy as prescribed in Article X of the Constitution, as well as to take a positive educational approach on illegal drugs in preventing problems affecting a Chapter/Colony.

3. The Grand High Zeta is directed to take the necessary action, where warranted, to enforce this policy as to individual members and Chapters and Colonies.

4. The Administrative Staff is further directed to obtain and/or develop appropriate materials for an educational program dealing with drug usage. The materials should be appropriate whether or not a Chapter/Colony currently has a drug problem.

5. The Fraternity encourages each Chapter/Colony to implement a comprehensive educational program dealing with drug usage and its injurious effects on the individual member and on the well-being of our Chapters/Colonies.

6. The Fraternity's position is based upon the recognition that clear evidence exists that the use of illegal drugs, including marijuana, is both injurious to the individual member and detrimental to the well-being of its Chapters/Colonies."

As things currently stand, it looks pretty clear to me that use in a Chapter house, on Chapter property, at a Chapter event (regardless of location), or in any way that would reflect on Lambda Chi Alpha violates fraternity policy and will be punished.

As for individuals using illegal drugs, I stand firmly in the "conduct unbecoming a gentleman" corner.

I think Brother Cooper's initial post says it all: "However the Canadian government is now de-criminalizing pot possession... ie. it is still illegal, but it is only a ticketable offense, roughly equivelent to jaywalking or creating a public disturbance."

"It is still illegal" means it is still illegal! Therefore, I would think that the 1982 Resolution and Policy still stand.

in ZAX,
Eric

[pman233]

I think Brother Cooper's initial post says it all: "However the Canadian government is now de-criminalizing pot possession... ie. it is still illegal, but it is only a ticketable offense, roughly equivelent to jaywalking or creating a public disturbance."

Brother Eric -

This is a great point, and one I failed to glean from Bro. Cooper's original post. Decriminalized and legalized are two ENTIRELY different points; so different that the point remains moot until it is legalized and not just decriminalized.

It is this kind of banter and experience that makes these boards an invaluable service to any GLO member that cares at all about their chapter.

In ZAX,

pman

[Tom Earp]

Da, this is why WE are Brothers oif LXA!!

pman, You talked to Jason???

What all of this boils down to is Risk Management and Liability!

While We as Fraternity May/May not screw up, If any Greek Org. does, it reflects upon all of us! Ergo, the price Of Insurance goes up!!! Add the csts to what is paid to Hdq!

[pman233]

pman, You talked to Jason???

Tom --

I tried to email him some time ago, but his email "bounced".

Jason, if you see this, I hope all is well. Drop us a line when you get a chance.

ZAX,

pman

[Tom Earp]

Jason,

Ditto what pman said!!!!!

In ZAX,

[RACooper]

Originally posted by Tom Earp
Da, this is why WE are Brothers oif LXA!!

pman, You talked to Jason???

What all of this boils down to is Risk Management and Liability!

While We as Fraternity May/May not screw up, If any Greek Org. does, it reflects upon all of us! Ergo, the price Of Insurance goes up!!! Add the csts to what is paid to Hdq!

Damn... don't get me started on the insurance fees; this year was a disaster for us in paperwork and hassles.

As for the issue of pot up here in Canada.... Toronto will take it's lead from the school and other houses. I have been to various student leader meetings and I have some contacts amongst the admin.

Here is the concensus of the school so far:
Each Rez. will be non-smoking (of any kind), however there are common smoke rooms (it gets cold up here) were the students living there can smoke. Since this area is considered both school and private property (depending on the college and rez) technically they can light up a joint.... however if the get a complaint then it has to stop.

Campus police said they will ticket anyone smoking in public, and if complaints are recieved from a rez. (they can't enter the reZ unless a complaint was made). Toronto police are treating like drinking in public (ie. not on private property or lincensed area.. such as on the sidewalk); they ticket and fine you if you smoke up anywhere but on private property.

