Uncle tom fad

[The Original Ape]

Is it New School to be Uncle Toms? I understand having white friends, but do we have to adopt their intonation when we talk?

I am white and have many African American friends... I love my friends - they are beautiful women!!!

But I hate the words "Uncle Tom" - is that still true today?

I would think the opposite ... I see so many white children who adopt the ways of many stars who are African American -- come on.. there are too many to say but they are so good looking, smart and successful!

Sorry if I am offending anyone... just speaking my mind.

Sue

[Little32]

I don't understand what you mean when you say adopt their intonation. I, for one, spent the first ten years of my life in a predominantly white neighborhood. When I moved to a predominantly black neighborhood, people begin to tell me that I talked like a white person. I was never sure what they meant. Then someone broke it down for me, they said that the tone of my voice what a white tone of voice (whatever that means). My speech merely reflected what had been my surroundings for the past 10 years. It was not something that I consciously chose, but just a byproduct of my childhood.
Twelve years later, after living in a predominantly black neighborhood and associating mostly with black people ( I hardly know any white people that I would consider friends), some black folks still tell me that I sound like a white person and it offends me every time. I am not an Uncle Tom in any sense of the word, yet every someone says that to me, I feel as though they are calling me a sell-out.

[This message has been edited by Little32 (edited April 07, 2001).]

[AKA2D '91]

Originally posted by The Original Ape:
Is it New School to be Uncle Toms? I understand having white friends, but do we have to adopt their intonation when we talk?

A sista needs clarification...

Are you saying that if a person speaks "white" then he or she is an Uncle Tom?

huh?

[KnowledgeEternal]

I still don't understand. How can someone "sound" white? Do you mean by the actual sound or the way they speak? I for one was born and raised in the hood but that does not mean that I do not speak clearly and annunciate my words. I can go from the boardroom to the block and no one would be the wiser.

Can you give us a specific example of what exactly you are talking about?

[The Original Ape]

Originally posted by KnowledgeEternal:
I still don't understand. How can someone "sound" white? Do you mean by the actual sound or the way they speak? I for one was born and raised in the hood but that does not mean that I do not speak clearly and annunciate my words. I can go from the boardroom to the block and no one would be the wiser.

Can you give us a specific example of what exactly you are talking about?

All I can do at this time is to refer you to my last post. When certain people I know are around white people, they tend to change their pronunciation, intonation, behavior, and everything else. It appears to me that they prefer to be with them, act like them, and speak like them. I'm aware of the fact that it is their choice, but I've also seen these same white friends in anger call these same black people nigger; and these black folk continue to associate with them as if nothing happened. They seem totally oblivious to the fact that these people don't want their forgiveness or friendship. These very same black people AVOID other black people.

I don't know; I guess I can't explain it. It's an ugly sight to see them try so hard to avoid us and be accepted by them, adopting their ways, intonation, etc., and then hear these same folk talk about them like dogs behind their backs.

[112Soul]

Originally posted by The Original Ape:
All I can do at this time is to refer you to my last post. When certain people I know are around white people, they tend to change their pronunciation, intonation, behavior, and everything else. It appears to me that they prefer to be with them, act like them, and speak like them. I'm aware of the fact that it is their choice, but I've also seen these same white friends in anger call these same black people nigger; and these black folk continue to associate with them as if nothing happened. They seem totally oblivious to the fact that these people don't want their forgiveness or friendship. These very same black people AVOID other black people.

I don't know; I guess I can't explain it. It's an ugly sight to see them try so hard to avoid us and be accepted by them, adopting their ways, intonation, etc., and then hear these same folk talk about them like dogs behind their backs.

I think I understand what you are saying. It is not whether or not they can speak "proper" but whether or not they try to emmulate (sp? or immitate) the White people they hang around because they think that other White people will see that they can talk just like them.

If my understanding is correct, then I would have to say that it would depend on the situation. On one hand, you can't really stereotype the "BLACK" sound because no two Black people sound alike. That being the case, you are always going to have people who give the intonation of sounding "WHITE." That is not their fault so therefore, no, they are not Uncle Tom's. To use your argument, you could say that Christina Aguleria (sp?) gives the intonation of sounding Black when she sings because she chose to listen to Black music all her life. I feel that she's one of the few WHITE (well she's half Hispanic but I'm going on looks here) people who has a good naturally sounding soulful voice. She is not immitating Black people, rather that is her talent.

