MTV Fraternity life and hazing

[UDZETA]

I am personally not a fan of these shows for many reasons but my roommate watches them. I have noticed that the boys on that show are hazing the new members. I am the standards chair for ZTA and I give a standard every semester about hazing. From what I have seen on this show they are hazing the pledges. Making them to push-ups cleaning the house as their pledge duties and there are other things I have noticed. This disturbs me a little, it may have something to do with what ZTA sees as hazing. I have noticed that there are groups on my campus that do what I would consider hazing also. I just wanted to know what their organization thought about this and what the campus thinks about this issue

[DeltAlum]

I've only seen one show and some promos, but it appears they certainly are hazing.

Being a local, they may not have the same definitions that the Nationals do, though.

Wonder how the local laws read in Buffalo.

[hoosier]

Put me down in the non-PC bunch.

While I would personally kill any chapter which paddles, and arrest the paddlers, I think pledgeship should be demanding.

I also think personal servitude is a no-no (like MTV sorority pledges having to stay up late to be the members' designated driver, or cleaning members' rooms, running errands, memorizing useless details about a member, etc.)

I think pledges should learn the fratenity/chapter history, know the members names, majors, and hometowns, and should clean the "public" areas of the house.

I think there should be pledge projects for the chapter (plan and organize - but not finance - a dance/party) and for the community (service project).

MTV's fraternity pledges show how all these new guys have to learn brothrhood - sharing, tolerating, working together - in order to have a decent brotherhood. It's going to be fun to see where the MTV pledges go.

[Kevin]

Originally posted by DeltAlum
I've only seen one show and some promos, but it appears they certainly are hazing.

Being a local, they may not have the same definitions that the Nationals do, though.

Wonder how the local laws read in Buffalo.

I've only watched one episode -- in it the pledges were required to do pushups together. I think that pretty well fits most definitions of "hazing."

[moe.ron]

Originally posted by DeltAlum
I've only seen one show and some promos, but it appears they certainly are hazing.

Being a local, they may not have the same definitions that the Nationals do, though.

Wonder how the local laws read in Buffalo.

New York hazing law:
§ 120.16. Hazing in the first degree

A person is guilty of hazing in the first degree when, in the course of another person's initiation into or affiliation with any organization, he intentionally or recklessly engages in conduct which creates a substantial risk of physical injury to such other person or a third person and thereby causes such injury.

Hazing in the first degree is a class A misdemeanor.
§ 120.17. Hazing in the second degree

A person is guilty of hazing in the second degree when, in the course of another person's initiation or affiliation with any organization, he intentionally or recklessly engages in conduct which creates a substantial risk of physical injury to such other person or a third person.

Hazing in the second degree is a violation.
----------------------------------------------------------
I went to Buffalo State, the other SUNY in town, and from what I gather from other higher ed institution in Buffalo, there is sort of a laize faire attitude toward the greeks, including my own school. Let me repeat, this was about 4 years ago, so I don't know what is going on anymore. But talking to some active, seem to be business as usual.

[DeltAlum]

Arya,

Thanks.

If those are the entire laws, it would appear that pushups probably wouldn't be considered hazing, unless the person doing them had some medical condition that would preclude him/her from safely doing this kind of physical training.

Of course, as I've said many times before, I'm not a lawyer.

Do you know if the university has any rule that might more broadly define hazing?

[RUgreek]

Originally posted by hoosier
Put me down in the non-PC bunch.

While I would personally kill any chapter which paddles, and arrest the paddlers, I think pledgeship should be demanding.

I also think personal servitude is a no-no (like MTV sorority pledges having to stay up late to be the members' designated driver, or cleaning members' rooms, running errands, memorizing useless details about a member, etc.)

I think pledges should learn the fratenity/chapter history, know the members names, majors, and hometowns, and should clean the "public" areas of the house.

I think there should be pledge projects for the chapter (plan and organize - but not finance - a dance/party) and for the community (service project).

MTV's fraternity pledges show how all these new guys have to learn brothrhood - sharing, tolerating, working together - in order to have a decent brotherhood. It's going to be fun to see where the MTV pledges go.

