worried

OnePlus69Is70 · #1 08-01-2002, 08:39 PM

I'm worried about our Greek system. I'm afraid it won't last the decade. In the past 10 years, average chapter size is down more than 50%. The system has gone from 1800 to 800. Average pledge classes are below replacement size. Last spring, 5 houses had no pledges. Three houses folded last year- one mostly because the brothers were more interested in dealing coke than being a fraternity. There's very little social interaction between houses. The men's houses are wrecked. Greek Week was lame. And the opinion on campus is that Greeks are stupid alcoholics.

So....I dunno. I could use a ray of hope right about now. I know my house will last while I'm here, but that's not much comfort. Ugh. Anyone got anything that will cheer me up?

AlphaSigLana · #2 08-01-2002, 08:57 PM

I read your post under the serenading thread and it sounds like you have a bad attitude about social greeks just like GDI's. I understand that you are in a ethnic sorority/fraternity(am i mistaken?), but it sounds like you're not in a social glo. Anyway you talked about the drunken sluts etc so I'd say if negative attitudes from people in GLOs no matter if they're social or not permeate then no, Greek life will not survive. Who wants to joins a group that doesn't get a positive perception.

OnePlus69Is70 · #3 08-01-2002, 09:05 PM

Nope, we're a social fraternity, not ethnic. And my attitude is relatively upbeat- most of my brothers don't even expect our house to last. I have to keep a good face on around them- I'm the oldest brother, I've been there the longest, they just look to me when things go wrong. The youngest set I almost think of as my kids.

I don't like having to hide my letters in public because people take offense at them. I don't like having only two pledges because 90% of the guys looking to get recruited are unacceptable. I don't like dealing with sororities who are only interested in who's got the most beer in the back room. And I especially don't like having to the why's of all this to the other guys. I want to be at a school where people at least make a pretense of making their Greek system work properly.

I'm sorry to be venting, I'm just frustrated.

kddani · #4 08-01-2002, 09:07 PM

OnePlus- having a negative, pessimistic attitude isn't going to change anything. If you are sincerly worried, go out there and do something. I've always been a proponent of getting off your butt and doing something about whatever bothers you.
I also agree with AlphaSigLana that after reading your other posts, you really do seem to have a bad attitude. People with bad attitudes and that trash talk the greek system are part of the reason of it's downfall.
You don't like the stereotypes and attitudes towards greeks, get off the computer and go do something. Greek week is lame? Run for a chair. Reach out to freshman and other potential new members. Spend your time and energy doing positive instead of negative and it will change. My house had a bad attitude like yours at one point in time, then we got a few new people in and with a little help from advisors, we totally changed out attitude and presentation on campus--- we went from being at a little half over total to being over total.
Like Nike says, just do it!

OnePlus69Is70 · #5 08-01-2002, 09:26 PM

and it's as it usually is.....people from other places don't understand. They act like I've blasphemed because I question the integrity of Greek Life. Do you have any idea what a Polyanna you sound like from my end? Run for a chair?!?! We had a house closed because its members were running a cocaine ring, and I'm supposed to run for a chair and hold a parade and make everything better?

:: sigh :: My house is a good house. But I am frustrated that every time I turn around, some other force seems to be gathering to ruin things. I wrote hoping that someone else would say, oh, we were in a tight spot like that, but we pulled out fine, don't worry. But I suppose admitting something like that would mean getting off the bandwagon.

fire1977 · #6 08-01-2002, 09:28 PM

I totally understand your need to vent, however, I completely agree with KDdani. If you want it to change then do something to change it. It only takes one person with a different attitude to change it. It's very easy to say something is broke, it's a lot more work to fix it.

