Dirty Rushing

My daughter experienced dirty rushing. As a result she did not receive a bid. She is extremely hurt and feels betrayed. I am not sure how to handle the situation. Any advice would be appreciated.

[carnation]

Recently?

Can you define "dirty rushing"?

[Titchou]

And how did that action- whatever it was- cause her not to get a bid?

She attended a house all through rush. All the girls told her she was in. On pref night she asked the girls in that sorority if she should intentionally only write down one choice. Two members told her separately to pref their house first but rank 2 sororities and that she had nothing to worry about should would be in their sorority inferring only ranking one would be a problem. She did that and on bid day she did not receive a bid from that house. All week she was honest and vulnerable and they were intentionally or unintentionally lying. The sorority she received a bid from had made a derogatory remark to her so she politely declined their bid. We spoke to panhel today and they said the sorority that dirty rushed her needs to fix the problem and we should call their nationals. If we call their nationals it could create a blackballing issue for her if she decides to rush again. We asked if she could do informal but panhel said no. I truly do not believe that this sorority was malicious in their intent but that something happened with calculations BUT someone needs to fix or correct the mistake.

[carnation]

Originally Posted by Tdlegacy

She attended a house all through rush. All the girls told her she was in. On pref night she asked the girls in that sorority if she should intentionally only write down one choice. Two members told her separately to pref their house first but rank 2 sororities and that she had nothing to worry about should would be in their sorority inferring only ranking one would be a problem. She did that and on bid day she did not receive a bid from that house. All week she was honest and vulnerable and they were intentionally or unintentionally lying. The sorority she received a bid from had made a derogatory remark to her so she politely declined their bid. We spoke to panhel today and they said the sorority that dirty rushed her needs to fix the problem and we should call their nationals. If we call their nationals it could create a blackballing issue for her if she decides to rush again. We asked if she could do informal but panhel said no. I truly do not believe that this sorority was malicious in their intent but that something happened with calculations BUT someone needs to fix or correct the mistake.

Oh, well--then she did get a bid. But I can guarantee that the first sorority can not and will not offer her a bid. They have no doubt made quota.

[AZTheta]

Originally Posted by Tdlegacy

She attended a house all through rush. All the girls told her she was in. On pref night she asked the girls in that sorority if she should intentionally only write down one choice. Two members told her separately to pref their house first but rank 2 sororities and that she had nothing to worry about should would be in their sorority inferring only ranking one would be a problem. She did that and on bid day she did not receive a bid from that house. All week she was honest and vulnerable and they were intentionally or unintentionally lying. The sorority she received a bid from had made a derogatory remark to her so she politely declined their bid. We spoke to panhel today and they said the sorority that dirty rushed her needs to fix the problem and we should call their nationals. If we call their nationals it could create a blackballing issue for her if she decides to rush again. We asked if she could do informal but panhel said no. I truly do not believe that this sorority was malicious in their intent but that something happened with calculations BUT someone needs to fix or correct the mistake.

Re: bolded #1. We weren't there. Don't know what was said. Can't even speculate. I will say that recruitment is exhausting and these are young women running on very little sleep. And I mean both the pnms and the actives.

Re: bolded #2. If your daughter attended pref, she was on the sorority's bid list. However, apparently she wasn't high enough on the bid list before they reached quota. Nothing "happened with calculations". That's how it works. It's math. And there's no "someone" to "fix or correct the mistake" because there wasn't a mistake. It's how the numbers worked out for your daughter. If it is helpful for you to learn more about RFM (release figures methodology) let us know. Because it really is math.

Maybe I did not explain the situation well enough. My intention was to ask for advice for anyone who has been in this situation. We are well aware of the rules of recruitment. She was told all week that she would be in the sorority. After the sorority girls on the last day told her who would be her big and what the date party would be and you are in for sure did she ask about if she should only write their name down because she was told if she did that a sorority would put you name at the bottom of the list. I do not think that is a bad question to ask if all sororities handle it differently. Her rho gams would not specifically know every sororities position on intentional bidding. Both panhel and an officer of the sorority have reached out to us to say the behavior of the sorority was wrong because they are trained in what they can and cannot say. As far as the bid she did not accept a girl in that chapter made a derogatory remark to her. I would not allow her to join a sorority that did that during recruitment. We have some of the dirty rushing in writing and witnesses to the derogatory remark. If anyone has been through this kind of situation and has any advice I would appreciate it. Panhel told her to contact the National chapter and the NPC. I am just not sure if that is the right thing to do. Please do not give parenting advice. I know she should live with disappointment and inferring that a 17 year old did something wrong is a judgement that is not needed right now. Please only comment if you have been through this type of situation and any advice you can provide in how to handle it.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by Tdlegacy

