Does Laci Peterson's baby count?

James · #1 04-20-2003, 05:11 PM

Does the fact that the baby didn't survive the mother's murder make it a double homicide?

There have been some legal difficulties on whether its possible to murder an unborn child.

bethany1982 · #2 04-20-2003, 05:19 PM

In CA, it counts as a murder.

AF

Friends may come and go but sisters are FOREVER.

James · #3 04-20-2003, 05:29 PM

At what month do you know? Like if it were three months would it be murder?

Quote:

Originally posted by bethany1982
In CA, it counts as a murder.

AF

Friends may come and go but sisters are FOREVER.

bethany1982 · #4 04-20-2003, 05:48 PM

James,

CA Penal Code, Section 187, simply defines murder as the unlawful killing of a human being, or a fetus, with malice aforethought.

AF

Friends may come and go but sisters are FOREVER.

James · #5 04-20-2003, 05:56 PM

Bethany thank you.

Here is a little more about why Pro-Choicers are against fetal homicide laws.

04/20/03 - Posted 11:52:10 PM from the Daily Record newsroom
Laci Peterson case tied to Roe debate

By Rob Jennings, Daily Record

The head of the National Organization for Women's Morris County chapter is opposing a double-murder charge in the Laci Peterson case, saying it could provide ammunition to the pro-life lobby.

"If this is murder, well, then any time a late-term fetus is aborted, they could call it murder," Morris County NOW President Mavra Stark said on Saturday.

Prosecutors in California announced Friday their intention to charge Scott Peterson, 30, of Modesto, both with killing his wife and their unborn son. Laci Peterson was eight months pregnant when she disappeared Dec. 24.

Both bodies were identified on Friday after washing up on the shore of San Francisco Bay.

More than two dozen states, including California, have adopted "fetal homicide" statutes, and prosecutors often will seek a double-murder charge when a pregnant woman is killed.

Marie Tasy, public and legislative affairs director for New Jersey Right To Life, countered that a double-murder charge against Scott Peterson is appropriate. She assailed pro-choice activists for opposing fetal homicide statutes.

"Obviously he was wanted by the mother," Tasy said.

"Clearly groups like NOW are doing a great injustice to women by opposing these laws. It just shows you how extreme, and to what lengths, these groups will go to protect the right to abortion."

Fetal homicide laws have been opposed by some pro-choice organizations that fear they will undermine a woman's right to choose an abortion, even though the statues exempt legal abortions.

After watching news reports of Peterson's arrest, Stark expressed concern with the tone of the coverage.

"There's something about this that bothers me a little bit," Stark said. "Was it born, or was it unborn? If it was unborn, then I can't see charging (Peterson) with a double-murder."

Some pro-lifers hope fetal homicide laws will establish a precedent that fetuses are human beings, thereby fueling efforts to reverse the U.S. Supreme Court's 1973 Roe v. Wade decision that legalized abortion.

Laci Peterson's due date was Feb. 10, and she already had picked out a name -- Connor -- for her unborn son. Stark said that added to the tragedy of the case, but shouldn't result in an additional murder charge.

"He was wanted and expected, and (Laci Peterson) had a name for him, but if he wasn't born, he wasn't born. It sets a kind of precedent," Stark said, adding that the issue was "just something I've been ruminating on."

There is no fetal homicide statute in New Jersey, considered one of the nation's most pro-choice states. Under California law, murder charges can result if the fetus is older than seven weeks.

To convict Peterson of murdering his unborn son, prosecutors would have to prove either that he intended to kill the fetus or knew that it would die as a result of Laci Peterson's death.

"The argument that (fetal homicide statutes) would interfere with abortion rights is ridiculous," Tasy said. "These groups are so radical that they would deny recourse to a family for the loss of a wanted child."

The second murder charge against Peterson is crucial because he otherwise would not be eligible for the death penalty. The double-murder charge qualifies as a "special circumstance" for which capital punishment may be sought.

Prosecutors have not said whether they will seek the death penalty against Peterson, who will be arraigned on Monday. He is being held in the Stanislaus County Jail.

Stark said that despite her opposition to the double-murder charge, she is not sympathetic to Scott Peterson. "I'd like to see them string him up," Stark said, "any way they can."

Rob Jennings can be reached

straightBOS · #6 04-20-2003, 06:47 PM

In some states, if the fetus is old enough to live outside of the womb, it could be murder.

In others, it has to be determined whether the fetus took a breath or not.

DZHBrown · #7 04-20-2003, 08:37 PM

If the child was considered a viable fetus, then yes, it is murder. A man was charged and convicted of murder here in Nashville when he hit a pregnant woman with his car and killed them both.