Good luck...I'm sure you're not the only one who feels that way...so find those people and get to work!

kddani · #7 08-01-2002, 09:36 PM

Oneplus, i'm also from a northern school with a very northern greek system, style-wise i know what you're talking about. You have no right to call me a Polyanna, what the heck is that supposed to mean anyway????
I didn't tell you to hold a friggin' parade. Run for president of IFC or whatever the governing body there is...... stop your b!tching and start doing something about it. It's not going to magically make itself better. You sitting around b!tching about it sure as heck ain't gonna fix anything!
So many of your posts on here have been so negative and talking badly about everyone else but you and your house. You said some pretty nasty things about NPC sorority members in one of your posts. If that's your attitude, i sure don't blame them for not wanting to do anything with your group. If you read my post you'll see that I said there had been a negativity problem in my house and that with a few positive people we were able to overcome it. Sorry we can't snap our fingers and start making the cocaine rings disappear, but that's more a matter for the police to handle.
If you go around calling sorority girls sluts and people trying to give you advice Polyanna's, then you're in the position that you deserve to be in.
One word that Aretha said best: R-E-S-P-E-C-T
You're not going to get any if you don't give it.

GreekGuide · #8 08-01-2002, 09:54 PM

As an adviser, I completely agree with KDDani. This experience you are having is happening across campuses all over the U.S. -well maybe with the exception of the coke ring (although, that happens more than you think as well).

While I hate to post long messages, let me just share with you a recent post to the Assoc. of Fraternity Advisers listserv. This message details what's on the minds of Greek Life Advisers across the nation.

Change is not something that is going to happen over night. It is not something that the Greek Advisers can do by themselves or dictate (unless you force us into that position). We rely on student leaders to step up to the plate and help make a difference. It's when apathy such as yours takes over that the system fails. Be a leader. Help make the difference. There are indeed people to help support you. Just reach out. Even if it is to GC.

Here's the post. I encourage all GC's to read this and take it to heart. Please keep in mind that these are just the opinion of two Greek Life Advisers. This is what in their opinions are trends facing our field. I am especially referring to the paragraph begging "Kellogg report"

____________________________________

Although not new, some of the issues about which our organizations and AFA
have to be more knowledgeable include student suicide and self-inflicted
injury, general mental health issues, and the on-going impact of changing
demographics. At the past NASPA conference, presenter Peter Lake indicated
that student suicide and self-inflicted injuries are on the rise, and he
further predicted that this issue will become more problematic for us than
alcohol. At the FEA summer meeting Charles Schroeder indicated that entering
students are more psychologically precarious than those of previous
generations.

Others have predicted that membership selection will continue to come
under scrutiny from external sources. Meanwhile the shift in whom is
matriculating should create conversations within national organizations on
how those shifts impact not only recruitment but also the retention of
members. State budget cuts, students desire/need to work, accessibility of
student credit, the increase in student debt, and a sense of increased
academic disengagement will continue to challenge our organizations.

As parental involvement continues to rise and legal responsibilities
governing student life shift, not only is a new university-national
organization relationship required, we also need a new relationship with
parents. Organizations and campuses need to create opportunities to
encourage, rather than resist, parental involvement. We need to redefine our
relationship with parents while continuing to focus on the developmental
needs of our students.

The Kellogg Commission Report, “Returning to Our Roots: The Student
Experience,” stated: “The biggest educational challenge we face revolves
around developing character, conscience, citizenship, tolerance, civility,
and individual and social responsibility in our students. We dare not ignore
this obligation in a society that sometimes gives the impression that values
such as these are discretionary.” Personally, I can think of no other
organization better positioned to fulfill these challenges than fraternities
and sororities.

All of these scenarios indicate a need for leadership. It will take courage
and clarity, risk and resolve. As we continue on this challenging journey, I
stop and notice the depth of heart in our profession, and I am renewed with
hope and energy that we will succeed.
---------------------------------------------------
Rick Barnes Response:

Unfortunately I anticipate we will continue to deal with many of the same
issues. I do think, however, that the typical topics (alcohol misuse,
hazing, etc) will continue to bring a negative focus on fraternities and
sororities. We will need to get even more strict with rules and
regulations, etc. However, whether it is considered fortunate or not, I
also think we will continue to recognize that these issues aren't just a
topic for fraternity and sorority affairs. These issues are becoming more
and more campuswide, both in reality as well as in recognition.Personally,
I think people are becoming more and more educated about hazing so more is
being reported,
and less is being tolerated, at the high school and college level. So,
while some of the
"same old issues" may appear to be out there, I do think we will have to
respond to them in different ways as we progress into the future.