Maybe I did not explain the situation well enough. My intention was to ask for advice for anyone who has been in this situation. We are well aware of the rules of recruitment. She was told all week that she would be in the sorority. After the sorority girls on the last day told her who would be her big and what the date party would be and you are in for sure did she ask about if she should only write their name down because she was told if she did that a sorority would put you name at the bottom of the list. I do not think that is a bad question to ask if all sororities handle it differently. Her rho gams would not specifically know every sororities position on intentional bidding. Both panhel and an officer of the sorority have reached out to us to say the behavior of the sorority was wrong because they are trained in what they can and cannot say. As far as the bid she did not accept a girl in that chapter made a derogatory remark to her. I would not allow her to join a sorority that did that during recruitment. We have some of the dirty rushing in writing and witnesses to the derogatory remark. If anyone has been through this kind of situation and has any advice I would appreciate it. Panhel told her to contact the National chapter and the NPC. I am just not sure if that is the right thing to do. Please do not give parenting advice. I know she should live with disappointment and inferring that a 17 year old did something wrong is a judgement that is not needed right now. Please only comment if you have been through this type of situation and any advice you can provide in how to handle it.

You're asking sorority women about sorority recruitment. I think we all have some right to answer here. You asked a question, so we're providing responses. I don't think that any information you've been provided was in any way disparaging your daughter or judging your parenting skills.

Yes, your daughter asking that question of them might have turned them off or put them in a tight spot. Might have. None of us can say for sure. We weren't there. But again, that's what her recruitment counselor is for - to discuss her options. RFM applies to all of the sororities equally. And if she thought she was being dirty rushed, she should have brought it to someone's attention sooner and she shouldn't have asked that question of the chapter members that were dirty rushing her.

However, you ended your second post saying that you don't believe the sorority did anything malicious and you think there were miscalculations made. It was explained why miscalculations were not the issue.

Now you're saying there's evidence of and witnesses to the dirty rushing and you're asking if you should potentially send this up the chain of command.

Ultimately, it's your daughter's decision. But in my opinion, if she makes this a big deal now, she may kill any chance she has of joining a sorority. Since recruitment is over and she only brought this to someone's attention after she didn't get the bid she wanted, it may come back to bite her. Not pointing fingers here! But I'm sure that would be an argument made against her. But there's relatively few details for us to go on, so saying to do one thing over another is difficult without all of the facts in front of us. I'm not saying you should provide them all, but that's the position we're in here.

[AZTheta]

+1 to all the posts. You guys are spot on.

Originally Posted by Tdlegacy

After the sorority girls on the last day told her who would be her big and what the date party would be and you are in for sure did she ask about if she should only write their name down because she was told if she did that a sorority would put you name at the bottom of the list. I do not think that is a bad question to ask if all sororities handle it differently.

Another clarification although you said you are well aware of the rules of recruitment: that is not how it works. Only a very few people know the order of the bid list (usually the Recruitment Chair, her Advisor, maybe one or two others). When the sororities make their bid lists, there's no way they know if a PNM SIP'ed! That's way past impossible. How would they even know? I can't imagine any scenario that wouldn't stretch the boundaries of credibility. The PNMs are submitting their signed MRABAs with their selections in a completely different physical place. No interactions with any sororities. It's all handled in a professional, organized, business manner, and I believe the NPC RFM specialist is present for this process, or is available (correct me if I'm wrong). The sororities submit their bid lists separately. THEN bid matching starts (computerized, all of this).

No way a sorority can go back and reorder their list after it has been submitted. Ask me how I know this. Yeah. Mistakes made, oops. Then, voila! Quota additions OR COB, depending on circumstances. Oh the stories some could tell.