I agree with hoosier,

My sentiments are if it's all in good fun, there is no threat of violence or forced drinking, the pledge program should be the way they project it.

I'd go even a little farther, because scavenger hunts and campus adventures would be under personal servitude, and say that they are alright even the right circumstances.

You also have to consider that it's possible that MTV has either encouraged or suggested they perform these activities on camera, so don't let that one slip by you while the ratings for "i want to see what they do to them next" begin to rise.

[sugar and spice]

I'm another one of those who agrees that anti-hazing laws have gotten out of control, but I can see why it happened.

I think that as long as the "hazing" is something that legitimately applies to the group, it should be allowed. I think actives should be allowed to question pledges about organization's history, the Greek alphabet, and basic info about all the people in the house (I think this can be taken too far though -- requiring them to know name, hometown, age and major would be okay, but sometimes this can stretched to requiring the pledges to know everything about a member of the GLO, from their favorite color to the date they lost their virginity -- and if you've got over 100 members like so many groups do, this would be ridiculous). I think the actives should be allowed to require interviews with a certain number of actives so you can get to know certain members better (again, if there are a lot of people in your house, interviews with ALL the actives shouldn't be allowed). I think pledge projects (social and philanthropic) should be allowed. All of these things are relevant to the group and do have an effect on what kind of members these people will make and should be allowed to be tested.

Obviously I don't agree with physical hazing, forced drinking, that kind of thing. I also don't agree with personal servitude or the forcing of pledges to clean the house, which to me is a form of personal servitude.

I don't agree with "just for fun" hazing either because what someone might see as harmless fun, another girl might be humiliated by -- running topless down Greek row at night, having to serenade fraternity pledges with dirty songs, etc. I think that's why hazing has been eliminated entirely -- because different people react differently to different things and there's no way to guarantee what will cause emotional or physical distress. (Pushups, for example, could injure or even kill somebody with a heart condition, and even though that kind of thing is rare, it's still possible, and I don't think any fraternity wants to be associated with it.)

I think scavenger hunts were outlawed not so much because of their connotation with hazing (although that was a part of it) but because often it led to stealing things -- say, if an item one the list was "a fraternity's composite" or "something from the university chancellor's house." Not exactly something Greek HQs wanted associated with them. Also, the scavenger hunt can easily lead to hazing by requiring pledges to have body parts signed by fraternity members, or fraternity members requiring pledges to do favors for them in order to get, say, that composite that's an item on the list.

Basically, I'm saying that I do agree that most hazing laws are overdoing it, but I can also see that without the extreme laws the lines would get very blurry.

Question: in our anti-hazing bylaws, our nationals bans not only scavenger hunts, but hayrides. I think I've figured out the scavenger hunt ban, as reasoned above, but can anybody tell me why hayrides would be considered dangerous?

[BSUPhiSig'92]

Hayrides...hmmm. I've never heard that ban before as "hazing". I know there have been a lot of cases of injury involving hayrides (get drunk, fall off wagon, get run over) and of hayride-vehicle accidents because so many hayrides may cross country roads and the tractor/wagon may not have lights. So from a purely risk management/insurance reason I could see where a ban was coming from, but as HAZING???

[sugar and spice]

Originally posted by SirHornyToad
Id just like to say im tired of hearing people say the kids on TV are being hazed, honestly there is NO clearly defined and unanimously accepted definition of hazing that everyone will agree on, and its up for interpretation, but honestly each house will do things differently, and its noones place to say this is right or wrong. The pledges can depledge whenever they want if they think its hazing. At the same time if your not happy with something your house does change it, but dont talk smack about other people getting hazed because honestly its not yours or anyones place. Its thier house thier program, like it or not it doesnt matter.

They're breaking their university's hazing policy, therefore I think it's pretty clear that they're hazing.

If they were a local organization and their university had no hazing policy AND they weren't breaking New York state laws (which they aren't, by NY state laws' definition of hazing), then no, it wouldn't necessarily count as hazing. But since their school does have a hazing policy which is openly available on their Greek website, and this fraternity is breaking some of the rules contained in that policy, I think it's pretty clear that the kids are hazing.

