The "pledging" process- easy come easy go?

[Dionysus]

When members go through tougher "pledging" do you believe it will make more loyal members out of them opposed to those going through lighter "pledging"?

[Kevin]

Originally posted by Dionysus
When members go through tougher "pledging" do you believe it will make more loyal members out of them opposed to those going through lighter "pledging"?

As for tough by meaning difficult or challenging I would potentially agree with you on that. It needs to challenge them in some way. It needs to help them answer questions for themselves and understand that they are making a lifetime committment. Not necessarily more "loyal" as you put it but probably more stable. If you make it like a club where you fill out a membership form and you're in... well that's just a club. We've probably all joined and left those things every semester.... The yo-yo club, the judo club, etc.

Where being challenging crosses the line is physical, verbal or mental abuse. I do not say this because I believe hazing has any merit at all. I simply view the candidacy period as a quest or a journey where one must make important choices and realize certain things about themselves and the organization they have chosen.

[Eupolis]

I think it's a problem when an organization contrives 'challenges' just to make life a little more difficult for the pledges or to shift onto pledges responsibilities that the entire brotherhood should share.

In my chapter, if a task or project needed to be performed, we did not dropped on associate members. The entire brotherhood would take part, demonstrating the need for ongoing commitment, showing that we took it seriously, and bringing the new members into sharing those responsibilities.

Many chapters decide that their pledges ought to be challenged and come up with absurd tasks. Someone recently whined that his headquarters had forbidden his chapter to set out tasks like requiring pledges to memorize the number of floorboards in the attic. Say what? Cry me a river. That's not a personal emotional challenge, that's a trivial arithmetical one. People don't grow from that; they're demeaned by it. People also learn a lot more about commitment by signing on to commitments in which everyone shares than they do by undertaking a series of tasks only to achieve the "right" (hah) to foist those tasks off on others. That's not commitment. Commitment calls for continued work.

Most of the events in Greek life that shape members' lives won't be things we can program; they're things that "just happen" that call on members to respond. In my small chapter (25-35 people while I was there), some of my most powerful experiences were when we gathered in a dimly lit room to talk about the things that were going on in our lives that we weren't sure how to deal with. (Sometimes that would include each other, and these gatherings helped to address problems between brothers that might otherwise have simmered for months.) But only initiated brothers were invited to those events. The question is how to give new members a taste of the real challenges of fraternal life and calls on them to start asking questions about who they are and who they're going to be without inventing bullshit tasks and scenarios.

Do I have an answer for that question? Not really. I know of a first step, though: new members can tell if the older members clearly take the organization, its principles, and its goals of personal growth seriously. If they see that, they become a lot more open to thinking about the commitments to principle and personal growth that fraternal life entails -- even if they don't yet know what the exact words for the principles are.

[33girl]

I was going to make a new thread about this topic but it kind of piggybacks onto here. I found this on a chapter website (name & identifying details omitted):

At XXX, the NM program lasts approximately 6 weeks...Typical time commitments for the NM program are very minimal. The sorority chapter meeting is on Sunday nights. NM Meetings are typically one hour on a night convenient to all NMs and the NM Educator. The rest of the week is time for yourself...NM’s and Sisters are encouraged to get to know each other in the “off time” through dinners and hanging out together, but nothing is required.

Maybe this group is trying to allay fears that "sororities take over your life", which is a valid thing to do, but I personally think they've gone a bit overboard, and an approach like this will attract people who want to go Greek and put very little into it. The "very minimal" part is what bugged me the most.

Thoughts?

[texas*princess]

33girl,
While I've never gone through a new member period w/ an NPC sorority, I have however gone through a new member period w/ a local GLO and also DSP. And from both those experiences I would have to say that is crazy to say it is a minimal effort.

For me personally, both organizations required a real time committment, and I am glad the groups were honest with me and told me it would take a real time committment so I knew what kinds of time committments I had to make *before* actually going through the NM process.