Likewise, I think fraternities and sororities can expect to receive even
greater expectations from all directions. Host institutions will become
less and less tolerable with regard to bad behavior. General liability
will become an even greater concern as the cost of insurance continues to
rise
and the old days of "boys will be boys" will finally be forgotten. A new
generation of university administrators will reach decision-making levels
and their decisions concerning behavior will be more strict than we have
experienced in the past. Parents are expecting more and more
protection of their children. The general public is expecting that
colleges and universities are "safe havens." All of this will have an
impact on
higher education and the various groups that relate to them, including
fraternities and sororities.

A new generation will begin to be elected to fraternity and sorority
national boards and within the paid leadership of the organizations. This
new generation of leaders will no longer be satisfied with issues of time
and a slow reaction to problems within the organization. This is the
technology generation -- everything is fast and they are quick to respond.
Their expectations for chapters will also increase. This generation of
leaders
will have a new expectation for the fraternity/sorority experience.

Higher education will continue to experience a changed demographic on
college campuses, particularly with regard to race. If fraternities and
sororities want
to survive this change, they too will have to open their doors a little
wider with regard
to acceptance of those who do not look exactly like the "traditional"
member reflected in
the composites of yesteryear.

The current economic issues within our society will have an eventual
effect on fraternity and sorority affairs. Tighter university budgets with
regard to programming, travel, and professional development will have an
effect
on those in administrative levels.Tighter family budgets will result in
mom's and dad's who are no longer able to pay for "extra" things such as
fraternity and sorority dues and therefore more and more students will
have to work to continue to pay for these added expenses. Higher education
and
fraternities and sororities will have to provide this flexibility to their
students/members. Federal and state support for higher education will
certainly take a
hit as more and more requests for funding are being brought to the table
and politicians
have to make hard decisions about taxpayer money.

Finally, a growing trend on college campuses relates to mental health
issues with regard to students. These issues include all aspects of mental
health and while higher education struggles with our best response to these
issues, so will fraternities and sororities.

Higher Education and Fraternity/Sorority Affairs have an opporutunity to
work
cooperatively in order to survive the necessary changes into the
future. Fortunately, the two have had an opportunity throughout the years
to work for the betterment of the students we all serve. Our continued
cooperation will certainly assist this process as we all move with further
progress and development into the future.

XOMichelle · #9 08-01-2002, 09:56 PM

I know what you mean, One Plus. Sometimes, when things don't look good for a chapter, everyone wants to bail. And an attitude of "this chapter is going to fold" makes the chapter MUCH more likely to fold. However, the best way to combat all the anti greek sh** on your campus is to be the best chapter on the inside; which means your entire chapter needs a positive attitude and needs to think you will make it. I mean, if you've made it this far, there must be something good about your chapter that will keep it going.

My advice in helping the campus think that greeks are good: Visible community service. No one can on campus can deny that community service helps the University. And the more people see you involved with that, the less people will have against you.

Food for thought.

OnePlus69Is70 · #10 08-01-2002, 10:03 PM

My posts are usually either negative, or silly- but in real life, unless I have a problem or I'm making a joke, I'm very quiet, so it's all consistent. Tonight they're negative, because a number of things happened at school that have me angry and frustrated. And it's worse because now I need to put a smile on my face and a song in my heart and tell my brothers it's all gonna be OK.

Tonight is just bad. You want constructive? I helped organize Greek Week. I'm helping to organize IFC rush. I made the Greek Life web site. I drive out to school every weekend to help renovate the house. But I'm sick of watching it all go to pot because of other people. I'm sick of being the one going "No, we cannot have a keg at the charity carwash". And I'm not the only one- you haven't been scared until you've seen the NPC advisor start screaming "I hate this school!" Poor thing, she came to us from OU all idealistic.

