Chapter Closings/Hazing and Alcohol

[DeltAlum]

I've been reading "Fraternal News" for about a week now. They have reported at least three chapter closings for either hazing or alcohol or both in that amount of time.

DKE at Washington
TKE at Ohio State
Kappa Alpha Psi at LSU

Perhaps it will be instructive to keep this list going so we can all see what we are collectively doing by hiding our heads in the sand regarding risk management/hazing/alcohol abuse.

DeltAlum

[Tom Earp]

DA, what is that site? You and I have the same feeling even tho diff letters!

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Tom Earp LX Z#1
Pittsburg State U. (Kansas)

[Tom Earp]

By the way I argue with one of my Alums as he says well Tom they are just kids! Kids are the ones that get all of us booted or yanked! When they get to College they are on their own but must be young men that is why we have Fraternitys and not Frats! I was young once and started my own local and am proud to say I am a member of my Fraternity!

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Tom Earp LX Z#1
Pittsburg State U. (Kansas)

[33girl]

Silver Turtle (I believe it was her) published a link a couple weeks ago to the fraternal news Yahoo group, here it is:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fraternalnews/messages/1

I'm going to suggest John add this link to the page somewhere so anyone who wants to go to it and read can do so. You don't have to sign up for the group to read the messages.

OK, flame me....I think keeping a list of negative Greek incidents going on this page is a horrible idea.

DeltAlum, I know what you are trying to say and I applaud your passion so long after your college days, but I'm not sure the way you go about it isn't counterproductive. I also don't think it's very cool of you to intimate that we are "sticking our heads in the sand" if we'd rather talk about thong sandals ( newbie) or other aspects of Greek life rather than wringing our hands over hazing and alcohol abuse 24/7.

I don't think there's any regular on this board who isn't aware of hazing and alcohol problems - I've never seen a post called "my fraternity/sorority would never do that!" Not to mention some of the other problems we face like unfriendly schools, eating disorders, scummy landlords.....I could go on and on. I think I speak for all of us when I say I wish I could rip the paddles and/or bottles out of some of these idiots' hands.....but unfortunately, I'm not a genie. I can't blink my eyes and be there. I can (and everyone can) educate the people in my orbit with positive reinforcement and showing them better ways to do things, not constantly telling horror stories and threatening "this could happen to you!" Would you listen to that when you were 19? I doubt it.

Plus, this board serves as a good PR tool for the Greek system in general. Rushees come on here and see people from across the system and across the country interacting with what, it's easy to see, have become close bonds. I'd hate to have someone thinking about Greek life come on this site and see a list of hazing incidents (with no follow-up of what was done to remedy them) and chapter closings and get turned off to the whole system. "Just as I thought....all they do is haze and drink."

Plus that other thread that fancyface started asking for experiences/advice about chapter closure...was it really necessary to bring up the LSU SAE incident from FOUR YEARS AGO? (Hey, in other hot news, I hear Ford's going to pardon Nixon.) The alums of that chapter have had to hang their heads over that for 4 years now (I mean the old alums, not the ones that were there when it happened), why keep twisting the knife? She was asking about personal experiences - didn't you say that one of the chapters you advised was closed? Why not talk about that, instead of dragging 2 other fraternities through the mud? Pike4Life did, very well.

I just hate the idea of reprinting stories that we know nothing or next to nothing about. I would say unless you were in it, or very close to it, you don't know what the hell happened. I saw some very dear friends of mine have their fraternity ripped from them - the supposed reason, "risk management issues" but that was NOT the reason, I assure you. I'm not saying all the news stories are trumped up charges, but I've seen enough crap go down to know that I wouldn't believe anything unless I dug into it.

I think what I am trying to say with this rather lengthy post is that negativity very rarely smashes negativity.

[AlphaXiGirl]

I think that's a great idea. Keep 'em coming... of course, the "wishful thinking" side of me hopes that there are no more to add.

