Marriage and Divorce

[LeslieAGD]

It seems to me that people who barely know each other rush into marriage and their marriages tend to last about as long as they dated. I feel that too many people get married with the idea that "if this doesn't work out, there's always divorce." How do you feel about this? What is your opinion/stance on divorce? Do you feel people should know each other a certain length of time before entering into marriage? If so, what time frame do you think is appropriate? Does this change as people get older?

[bcdphie]

Leslie, I agree with you - it seems like so many people nowadays are getting married knowing that there's an out if they need. I however, don't believe in this - for me if I had to get divorce, I would view that as a failure in my life. My grandparents have been married close to 60 years, my parents, aunts and uncles have all been married well over 30 years. Both my bf and I think it's horrible that some people go into marriage with the idea that they can get divorced - when I get married I will be thinking I want to be with this person forever, not, well if things go bust I can get out of this. Sometimes the option of divorce is better, but in this day and age it just seems like part of the cycle.

[aephi alum]

I agree, Leslie. The vows you take when you get married are for life. That's not to say that divorce is not an option if you've been married for a while and you're miserable, or your husband turns out to be a wife-beater, etc. But you shouldn't be standing up there in your tux or your white dress, saying "...to have and to hold from this day forward... until death do us part" while thinking "or until we get divorced".

At the end of the day, when a couple gets divorced, each member of the couple loses, and any children involved certainly lose. The only people who win are the lawyers.

[valkyrie]

Well, the thing is, though, that people may go into a marriage with the best of intentions, not even THINKING that they may ever want to get a divorce. However, sometimes (often, probably) things don't work out as we originally anticipated or hoped, and divorce becomes a possibility. You may have been with someone for several years before getting married, and it still might not work out. It happens all the time, and is unfortunate, but I think that if you are not happy in a marriage, you shouldn't stay in it. It's hard to have the same arguments over and over and over again and never get anywhere. Until you experience it, you can't really understand.

I don't know if divorce is always a bad thing for kids. My parents are still married, but honestly when I was younger I used to wish that they would get a divorce because they would fight (by fight I mean argue like cats & dogs) all the time. I love my parents very much, but that's not good for a kid, either.

Honestly, though, marriage is very, very hard. I don't really think that most people are suited for being with one and only one person for the rest of their lives.

[aephi alum]

Originally posted by valkyrie
Well, the thing is, though, that people may go into a marriage with the best of intentions, not even THINKING that they may ever want to get a divorce. However, sometimes (often, probably) things don't work out as we originally anticipated or hoped, and divorce becomes a possibility.

Very true. What I have a problem with, is a bride or groom standing up there on their wedding day thinking "eh, if things don't work out we'll just get divorced" - rather than thinking "if things aren't working out, we'll try to work them out." If you don't honestly believe that this is the one person you want to be with for the long haul, the person who will stick with you through thick and thin, then hold off on making that commitment. If problems come up later on, that's when you sit down and talk, go to marriage counseling, and ultimately, if there is no other solution, you get divorced.

[AKA2D '91]

Sometimes divorce comes about because one or both parties has decided they do not want to be married anymore.

This lady told me when she got married many years ago, she KNEW she would only stay married for 10 years. She said the day after her 10th anniversary, she filed for divorce. She had 2 children, but that didn't matter. Her husband worked off-shore, therefore he wasn't home regularly, but she knew she was only staying for 10 years. When she revealed this, I was totally, and .

Her "testimony" showed me that some of these divorces could come from on or the other, or both not wanting to be married. It sounds crazy, but it is another take on the topic.

[Dionysus]

IMO a lot of divorces have occurred lately because A. People these days have no concept of what commitment means. B. People are more
selfish now, and a good marriage is based on sacrifice. C. People marry for the wrong reasons, such as neediness, for money,
or out of loneliness.

[valkyrie]

Dionysus, I agree with you in part and disagree in part.

What does commitment mean? I think that to an extent, you have to be committed to your relationship, but to me at least, the first thing in my life is commitment to *myself* and my happiness. I can't be committed to anything else if I'm not happy in my own heart and mine.

I agree that to an extent, marriage is based upon sacrifice. But you can go to the extreme on anything...yes, there are things you sacrifice for the greater good of a marriage. However, I think there comes a point where enough is enough. I at least don't want to go through life sacrificing so much of myself for a relationship that there is nothing left of me. Maybe I am selfish (I probably am) but I truly believe that unless you put yourself first, you are really no good to anyone else. Also, with sacrifice there must be balance, because if one person is sacrificing a lot and the other isn't, it's really unfair and bound to lead to trouble.

I hope this makes sense. Today I have had far too much coffee and not enough food, and that tends to make me a little goofy.

[Dionysus]

What does commitment mean? I think that to an extent, you have to be
committed to your relationship, but to me at least, the first thing in my life is
commitment to *myself* and my happiness. I can't be committed to anything
else if I'm not happy in my own heart and mine.