If any groups told me it would only take a minimal effort, I probably would have been a lil upset when I found out it wasn't true

For people who only put the "very minimal effort" into it, that's pretty much what you get out of it.

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by ktsnake (in part)
As for tough by meaning difficult or challenging I would potentially agree with you on that. It needs to challenge them in some way. It needs to help them answer questions for themselves and understand that they are making a lifetime committment. Not necessarily more "loyal" as you put it but probably more stable. If you make it like a club where you fill out a membership form and you're in... well that's just a club. We've probably all joined and left those things every semester.... The yo-yo club, the judo club, etc.

I would agree with you, ktsnake. And I would add that it needs to be challenging in that (1) the level of commitment expected is clearly conveyed and (2) the challenges provide new members/pledges/whatever your GLO calls them with a sense of accomplishment that the period has been successfully completed. Note, I do not mean "survived," as in hazing, but full initiation should be seen as a desirable goal that requires hard work and commitment to achieve. And above all, it should challenge the new members in a specifically targeted way that causes them to reflect on and understand the particular ideals and values that matter to the GLO in question.

[White_Chocolate]

hey, we can't haze. . .

however, my fave scene is from dazed and confused. . .when they take the 8th grade girls who are going to be freshman in high school. . .and basically, hazed them into the 'in' crowd. . .

to me, that is timeless art. . .



you can tell who would have welcomed being hazed to ask a guy to marry them. . .

[Winterbloom]

I think one also needs to take into account the different pledges at the time before one makes final decisions. Every pledge class is different, and the things going on both within the class itself, and outside of it can change the timbre of a class.

What some people consider "learning dedication" to the GLO to others comes across as tedious and demeaning. For example, we had to do first rounds for each of the sisters--about 60 in our chapter--getting their personal info and a task to be completed, our second rounds. First rounds had to be done in two weeks, seconds in three, on top of the other pledging duties and academic work. For most of the girls, this was no problem. For me, as a sophomore swamped with sophomore essays and honor projects, it turned into hell. I understand that the goal was to make the MITs learn about each sister. However, with every silly little task I had to do, 60 in all, I began to hate everything I had to do. We discontinued second rounds this year.

The issue is who is pledging, friends. There needs to be discretion on the part of the brother/sister in charge of new members to decide what is appropriate for each class. What is meaningful and appropriate to some is hazing to others, and the brother/sister in charge needs to listen when a pledge feels they cannot do what their GLO is asking, not for being lazy, but for having true difficulties. Sometimes, the issue is not loyalty to the GLO, but personal issues that arise. With a good person in charge of the pledges, a lot of these issues can be avoided, I feel.

Whether the pledging is tough or light depends on perception, but above all, it must be appropriate to the class and uphold the ideals of the GLO. This is what creates a loyal brother/sister--a sense of meaning in all that s/he is doing towards initiation, and a fostering of respect for all involved.

~Emma

[kappaloo]

Originally posted by 33girl


At XXX, the NM program lasts approximately 6 weeks...Typical time commitments for the NM program are very minimal. The sorority chapter meeting is on Sunday nights. NM Meetings are typically one hour on a night convenient to all NMs and the NM Educator. The rest of the week is time for yourself...NM’s and Sisters are encouraged to get to know each other in the “off time” through dinners and hanging out together, but nothing is required.

[/B]

Sounds like my chapter. I come from an extremely professional school where time-commitments can be extremely heavy. Official commitments are kept to a minimum for new members as such. However, my NM educator made the effort to get us together other times (a lot), but since it wasn't required we always felt okay with saying "I really can't today, I have too much work to do".

I think such a method did make us closer, because it was partially the NMs who made the period work. We made the effort to get together and know eachother - no one made us, we chose to.

What makes closer ties - forced ties, or the ties you choose?

[LatinaAlumna]

Sounds like my chapter. I come from an extremely professional school where time-commitments can be extremely heavy. Official commitments are kept to a minimum for new members as such. However, my NM educator made the effort to get us together other times (a lot), but since it wasn't required we always felt okay with saying "I really can't today, I have too much work to do".