On the other hand, if they are going the way of Claraence Thomas (or others you can think of), then yes they are Uncle Tom's, sell outs or whatever you want to call them.

112

[SweetestDiva]

TheOriginalApe -
Do you mean speaking with good diction and correct articulation as opposed to speaking with a "valley girl" tone of voice? Just trying to figure it out.

[The Original Ape]

Originally posted by Little32:
I don't understand what you mean when you say adopt their intonation. I, for one, spent the first ten years of my life in a predominantly white neighborhood. When I moved to a predominantly black neighborhood, people begin to tell me that I talked like a white person. I was never sure what they meant. Then someone broke it down for me, they said that the tone of my voice what a white tone of voice (whatever that means). My speech merely reflected what had been my surroundings for the past 10 years. It was not something that I consciously chose, but just a byproduct of my childhood.
Twelve years later, after living in a predominantly black neighborhood and associating mostly with black people ( I hardly know any white people that I would consider friends), some black folks still tell me that I sound like a white person and it offends me every time. I am not an Uncle Tom in any sense of the word, yet every someone says that to me, I feel as though they are calling me a sell-out.

[This message has been edited by Little32 (edited April 07, 2001).]

I understand the need to clarify this post; so yall wish me luck. First, I am NOT saying that associating with white people makes one an uncle tom. Also, I am NOT saying that a person that talks properly is "talkin' white". There is a difference between talking properly(good diction) and sounding white(intonation). I know people that were born black and hate that fact sooo much, that they refuse to come around their family and people they grew up with because these people REMIND THEM of their difference from their current friends. Despite being in different parts of the country, one thing binds ALL of these people together; their newly adopted intonation. Anyone out there that watches "REAL WORLD" on MTV(I don't watch it; I'm just using two characters from this show to make my point), pay attention to "Ruthie" and "Tek". Listen to how they talk, and watch how they act. Watch and listen closely; you'll see what I mean. All of that aint necessary to maintain a friendship; if it is, that friendship aint worth it.

[AKA2D '91]

OHHHHHHHHH! I Get it NOW!

We called those kind of people when I was in Jr. High, "oreos" and if they were really trying too hard, we'd call them "double stuff". LOL

[The Original Ape]

Originally posted by AKA2D '91:
OHHHHHHHHH! I Get it NOW!

We called those kind of people when I was in Jr. High, "oreos" and if they were really trying too hard, we'd call them "double stuff". LOL

Thank you KnowledgeEternal and AKA2D. I guess I made a mess of this topic. I don't think I'll try it again. I hope through my clumsiness with this topic that I haven't offended anyone.



[This message has been edited by The Original Ape (edited April 08, 2001).]

[112Soul]

AHHH! I had it wrong!
:-( :-(''''( they need one of these smileys for tear drops)

112

[The Original Ape]

Originally posted by 112Soul:
AHHH! I had it wrong!
:-( :-(''''( they need one of these smileys for tear drops)

112

112,

Naw, you had it right too. In fact, you said it best when you mentioned emulation and immitation.

I meant to mention you with the others.

Thanks for your help.

[KnowledgeEternal]

I get what he is saying. He is talking about people who get around white people and try as hard as they can to fit in, even if it means neglecting their heritage. Example:

"Joe Schmoe was raised in the projects in DC. He plays with all the kids listens to all the same music and everything. Eventually he graduates from HS and goes to college. He gets a degree and the industry in which he works has a much higher percentage of whites than blacks. He mainly associates with whites. He begins to try to dress like them and emulate their talking styles. He does everything to try and fit in with them including neglecting where he came from. He does not want his associates to think that he "acts" black."

It has nothing to do with how someone talks. It is more a question of how they carry themselves. So in that respect I would have to say that this is not a "New School" thing. As far back as we have been here, people of the African Extraction have tried to fit in with society at-large.

[Ideal08]

Originally posted by AKA2D '91:
OHHHHHHHHH! I Get it NOW!

We called those kind of people when I was in Jr. High, "oreos" and if they were really trying too hard, we'd call them "double stuff". LOL

LMAO @ "double stuff"!!!! LOL!