[DeltAlum]

Well 33Girl,

I will respectfully agree to disagree.

Without understanding the consequences of an action, change for the better seldom occurs. That's something you learn in parenting and in business -- really in much of life.

To point out past transgressions that people at the same school, in the same era, obviously didn't learn from, or chose to ignore, is an important factor in showing the disregard for the "good of the order." Besides, as any good journalist (which, although my background is in media, I've never claimed to be) or any good lawyer knows, the background (history) leading up to an event is important to consider when trying to decide the outcome and ramifications of the present circumstance. That's probably why the new article that Fraternal News quotes mentioned the SAE incident as well. It shows a pattern of unacceptable behaviors which aren't being corrected.

When you're standing at bat, you can't simply ignore those first two strikes. After the third, you know what happens.

As division officers and alumni volunteers, it is worrisome that someday we could be on the wrong end of one of those lawsuits simply because we are trying to help our fraternity. How foolish would we be to not have brought problems to the attention of those people and that system that we have dedicated our efforts to? And, no, none of the chapters I advise have ever been closed. A local chapter did close, probably for good, but it was before I became involved in the Division.

I will say this, 33 -- I admire your spirit and sometimes (perhaps even often) agree with you. And you make your points with eloquence. I wish we had been standing side by side in the 60's during those turbulent times of unrest when I was, in fact, 19. Even as we grow older, though, as you were so kind to point out, the "passion" does remain. But as we gain in our life's experiences it is not uncommon to become frustrated as errors are repeated time and again.

Finally, I don't believe that everyone on GC has his/her head in the sand. But read through some of the posts on "Hazing is good," or "Anti Hazing has gone too far." I submit that what you consider negativity (pointing out adverse and natural consequences) may be necessary to counter some of that stupidity.

Although I don't totally agree with concept of "tough love," my experience tells me that standing silent can be more damaging than pointing out those consequences.

Fraternally,
DeltAlum

[33girl]

Hey Delt Alum -

You're right - there are idiots out there who need to be told over and over. Unfortunately, the ones who need it most hear it the least. We haven't heard from Gaspard since his little "hazing is good" hit & run post.

I don't think we should be silent, but I think having the link would be sufficient. I just know how I would feel if every time I came on here, there was another "incident" listed involving my sorority. I feel I'm doing what I can (as probably a lot of alums & alum volunteers do) and it would be like getting slapped in the face.

Education is sorely needed. I just don't think this board is the place to do it, that's all.

Sorry if this ia a little incoherent but the caffeine has not kicked in yet.

[DeltAlum]

Hi again, 33,

You always make your point just fine, with or without caffeine. I wish I could agree with you. But again, respectfully, I can't.

I'm afraid that I don't think enough of the right people will link to Fraternal News to make a difference here. My gut tells me that this is the forum to get the information to the most Greeks.

And if I seem relentless, I simply recall something I learned in speech, advertising, journalism and marketing classes in that far distant past:

"You tell 'em what you're gonna tell 'em, then you tell 'em, then you tell 'em what you told 'em."

Hopefully that will get the message through. Sometimes, though, like a mule, you have to smack someone in the head to get his/her attention before you can get any movement.

In the end the people who "get it" already aren't the ones we have to convince.

DeltAlum

[sigmagrrl]

Originally posted by DeltAlum:
"You tell 'em what you're gonna tell 'em, then you tell 'em, then you tell 'em what you told 'em."

I agree that posting these articles here is what has to be done. In this day and age when we all KNOW that our National organizations are DESPERATELY trying to get us to understand that ALCOHOL RUINS CHAPTERS AND LIVES, WHY does this continue to happen? What is it going to take for GLO's to STOP this irresponsible behavior and start taking responsibility for our personal choices...I feel you take on the honorable task of being an example of your GLO and your actions ALWAYS refelct back on your chapter and organization. When you pick up that second beer, what is going through your mind? What about when you pick up the 7th? When will binge drinking STOP running rampant through the Greek system, and when will it stop DESTROYING hundreds of years of history and hard work? Do you ever pick up a drink and wonder "What would one of my GLO's founders say if they saw me defaming the name of the organization they worked so hard to create?