Considering the fact that the University of Buffalo has just suspended their charter and is investigating their pledging process for hazing allegations, I wouldn't be surprised if they lose their charter altogether.

[33girl]

Originally posted by sugar and spice
Considering the fact that the University of Buffalo has just suspended their charter and is investigating their pledging process for hazing allegations, I wouldn't be surprised if they lose their charter altogether.

This would be THE dumbest thing for the school to do...they'd continue to operate on their own without school oversight (that's apparently common at UB) and they would do that as, arguably, the most famous local fraternity in the USA.

Before anything else, this country is full of fame and recognition whores. There are guys who will pledge just to say they're in "the MTV fraternity." Couple that with no school policies to deal with....

We can debate this all we want but in the end, it's UB and the state of New York who make the decisions about what happens.

[sugar and spice]

I completely agree with you -- I think the same point was discussed earlier in one of the FL threads -- but the point is that it seems like a fairly common thing to do at Buffalo and I wouldn't be surprised if that's how they deal with this situation.

Honestly, I can't imagine what the university COULD do to fix problems with Greek life at their school . . . it doesn't look like the Greek system is doing very well over there.

[DWAlphaGam]

I haven't been watching the show, but one of my sisters sent me this article:

Campus News - MARCH 19th, 2003
'Fraternity Life' Fraternity Suspended on Charges of Hazing
ERIN SHULTZ - Campus News Editor

UB's chapter of Sigma Chi Omega, the fraternity featured on the MTV reality series "Fraternity Life," has been suspended from the university on allegations of hazing.

According to Dennis Black, vice president of Student Affairs, shortly after the airing of the show, letters and e-mails flooded the university, prompting the administration to look into the initiation rituals of the fraternity.

"The campus approach has always been whenever there's an allegation or concern about possible hazing, they call a timeout in the group's activities," said Black.

According to Black, Sigma Chi Omega will be suspended until an investigation into the alleged hazing is conducted. No charges have been filed against any of the members of the fraternity.

The university's formal definition of hazing is "any action taken or situation created, intentionally, whether on or off fraternity premises, to produce mental or physical discomfort, embarrassment, harassment, ridicule or impairment of academic efforts."

A recent episode of the series featured, among other things, scenes of the pledge class lined against a wall while members of
the fraternity barked reprimands at them for not appearing at the library that day.

"Obviously whatever is portrayed on TV took place months ago, but the groups re active in recruiting and will be pledging new members," Black said.

The decision to suspend the fraternity was made at the beginning of spring break; many of the members were
out of town, however, making it hard to inform them of the suspension.

"Obviously, we had a notification issue," he said.

On Monday, Pamela Stephens-Jackson, university liaison for the Office of Greek Affairs, said a letter to the fraternity was
sent during spring break but that she could not comment further
until the fraternity had received the letter.

Tuesday afternoon Colin Healy, president of the fraternity, said he was unclear on the details.

"I just know that there's a letter," said Healy, who said he was picking the letter up Tuesday night but could not be reached for
further comment by midnight Tuesday.

According to Black, administrators will conduct interviews with anyone who might have information about the alleged hazing to see if a threat had been posed to any of the students.

"They haven't been tried, convicted or executed, or anything," he said, but added that if the investigation uncovers hazing,
members could be brought before the Student-Wide Judiciary.

Delta Xi Omega, the sorority featured on MTV's "Sorority Life 2," has not been suspended.

Black said it is the university's duty to investigate all allegations, especially in light of several recent situations
involving Greek organizations in New York State.

Sigma Chi Omega's suspension comes after two brothers of a different organization at Alfred University admitted to hazing
and beating one of their brothers, who committed suicide in February, and after the death of a pledge in Plattsburg's Psi Epsilon Chi fraternity, which had been suspended for underage drinking.

[SparkliiQTMTSU]

I actually believe that some of what theyre doing is alright. Yes some of it is out of line, but you should have to "earn" your letters I mean I think it can actually be a good thing and it can help weed out the ones who arent really in it for the brotherhood and just to be on tv or whatever


Nichole

[moe.ron]

another article from buffalo

http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial...20/1006650.asp