If the evidence shows that he murdered his wife, I definitely think he should be charged with the murder of his child.

James · #8 04-20-2003, 08:42 PM

But everyone does understand why the pro-choice people are concerned?

cash78mere · #9 04-20-2003, 09:09 PM

morally, i don't know which side i stand for. it's a tough decision.

technically, i don't think the fetus should be counted. why? mainly because a fetus that dies in the womb from a miscarriage does not get a death certificate and the mother isn't charged with it's death. it is a tragedy, but not murder. i would be scared of the ramifications of counting it as a person. what if the mother falls, and the fetus dies? should she be tried for murder? obviously not, but if people had a way to charge her, that would be awful. we have many crooked people who could work the laws in evil ways.

all i know is scott peterson should rot in hell.

bethany1982 · #10 04-20-2003, 09:43 PM

The law in CA specifically excludes abortion... the pro abortion crowd has nothing to worry about.

Munchkin03 · #11 04-20-2003, 09:59 PM

If we find out some things, like...
...how much time elapsed between her disappearance and death, the mode of death for both the fetus and mother, or whether or not Scott Peterson did something horrible like remove the fetus from her body and kill it separately, then it could be considered murder. If the fetus's death was simply a result of her death, then it cannot. That's my concern.

Being a virulently pro-choicer who will fight and die for the preservation of Roe v. Wade, I can understand what the pro-choicers are concerned about. It all depends on the individual circumstances of this case, like cause of death. When more things are found out, I can say definitively.

swissmiss04 · #12 04-20-2003, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cash78mere

all i know is scott peterson should rot in hell.

And that's why I think he should get the double murder charge: so he can do so sooner rather than later. He knew that when he killed Laci that their baby was going to die as well. He was well aware of her pregnancy, seeing as how he presumably was the father and had seen her tummy. He knew that there were 2 lives at risk. If he had done it after the birth of the baby (still a heinous crime), at least he would only have a single charge against him. But regardless, if indeed he is the culprit, he's one sick bastard. At 8 months a baby can easily live out of the uterus. Anything after 6 months is possible, the closer to 9 months, the more likely. He knew what he was doing.

pinkyphimu · #13 04-20-2003, 11:42 PM

i am sure that there have been other cases where pregnant women were killed and the murderers were charged with 2 counts. honestly, he (presumably) decapitated her and cut off her legs. the baby was found seperate from the mother's body (ummm, how would that have happened if someone didn't help him out of the womb) and they have been floating in the ocean for months. i think it would be fair if he could be charged with more bc let's face it, he has messed up a lot more than 2 lives!!
i really don't think the pro-choice people need to get their panties in a ruffle over this one!!!! if someone killed your pregnant sister/ wife/ etc., would you still support the idea of a fetus being exempt from this....ummm, that'd be a NO. i am sure that there are some other causes they could be taking up......like lobbying the health care companies to decrease the costs for birth control. i bet you could save a lot of babies from being aborted if birth control didn't cost $25 or more per month!

i heard a rumor that this guy had a gf in college that disappeared and was never found. supposedly, people he went to college with called police after laci disappeared. anyone else hear this?

honeychile · #14 04-20-2003, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cash78mere
what if the mother falls, and the fetus dies? should she be tried for murder?

all i know is scott peterson should rot in hell.

In PA, Scott Peterson would be charged with double homicide, too. One case of fetal homicide has already been decided against the perpetrator.

When I was married, my ex pushed me down the stairs when I was 16 weeks pregnant. I lost the baby, who looked complete in every way. I feel to this day that he killed our child. Laci Peterson was 32+ weeks pregnant - Connor had a right to live.

It continually amazes me that, if a baby is wanted, all sorts of in utero surgery is permitted, but if that same baby is unwanted, he or she can be used for tissue parts. Where's the justice in this? If abortion is to be completely legal throughout a pregnancy, then no in utero surgery should be permitted, since it's not viable. You can't have it both ways.

honeychile

CutiePie2000 · #15 04-21-2003, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by James
Does the fact that the baby didn't survive the mother's murder make it a double homicide?

There have been some legal difficulties on whether its possible to murder an unborn child.

James,
I once watched an interview with a Roman Catholic Priest who gave a statement about abortion. He stated that while he was against abortion, it is not "murder" as murder is killing which is done with malice.

In Lacey Peterson's case, I would consider it murder as she was killed with malice and that malice was "transferred" onto her unborn child, if you will.

Thanks.