Drag?

[valkyrie]

Okay, this may be a controversial subject, but I'm not even sure. I don't want this to become a flame war and hope that we can all be civil.

I have a question that nobody has ever been able to answer to my satisfaction, and I'm wondering if anybody here can answer it. It has to do with drag shows/drag queens/men dressing up as women purely for entertainment purposes. Now, my question does not involve people who honestly feel that they should be the other gender -- like men who feel that they should be women and may or may not have a sex change operation. I am talking only about men who dress up as women for fun or entertainment.

Here is my question: How is a man dressing up as a woman for entertainment any different from, better than or more acceptable than white people dressing up in blackface?

[sigmagrrl]

The first word that came to mind when you posed this question was: motive.

Drag is not meant to mock/degrade. Blackface was meant to insult another race.

When I see a drag queen, I see a female impersonator, not someone who hates women....

Just my off the top of my head thoughts...

[33girl]

There's a BIG difference between the female impersonators that you can't tell are males, and the type of drag where it's obvious the guys are guys (they haven't shaved, etc).

Female impersonator = RuPaul
Bad drag = Milton Berle http://www.lucyfan.com/miltonberle.html

The second would seem to be a bit more likely to offend, but as a woman I don't really care about either one.

[CarolinaCutie]

Wow. I have never thought of that. But I see what you mean. And I don't think I have the answer. I think perhaps... the ways that a drag queen mocks a woman are subtle. Most women don't identify a man in drag with someone who is making fun of them, I think. Although, in a way, they definitely are making fun of females.

This question is kinda blowing my mind... it's so simple, but I never even questioned it before. You kinda have a way of doing that to me, on LJ and on here! So this answer isn't really saying much and it probably sounds completely random.

[MoxieGrrl]

I do not consider drag queens an insult. They are almost like cartoon characters of women.....everything is exaggerated to the extreme (my God, have you seen the shoes they wear! ) To tell you the truth, I'm kind of flattered.

Now blackface is a whole different thing. I agree with sigmagrrl - it's all about the motive.

[33girl]

ok, I'm going to throw something else into the mix!

If you have ever seen "Sayonara" (you should if you haven't - young Brando = YUMMY), Ricardo Montalban plays a Japanese man although he obviously isn't Japanese. He doesn't mock the culture in any way. Hollywood did this type of thing often up through the 1960's. (I am guessing it was as much a cost saving measure as anything, as these were the days when actors were under contract) Would you consider this equivalent to blackface, or is it an homage?

[CutiePie2000]

Originally posted by valkyrie
Here is my question: How is a man dressing up as a woman for entertainment any different from, better than or more acceptable than white people dressing up in blackface?

Valkyrie,
My opinion is that it is all about "intention".

I guess my thoughts are that drag queens "look up to" the women they are impersonating (Diana Ross, Cher, Madonna etc.).
Their imitations are done in a friendly spirit and in a spirit of "fun".

Whereas blackface - those who do this; historically, those who did it before them, their intention was one of malice and contempt, it is to ridicule, put down or vilify members of that race.
They may not "mean" it as contemptuous but the message is still the same. And it's not about how a person means it, but how it is perceived and received.

Originally posted by 33girl
If you have ever seen "Sayonara" (you should if you haven't - young Brando = YUMMY)

Although I realize that Marlon Brando was considered a sex symbol back "in the day" (when he was young and slimmer) I have a difficult time envisioning Marlon Brando as a hottie (LOL)

[texas*princess]

Originally posted by CutiePie2000
Valkyrie,
My opinion is that it is all about "intention".

I guess my thoughts are that drag queens "look up to" the women they are impersonating (Diana Ross, Cher, Madonna etc.).
Their imitations are done in a friendly spirit and in a spirit of "fun".

Whereas blackface - those who do this; their intention is one of malice, it is to ridicule, put down or vilify members of that race.

I definatley agree w/ CutiePie & sigmagrrl

[GMUBunny]

I agree with everyone else. Someone who is very close to me dresses in drag. It has nothing to do with wanting to become a woman, but more with just liking our clothes. Many drag queens do dress as an homage of sorts to their idols (as CutiePie2000 already said). And no, not all men who crossdress are gay!

Just my $.02

[Optimist Prime]

Drag names work the same as porn names. First pet and mother's maiden name. I would never do drag, but if I did, my name would be Lady Shindell.

[sugar and spice]

Originally posted by 33girl
ok, I'm going to throw something else into the mix!

If you have ever seen "Sayonara" (you should if you haven't - young Brando = YUMMY), Ricardo Montalban plays a Japanese man although he obviously isn't Japanese. He doesn't mock the culture in any way. Hollywood did this type of thing often up through the 1960's. (I am guessing it was as much a cost saving measure as anything, as these were the days when actors were under contract) Would you consider this equivalent to blackface, or is it an homage?

There's something similar going on in Breakfast at Tiffany's. I think it's Mickey Rooney who dresses up as Audrey Hepburn's Asian landlord. It really just ruins the whole movie for me.

As for the drag queens, I do think it's partially intent, but mostly I think it's just historical precedence. If there was a history of men dressing up as women and acting stupid to mock women and their intelligence, drag queens would be a much more sensitive issue than they are. Blackface wouldn't be such a touchy subject right now if there had never been a history of it.

[AchtungBaby80]

You know what I immediately thought of when I saw this thread..."LO-LA Lola, Lo-lo-lo-lo-lola!"

Can't really add much to this discussion, except to say that I have no problem with people dressing in drag...they usually look better than I do.

[PiKA2001]

I think I hear Cher playing somewhere.........

[LeslieAGD]

Originally posted by sigmagrrl
The first word that came to mind when you posed this question was: motive.

Drag is not meant to mock/degrade. Blackface was meant to insult another race.

Excellent point!

[PM_Mama00]

My friends were sitting across from a group of drag queens at our favorite after-party diner. Ok... the gay strip club is across the street so it's not that unusual. But one of them kept messing with my two friends when they were in line for the bathroom. I wish I coulda been there.