DZ and recruitment at UF

[hopefulgreek]

Alright, last night at chapter we were told that DZ is going through formal recruitment as expected for Fall 2003. They just colonized this year. They, of course, at the present have no house. After deciding with many options already closed, they are rushing girls out of the ATO house here at the UF campus. Now, they have promised to remove all ATO materials out of the house and cover up the letters, composities, etc. They, as a group, have also promised to make it clear that the house they are rushing out of is NOT theirs. And any ATOS are not allowed at their events. But they are not saying which house it is, however it's the most famous of all frat houses on campus. OF COURSE Girls will know! But, somehow to me they still shouldn't be rushing out of a house, especially a frat house. I understand this is the only option and what DZ got allowed to do but was wondering what others thought. Do you think that that is fair? Or what are your feelings on it?

[texas*princess]

I don't know too much about that school, but where else would they be able to hold recruitment events?

Is the ATO house near the other sorority houses?

Without knowing much, I don't see anything wrong with holding recruitment at a fraternity's house, since you mentioned they will explain to the girls that they don't have a house, and not claim that the house they are in is theirs.

[hopefulgreek]

I don't know too much about that school, but where else would they be able to hold recruitment events?
Well, the most likely place would have been the Ritz Union, where DZ actually meets. However, the rooms in Ritz are all booked.

Is the ATO house near the other sorority houses?
Um, Yes it is. So busing would not have to be used. However, busing is done for Pi Phi, which is located on Frat row.


I think my initial problem is the fact they are overlooking the Alpha Gamma Rho house, located more near sorority row. It would be more on the row than ATO,because it is near Kappa Kappa Gamma. They claim that the room's were not large enough.


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[Greekgeezer]

Why do you care so much? It sounds like you're jealous instead of being happy that DZ actually has a place to rush, and it might be better than your house. If girls obviously know it's the ATO house, then they'll obviously know they won't be living there in the future -- so it really shouldn't influence their decision if they're smart.

It's not unfair unless you have a better suggestion for a place for them to rush. Do you expect them to conduct parties outside in August in Florida? Putting them inside an actual greek structure will help DZ's morale and comraderie, get over it.

[FuzzieAlum]

Not having their own house will be rush obstacle enough - not being able to rush in a house at all could be disasterous. New chapters have enough problems to face without that.

And if the women of DZ are so foolish as to not make it crystal clear to rushees that it isn't their own house, they will lose girls after bid day - and they'll earn their own punishment.

[hopefulgreek]

JEALOUS? Not likely, since my house holds the most girls in house than any other sorority.
Plus, cleaning up the ATO house? Not Fun. I mean how and what will they do with it? Put in a garden?

It's just sorority rush is supposed to be as neutral as possible, we especially aren't supposed to advertise ties with any frat in particular.

I am upset because I don't think this is an accurate rep of their house. They do not have their own "house" to rush out of. For the future, their new house I have seen the plans for is beautiful.

DZ has never to my knowledge had an event with ATO, and I feel the sorority is trying to connect themselves as much as possible with them.

No I don't expect rush to do done outside and that was never discussed as even an option. I know that would discourage PNM from wanting to keep visiting DZ.

[astbunny]

I understand why you would think that the DZs having rush at the fraternity house is unfair. The DZs by having rush at the ATO house, even though all letters are down and boys aren't there, associates them with that fraternity and the fact that it is one of the more popular fraternities atracts girls to that house. The rules in Panhellenic stating that sororities shall not have rush events with men's fraternities was put in effect I assumed to seperate the association of certain sororities with men's fraternities. By having it at the fraternity house, even though letters aren't up and the boys aren't there, associates them with this fraternity. Most new chapters that come onto a campus don't have a house. My chapter doesn't have a house, but I'm sure that there is another option for the DZ's than the fraternity house.

[EM1843]

I have a problem with it and I'm not even in a sorority. The ATO house is quite possibly the largest/best looking house on campus, which has alot to due with the fact that they have the highest dues on campus. The house looks much better than most sorority houses and knowing the UF greek communities' stance on telling the truth and not hidding facts during sorority rush, I don't think they'll say "Hey girls look at the beautiful house that we're in that isn't ours. We have no house, but we are just here." Dirty rushing is a fact of life at UF for girls and I think this gives them an unfair advantage...but I also think they'll have alot of girls drop because "their beautiful house" isn't DZ's...

[ZTAngel]

I think that having them rush out of ATO is the most fair option. Neutral would be if they had a house of their own like you.
I go to UCF where four of the ten sororities are unhoused. The four unhoused sororities rush out of the fraternity houses. The PNM's do not associate the sororities with the houses that they are rushing out of. Girls will not join Delta Zeta for their supposed ties with ATO; I am sure DZ will make it clear as possible that it is not their house....they have to.
You have more of an upper hand in this situation than you think. From my experience at UCF, I have had a number of girls that are going through rush tell me that they would not join a sorority that does not have a house. Why? I don't know but for some reason this is what the PNM's prefer. It hurts a sorority more to not have a house and to rush out of fraternity house more than you think. I think that instead of being "upset" you should try to be supportive. It must be hard for a chapter to go through formal rush for the first time and not have their own house to rush out of. Y'all have had the same house for years and therefore know the structure which means more organized rush parties and entrances/exits. Delta Zeta not only has to learn how to rush these girls but they have to organize their parties in a house that is completely unfamiliar to them. They are a new sorority and need as much support as possible.
When I went through rush, the unhoused sororities made it clear that they were rushing out of house that wasn't their own. Our Rho Gamma's also informed us of this. The PNM's will know that the ATO house is not DZ's.