On another note the fedral government just entered the dealing business.... for medicinal pot. If you have the approriate medical documents you can fill out an order form and the government will send you either seeds or prepared pot.... times sure are changing up here

[LXAAlum]

Sorry - but no one but brother George Spasyk could address this better: WAY back from 1986 Cross and Crescent:


Reflections... on Being Old-Fashioned

Summer 1986 -- June 17, 1986 Len Bias, twenty-two years old, University of Maryland All-American basketball star, Is the first-round draft choice of the NBA champion Boston Celtics. The ultimate dream of every young college athlete had come true for this young, healthy, strapping young man. He could look forward to a lifetime of fame and would amass a fortune in material wealth.

June 19, 1986 Len Bias was dead, of cardiac arrest, brought on by the use of cocaine.

"Anyone's death diminishes mankind," John Donne said. But the drug-induced death of a star athlete, one who is in a position to be a role model for other young people, can have a profound effect on those who might have been tempted to experiment with this insidious drug. Perhaps, just perhaps, others would be warned that the senseless use of illegal drugs, any illegal drugs... marijuana, cocaine (and its more deadly derivative, "crack"), heroin... can cause tragedy, even death.

June 27, 1986 Don Rogers, twenty-three years old, Cleveland Browns star defensive back, on the eve of his wedding day, dies of an overdose of cocaine. Don Bogers obviously knew what had caused Len Bias' death. Anyone who reads a newspaper, a news magazine, or watches TV (and that's just about everyone), knew how Len Bias died. But apparently Don Rogers didn't think it could happen to him.

These drug-related deaths elicit a number of reactions -- shock, grief, anger, and perhaps a degree of frustration. But perhaps they might induce a degree of fear; the realization that it can happen to anyone.

If anyone were to categorize me as "old-fashioned," I happily and confidently plead guilty, especially when it comes to the use of illegal drugs. I've always felt that their use was stupid, absolutely stupid.

There are reports that some twenty-five million people in the United States have used cocaine.

That's 11% of our population. Marijuana use far exceeds that number. Is it a problem in Lambda Chi Alpha? Yes. Not to the degree that it is in society as a whole, but yes, it's a problem in about 6% of our chapters. Among alumni members, it's anybody's guess.

I just have never understood why anyone in his right mind would use illegal drugs, even experimentally, even just once, "to see what it's like."

The Fraternity has a policy that

"There shall be no possession or use of illegal drugs, including paraphernalia, in chapter houses, on Fraternity premises, at Fraternity functions wherever held, or in any other fashion that would be connected in any way with the Fraternity."

This doesn't touch the member who may use illegal drugs in the privacy of his off-campus apartment, unless such use reflects adversely on the Fraternity, such as being busted and being identified as a member of the Fraternity. (Emphasis mine)

Does the Fraternity have a right to be concerned about its members using illegal drugs? Not only does it have the right, it has an absolute obligation to do so. To do otherwise would render "brotherhood" and "brotherly love" hollow and meaningless terms. I just wish we could do more about it.

Of one thing I am sure; I will never tolerate the use of illegal drugs in my home, among my friends or associates, or on the Fraternity staff. If this be "old-fashioned," so be it.

[JonoBN41]

I guess things were different back in the seventies when most students smoked pot. It was illegal, but so pervasive that law enforcement and even the administration just let it go.

Virtually all of our brothers graduated and are now successful biologists, oceanographers, Lieutenant Colonels (or full Col.s), corporate jet pilots, engineers, private investigators, pharmaceutical manufacturers, cost estimators, physicians - you name it.

Marijuana is not addictive and I personally don't care for it but looking back, it seems the most messed-up brothers now are the ones who didn't get stoned then.

What does this mean? I don't know but it's far out, man.

Probably the biggest problem with pot today is the diametrically opposed social attitude as compared to the '70s. Intrinsically it's relaxing, while not nearly as habit forming or addictive as nicotine or alcohol.