A caveat:we have had discussions about recruitment practices. Lots of discussions in the past two years. I'm leaving it at that for now. You can read into this whatever you choose.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by AZTheta

Re: bolded #2. If your daughter attended pref, she was on the sorority's bid list. However, apparently she wasn't high enough on the bid list before they reached quota. Nothing "happened with calculations". That's how it works. It's math. And there's no "someone" to "fix or correct the mistake" because there wasn't a mistake. It's how the numbers worked out for your daughter. If it is helpful for you to learn more about RFM (release figures methodology) let us know. Because it really is math.

100% this. It doesn't sound like there were any miscalculations at all.

Now, perhaps there was some dirty rushing going on, but...

Originally Posted by Tdlegacy

On pref night she asked the girls in that sorority if she should intentionally only write down one choice. Two members told her separately to pref their house first but rank 2 sororities and that she had nothing to worry about should would be in their sorority inferring only ranking one would be a problem. She did that and on bid day she did not receive a bid from that house.

Your daughter asked if she should put only their sorority down? If that's the case, it sounds like she played a part in setting herself up for disappointment and perhaps made for an awkward situation for the active sisters. They might have even been pulling for her to join their sorority right up until she asked this question.

And it actually sounds like they gave her good advice in listing both sororities. Perhaps this was to assist your daughter in having a successful recruitment, or maybe it was to save themselves after she asked this question because it turned them off, or maybe it was for another reason entirely.

Were they in the wrong? Perhaps. Should your daughter have asked them that question? No - that was a discussion she should have had with her recruitment counselor.

We all learn, and sometimes it's the hard way. However, your daughter did receive a bid. She chose to decline it, and she has to live with her results and her decision. If she would still like to join a sorority, I would encourage her to try again the next time she's able and simply work on having good conversations with the active sisters, getting to know them, and letting the chips fall where they may without looking for the promise of a bid.

Good luck to her!

[SWTXBelle]

No member can know in advance where a pnm will be on the bid list.Nothing happened with calculations other than she wasn't high enough on their bid list. Having listed sororities on her card, she cannot rush for one year. The time to report dirty rushing is during rush. At this point, there's nothing to be done. She refused a bid from the house that wanted her.

[thetalady]

Originally Posted by Tdlegacy

My daughter experienced dirty rushing. As a result she did not receive a bid. She is extremely hurt and feels betrayed. I am not sure how to handle the situation. Any advice would be appreciated.

How to handle the situation? STEP BACK. This is not your rush. Your daughter should be a big girl at this point. Let her handle it. She walked away from a bid in her hand. That is certainly her prerogative. I can't imagine what they might have said to her that was so derogatory, but her choice.

Now she has to live with the consequences of her choice. She has a year to think about what to do next time rush rolls around. She will survive.

Thetalady,

It was body shaming and laughing at her. Not sure about the intentions of it but my daughter has recently been bullied for the same issue so the damage is done. She set up a meeting with the Dorothy president to explain the situation. Hopefully this does not bite her in the ass later. Thank you for your response.

[OldFLDDD]

You've gotten lots of good advice and information here. There is nothing to be gained by going to the national office, except for them to speak with this chapter with reminders about what can and can't be said during recruitment--which is not going to have any kind of positive impact on your daughter. As others have mentioned, recruitment is exhausting and emotionally tolling on both sides--but particularly for those on the other side. A lot of these girls are still teenagers and mean well and may have been saying all of these things to your daughter because they LOVED her and wanted her to list them first on her MRABA. But it is *highly* unlikely that any of these girls knew where she'd fall on their bid list, and therefore were not able to "promise" her anything--all bid promising rules aside. I'll never forget an absolutely darling girl that went through when I was an active--I loved her to death, the ultimate rush crush. I talked and talked her up but she still didn't land high enough on our bid list to get her. I was crushed, and I know she was as well. Fortunately, I had never made any kind of promise or implied in any way that she'd get a bid from us. I just don't see how your daughter has anything to gain from taking this any higher than her school's panhellenic office. They should report it back to the house, which would prompt extra "reminding" for the actives next year.

OldFLDDD
Thank you for your thoughtful reply. She has many friends in the house and they were all talking about scoring her high so I genuinely believe they thought she was at the top of the list. An officer of the sorority apologized to my daughter because she truly believed she was getting a bid and understood what members were saying to her. At this point she will not make a complaint and was encouraged that someone admitted that they did not treat her fairly even if it was unintentional.