[dzandiloo]

I know nothing about the situation at UF re. where DZ will be rushing, but based on your comments, I have a few observations. For obvious reasons, my comments may seem biased, but here goes.

1. I am certain that Panhellenic will also make sure it is crystal clear to the PNMs that the house does not belong to DZ, nor is there any relationship between DZ or the organization that does own it (assuming it is remotely possible to keep the identity of said organization a secret). Did DZ make the decision to use the ATO house in a vacuum, or was Panhellenic aware of the options and/or involved in the decision?

2. I think PNMs deserver more credit than they are being given, that they are capable of realizing that DZ is a new chapter, with no house (but a beautiful one on the way) and the ATO house (whether they know it is the ATO house or not) is merely a structure with 4 walls, a ceiling and most importantly, an air conditioner that will be comparable to the others they will be visiting during recruitment. If it is a nice house (once cleaned up) then it will only serve to make the members and PNMs more comfortable.

3. This is snarky, but, IMO, any PNM who cannot separate ownership of a house from the people who are using it, and makes assumptions that there is a special connection between said fraternity & sorority & further, makes a decision to pledge there, should not have been accepted to a university such as UF.

4. Put your organization in DZs position. If your org were new to a campus of that size and with a Greek system of such stature, you would expect to have every opportunity to compete. No, a student Union room would not do. Any new org should be allowed to use a similar structure to the other groups-and should not be pressured into using something that is merely adequate. Given the choice-would your organization honestly choose to use the ATO house or the AGR house? I have never seen either, so I can't speculate, but it sounds like you have an opinion on that.

DZ is not trying to do anything under the table or unfairly influence anyone. They are trying to compete-which they have a right to do. If I remember correctly, the sororities at UF were extremely excited and supportive of DZ's arrival last year. I hope that trend continues & wish everyone success in the fall.

[IowaHawkeye]

Originally posted by hopefulgreek
I know that would discourage PNM from wanting to keep visiting DZ.

Way to have that panhellenic spirit!

There is a chapter new on my campus that is unhoused - and i know that has hurt their numbers TREMENDOUSLY. i may even suggest they do use a fraternity house b/c i would absolutely love to see them succeed.

I agree with ZTAngel - the most fair/neutral option would be for them to have their own house to rush out of - but right now that is NOT an option. I think the most unfair would be a room in the student union - talk about perceptions girls would have - girls go from big beautiful sorority houses, much like yours hopefulgreek, to a room in the student union...

There is NO WAY the DZ national advisor, who will most likely be helping them with their FIRST formal rush, would allow them to NOT say the house wasn't theirs - please, women of Delta Zeta and our national headqurters have much more class than that. I bet the fact that they are building a brand new gorgeous house will be a big topic of discussion - and they'll even have floor plans readily available to show PNMs! My hope is that girls would want to help establish DZ on the UF campus from the ground up, literally!

hopefulgreek - i really wouldn't worry about it too much - youre an established group on campus with the biggest house.

[hopefulgreek]

I know that would discourage PNM from wanting to keep visiting DZ.
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Way to have that panhellenic spirit!

Outdoors and in Florida! I'm not crazy!Sidenote: I know of girls who refused to be bused to Pi Phi and dropped them because of it. On the contrary, girls like the fact it is the only sorority house on frat row.


Plus, they practically had floor plans last year. I hope someday I get to see that house finished!It is planned to not be done until 2005. It's going to be sweet! Most girls are jealous!

[sugar and spice]

I don't think you have too much to worry about. Why is it that you think that EVERY PNM will know that it's the ATO house the girls are rushing out of, and that ATO is one of the best fraternities on campus . . . yet you also think that NONE of the PNMs will know that Delta Zeta just colonized last year and are planning on building a house? Just remembering how gossip got around in my rush group, if DZ claims it's their house but even ONE rushee knows that it isn't, by the end of the first round of parties, ever girl in her rush group will know that it's not, and they'll all cut the group for lying. I would hope that DZ would be smarter than that, and I'm sure they will be.

The whole Panhellenic rule that fraternities should not be associated with the sororities that are participating in formal rush IS problematic . . . still, I think this is the fairest option. I don't think you should worry too much.

[hopefulgreek]

I do not think that DZ will claim it as their house. They couldn't and are entirely too "classy" because to do so would be lying.

[sugar and spice]

I know you didn't mention that possibility . . . but somebody else did.