Why is everyone so afraid to talk about it? When incidents happen that put us in a bad light, you want to sweep it under the carpet and no one wants to blame the feeble minded, selfish individuals who fu*ked their organization, but when you do something good, you want the praise. You have to take the good with the bad. We need the bad to become less frequent and start associating ourselves with service, love, and sisterhood/brotherhood...This CANNOT happen when alcohol has ANY role in your chapter activities...What you do on your own time is one thing, but the minute another sister or brother is with you, you become GLO members out drinking. As much as you may not like that statement, it is true....TAKE PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR ACTIONS!! OWN YOUR BEHAVIOR AND CHOICES! When did it become ok to justify and defend illegal behavior because you believe it is the staus quo? Or because "everyone else" is "doing it"? Or "that's what you do in college"? These are EXCUSES that are used to pass the buck off of yourself! NO ONE PUT THE BEER IN THEIR HANDS OR ANYONE'S HANDS! And no one said you had to join a GLO. But you did, and with that comes privileges and duty to honor the name and those letters you worked hard for for 8 weeks. When you agree to become a member, you had better be damn sure that you are AWARE and ABLE to handle the consequences of your actions and the ramifications of poor judgement. Because, let me tell you, you are flagrantly disrespecting your ENTIRE organization when you disrespect yourself with alcohol and it affects your chapter!

OK, I think I'm done for now...

Signed,
A Sigma Sigma Sigma sister that wants Greek Life to PROSPER!

[gphi2k]

Okay, here's my problem with this whole thing. I completely agree that we greeks need to remain educated on the important issues surrounding hazing and alcohol abuse in fraternaties and sororities. No one on this site is going to suggest for a minute that it does not exist. But there is one major problem. If XYZ in cityland gets closed for hazing, it makes XYZ everywhere look bad.

This reminds me of a huge expose 20/20 (I think) did on a hazing incident that caused the death of one of the pledges pledging a certain fraternity. It was a horrible tragic story, and forever tainted the name of the Fraternity involved. The story would have been just as effective by telling the story as an example, but leaving out the name of the actual fraternity. Countless other threads on this site alone have discussed the differences chapter to chapter, state to state, even country to country. Yes, it is true that every chapter of every greek org should consider the ramifications of their actions on the greater organization, beyond the bounds of their chapter. But should I be embarrased to say I belong to XYZ because of what some idiots in cityland did, when I live in nowheresville, thousands of miles away? One bad seed should not destroy the name of an entire organization. Singling out chapters and schools of organizations who have idiots running the show only speaks badly of the school mentioned and the greater organization. Share the horror stories if need be. Maybe we all need a wake up call now and again to remind us of what can happen or of what does happen. I will not debate the merits of sharing these stories. But what good does it do to single out the names of the particular school and Fraternity or soritity involved? If I hear a chapter at whatsville was closed for abuse of alcohol, it won't have anymore impact for me where that school was or what org was involved.

It is for percisely this reason that my school does not recognize the greek system on my campus. Because one person, or one chapter, can forever taint the name of an entire school, or an entire organization. That is a potential that I, as a greek, and as an aluma, would hate to see happen to my organization, or to anyone else's.


[This message has been edited by gphi2k (edited June 17, 2001).]

[DeltAlum]

According to Fraternal News, San Jose State University closed down the ATO chapter there recently due to alcohol and hazing.

I'm not going to get into details, but you might be interested in reading about it.

Stupidity reigns.