How did things work out once the new members became active sisters? Did you find a high or low level of participation?

[kappaloo]

The few events that we have had (since we initiated just before exams, and we don't have official functions during exams and until the beginning of January) were attended by all new members. Only time will tell to see how active we remain.

[Kevin]

Originally posted by kappaloo


What makes closer ties - forced ties, or the ties you choose?

Well we clearly chose our respective organizations or at least chose to accept their bids. So in that respect we've already chosen our ties. It's not wrong to challenge a new member to do something that requires that they work together. Just don't haze. As Mysticat81 said the group should definitely be up front with what is expected of new members. Make them aware of the time committments.

If you recruit people because they like your parties you get people that are there to party. If you recruit people by saying that it's a challenging experience but it'll change your life you'll get people interested in a life changing experience. Which would you rather have?

[Munchkin03]

Originally posted by kappaloo


Sounds like my chapter. I come from an extremely professional school where time-commitments can be extremely heavy. Official commitments are kept to a minimum for new members as such. However, my NM educator made the effort to get us together other times (a lot), but since it wasn't required we always felt okay with saying "I really can't today, I have too much work to do".

That's one of my chapter's biggest problems. Everyone has a million things to do (or doesn't, and makes up stuff to get out of thigns), and as a result our attendance for events is about 40%. We aren't a big chapter, and all of the decision-making falls in the hands of one or two people (then someone complains about it). As a result of our being extremely lax when faced with another commitment, the bond isn't as strong as it could be (or was when the pledge class before mine was in charge, where they practically did "pledge" in the traditional sense).

I wish there was a way to say, "okay...this will be one of your top priorities, after class and an on-campus job", and the new members would take it seriously. By missing new member education, they're missing out on a lot of what being in the house means. Because we're a laid-back school, and our Greek system is in turn laid-back, sometimes Greek groups feel like they're more of a club than a fraternity or sorority.

[kappaloo]

Originally posted by ktsnake


If you recruit people because they like your parties you get people that are there to party. If you recruit people by saying that it's a challenging experience but it'll change your life you'll get people interested in a life changing experience. Which would you rather have?

Point taken, (though the idea of someone joining my sorority for its parties is moot where I am). I agree that MysticCat is right to say that groups should be upfront with time expectations, what I was saying is that given a good NM Educator and great girls, you DON'T need huge expectations to get great ties. And if it's not neccessary - why have strict expectations?

I should note that we did have required** (if at all possible) meetings to attend - but as in the quote given by 33girl, it was only one night a week.

Originally posted by Munchkin03

I wish there was a way to say, "okay...this will be one of your top priorities, after class and an on-campus job", and the new members would take it seriously.

I think my NM Educator put it really well to us. We were choosing to join Kappa, and thus we were choosing the commitment that comes with it. Part of that commitment is coming to events and meeting whenever it was earthly possible. It was clear that we were choosing to being Kappa, we were choosing support and promote Kappa. If we weren't interested in that portion of the sisterhood, we needed to reconsider whether it was right for us.

But, ugh, she put it much nicer.

[AlphaXiLuckyMe]

This is a topic that my chapter has discussed quite often. My chapter very strictly follows our National rules on no hazing. We don't give our new members "pledge tests" or anything. Their new member meetings are at a time that is convient to all of them, but if a new member has other committments (sports, play practice, or academics) she is excused. They get their new member books, but since we can't test them on the material it is up to them to learn the material. (Personally, I went home and read the entire thing the night I got it) Luckily our past two new member classes have had the motivation to learn all that they can and are making terrific chapter members.

I also come from a very small chapter (less than 15 members) and we have a awesome sisterhood since we all live in our chapter house. I think that so long as a chapter has a strong sisterhood or brotherhood bond that that energy will be passed onto new members even if hazing, in any form, is not allowed.