Committment to me means, that when you enter something you'll stay for better or worse. And, no I'm not talking about abuse or anything. As JAM said in another thread, life is composed of tides. And, so are relationships, not every thing will be good all the time. A lot of folks leave relationships, when things get less than perfect thinking it will stay thay way forever.

I agree that to an extent, marriage is based upon sacrifice. But you can go to
the extreme on anything...yes, there are things you sacrifice for the greater good
of a marriage. However, I think there comes a point where enough is enough. I at
least don't want to go through life sacrificing so much of myself for a relationship
that there is nothing left of me. Maybe I am selfish (I probably am) but I truly
believe that unless you put yourself first, you are really no good to anyone else.
Also, with sacrifice there must be balance, because if one person is sacrificing a
lot and the other isn't, it's really unfair and bound to lead to trouble.

Sorry, I left that out. Sacrifice DEFINATELY should be mutual!

[LeslieAGD]

Originally posted by aephi alum
Very true. What I have a problem with, is a bride or groom standing up there on their wedding day thinking "eh, if things don't work out we'll just get divorced" - rather than thinking "if things aren't working out, we'll try to work them out." If you don't honestly believe that this is the one person you want to be with for the long haul, the person who will stick with you through thick and thin, then hold off on making that commitment. If problems come up later on, that's when you sit down and talk, go to marriage counseling, and ultimately, if there is no other solution, you get divorced.

As usual, you hit it right on the head...this is exactly what I was referring to. I think the problem is that people tend to skip the "try to work things out" part and go straight for divorce. I don't believe people try as hard because divorce has become too easy.

To AKA2D......IMO, people like that have no business being married unless it's to other people that feel the same. I also think it's shameful for these people to bring kids into the mix when they know that in X-amount of years, they plan to pull them away from the family they've grown up with.

[Hootie]

I don't believe length of time has anything to do with love...but as far as trully KNOWING a person, yes. I believe a lot of people rush into things...I know Will and I did. But we also had different situations where living together ultimately hurt our relationship.

I do believe divorce is too easy. I would hate to think about divorce. A lot of people have recently said "You should be glad you know now that the relationship ended than later and in divorce." I agree but it doesn't help to hear that. Cuz I know that a lot of people don't want to work things out...they give up too easily....and I am not that sort of person. But this is getting personal...so I digress.

Hootie

[aggieAXO]

Valkyrie,

I swear we were separated by birth b/c I feel the exact same way on almost everything you say about any topic . Growing up with parents fighting is not healthy at all and it has really hurt my outlook on marriage. They FINALLY got a divorce when I was 13 (Thank GOD). My grandparents were married for 65 years but my grandmother was miserable for many of those years b/c my grandfather cheated on her and would run off with other women-that is no way to live you life misearble for the sake of marriage. I am sure when she took the vows of marriage she wasn't expecting him to cheat on her.

I agree that alot of people are getting married to quickly. My borther married his ex wife after 6 months of dating-they just divorced last month after 2.5 years of marriage. I knew it was a mistake and my family and her family tried to talk them out of getting married and to date longer but they wouldn't listen. However, as said previously dating longer does not guarantee that it will work out. I think if I get married I will insist on counseling also even if things are peachy.

Originally posted by valkyrie
Well, the thing is, though, that people may go into a marriage with the best of intentions, not even THINKING that they may ever want to get a divorce. However, sometimes (often, probably) things don't work out as we originally anticipated or hoped, and divorce becomes a possibility. You may have been with someone for several years before getting married, and it still might not work out. It happens all the time, and is unfortunate, but I think that if you are not happy in a marriage, you shouldn't stay in it. It's hard to have the same arguments over and over and over again and never get anywhere. Until you experience it, you can't really understand.

I don't know if divorce is always a bad thing for kids. My parents are still married, but honestly when I was younger I used to wish that they would get a divorce because they would fight (by fight I mean argue like cats & dogs) all the time. I love my parents very much, but that's not good for a kid, either.

Honestly, though, marriage is very, very hard. I don't really think that most people are suited for being with one and only one person for the rest of their lives.

[sugar and spice]

First, if anybody's buying into the myth that the divorce rate has risen steeply in the past 10 years or so -- don't. If what I remember is correct, the divorce rate has remained relatively constant since the 1960s/1970s. And I don't think it's a coincidence that the change took place alongside all the political chaos of the 1960s. Everyone these days is a lot less likely to stick in a marriage that isn't working, and I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.

The thing is that things have changed a lot in the past century, and people no longer marry for the same reasons as they once did. I don't think that divorce should be anything to look down upon, as long as:

1) both people are in agreement

and

2) there aren't any children involved (which will make the decision trickier, but shouldn't necessarily change the outcome).

That said, I don't think I would ever walk down the aisle with somebody I don't think I could spend my entire life with, but at the same time I don't think there's any problem with other people doing that as long as they're both on the same page.