DeltAlum

[Tom Earp]

While I agree with most things said, we as Alums all know that alcohol is on the minds of all nationals and that is why they are going to Dry houses.
Let's get serious, there will be alchol at partys but how is it taken care of?
I rode one weekend with the designated driver to pick up Brothers of legal age who could not drive. !!! This is something that was started 3 years ago and I find it refreshing that someone would stay at the house to do this. It was explained to them, that it was better to have Des. Driver than carry the casket to the ground!
I find nothing wrong with alchol as I was in the Business for 22 years at all levels excet a bar business. The main thing is how it is used and how much. If to the detriment then I say No.
These young people are on their own for the first time and get a lot crazy. The older , maybe a year or 2 must guide them. It is not the first time they ever had the evil spirits as most partied in HS where it was great to get drunk and stupid. They soon learn that they are looked at with a jaundiced eye and will not be around long because
Lets admit folds the reason you go to college is to learn and graduate so you can work the rest of you lives. If not you are flipping burgers or greasing a car or mowing lawns, digging a ditch. Some steam has to be blown off and it is better you are with your Brothers/Sisters who can take care of you or on you own where you may caus a death, yours or someone elses.
The intolerence today has become a rebellion point an I will show them. That is where the problem stems!
As you see i never edit! I say in my heart!

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Tom Earp LX Z#1
Pittsburg State U. (Kansas)

[33girl]

Tom,

bravo....bravo....(applause sounds)

[James]

Much as I love you guys some of you are killing me. I mean like slowly driving a stake through my heart . . . a very blunt stake and slow hammer strokes . . .

Drinking, partying, etc. are value neutral activities.

This means, if someone wants to make this into a negative issue they have to do exactly that: Create/spin a negative slant on the issue.

The operative word being SPIN.

Alcohol is a MORAL issue to most people against drinking. And most of the people I have met are careful to say that they aren't against drinking, just irresponsible drinking, however, they usually define irresponsible drinking as anytime that drinking impairs you. I have actually stood there and heard people shake their heads with disgust and say "Can you believe they drank to feel it! Or get drunk?"

Jesus Wept.

Earth to your planet: Alcohol does not taste good people drink it to feel it. Why else deal with the calories and the negative physiological effects?

If you have a personal thing against drinking alcohol, which is usually a matter of upbringing or a factor of control, you need to deal with it and not try to make others suffer for it.

About posting negative articles. It's a fine idea, shit happens, why hide from it? I understand the concerns of people not wanting to scare potential Rushes away, but posting these articles actually gives us the ability to place them in perspective and perhaps defuse rumors.

If alcohol is a moral issue to many people, for us as Greeks it must be a liability issue, and what we really need to do is sharpen our skills at avoiding or transferring liability. Risk Management is ABOUT avoiding and transferring liability. And maybe it would be more honest to teach it that way. The point of a third party vendor is to transfer liability to someone else for serving alcohol. If a tour group runs a ski trip, they have liability you don't. The first commandment of Risk Management, if something goes wrong, and it eventually will, you want someone else stuck with the bill and the responsibility.

[DeltAlum]

It is somehow appropriate that someone who shares a name with one of the twelve diciples would quote the shortest verse in the Bible -- although I think I missed the context.

Anyway, I pretty much agree with James with a couple of exceptions. Some people do like the taste of alcoholic beverages. I do and have since I was a small child. I have no problem whatsoever with drinking. I don't drink much anymore, but that's more of an age thing than anything else.

I do feel concern for those who drink to excess. There's real danger there. Just because I lived through it doesn't mean you will.

The liability issue (and thus the dry housing and third party vendor idea)isn't going to go away in the near future. Just today I read in Fraternal News that the parents of an ATO pledge who died after allegedly forced drinking at a pledge function has sued the Fraternity for $5.3 million dollars. I hope that National has very deep pockets or excellent insurance, because one judgement like that will close most Greek organizations.

On the good news side Lamda Chi is returning to Iowa (I think) after and absence there which was caused by an alcohol related death.

Fraternally,
DeltAlum

To correct a typo...


[This message has been edited by DeltAlum (edited August 01, 2001).]