My own house....you're right, I don't talk about them much. There are times when I love them to death, because they work hard and do the right things. But there are other times....we have the worst grades of any fraternity- and that's a tough thing to pull around here. We always have several guys on probation for grades. We don't work hard enough on recruitment. There's a fair bit of infighting. But at the end of the day, I'm very happy with the house I joined. I don't have any problems with my house that need discussing with outsiders.

And as for our sororities....sorry, but the NPC girls I've dealt with were not of the kind of caliber I'd expect. There are exceptions to the rule, as with anything, and those women are treasures, and I love our local sorority, they're a great group, but......the sum of my experiences with them tells me they're not the sort of people I'd like to have dealings with. Doesn't say a thing about you or your sisters, or any other sororities anywhere, it's just how I feel about things here.

OnePlus69Is70 · #11 08-01-2002, 10:15 PM

I wrote that right after kddani's post- missed the other two. We'll be OK, I'm sure. My chapter won't fold, that I know. But what's a Greek system with one chapter all on its own? I was angry when I found out about the coke ring- because of how stupid it was that they were doing it, but more because that was one less house.

I really do wonder if Greek life has a place anymore......people just don't seem interested in doing the whole 'rah-rah' college thing. They want their professional degree and a place in the "real world".

XOMichelle · #12 08-01-2002, 10:30 PM

Wow, you are down on yourself. You obviously do a lot for Greeks ar your University. I am sure things would have been MUCH worse without you! But no despair. Activities don't need to be rah rah to get noticed or to promote chapter/ campus unity.

You said 800 people in the greek system right? Would you get noticed if you all organized a campus clothing drive at the end of the year? What if IFC and ISC sponsored a band? Maybe show a free movie in your theater or a large classroom every Sunday night. Are those things rah-rah? No. Would normal, non-greek people be involved? Maybe not that many, but I'm sure people would come or donate their clothes. Obviously you can't do this on your own, and it will take other people to help you but it can be done.

And, more likely than not, everyone else in your Greek Community feels the same way you do: discouraged.

cheerio

NatalieCD · #13 08-01-2002, 10:38 PM

Just a piece of advice - talk to your nationals and see what they can do to pull you out of this hole your in. If they can't do anything abou it, talk to your school and see if they can do more for greek life in general.

I'm sorry to hear about the coke ring - and yes as somebody stated, it happens more than you think. If that can bring down one person, imagine the effects it can do on an whole organization.

I hope things get better for you. Talk to your organization and see what their plans are for the year. see what they are intersted in, and what the campus is interested in. Get some excitment back in your life, that's what greek life is all about!

Hope it helped

Smile!!!

SaintXCPi · #14 08-01-2002, 10:44 PM

I'm from really close to Amherst, and so I "actually" understand.Coming home from school this summer is pretty strange... People from this area are most defenetly "anti-greek"and more extreme liberals, especially in this 5 college area with 3 out of the 5 not having greek systems, or strong ones at that. When I went out the other night, wearing my lettered sweatshirt, people were giving me weird looks....Since I've been back I havn't seen ANY letters around either. I guess it has a lot to do with location, different schools have stronger systems and support. There is no reason why UMass can't grow... with rising enrollment and all that... just advertise more, and emphasize all the good things.

KSig RC · #15 08-01-2002, 10:47 PM

Ladies - lay off the man.

He didn't pass the buck here really, and there's no reason to assume he's doing anything but busting his ass for the greek system at UMass/Amhurst. Even if you're from the North, New England can be a harsh place for greek life sometimes - it's just not ingrained there like it is at home for me (in the Midwest). (also - I haven't found your attitude to be overly negative, but that's purely an aside)

So instead of less-than-helpful suggestions like "do something about it", how about WHAT can be done? XOMichelle had some good ideas . . . so let's start with system-wide things:

-co-sponser a concert etc for the incoming freshman, and splash "GREEK LIFE PRESENTS..." all over it - then rush the hell out of kids while you're there.

-Push more multi-house social events - even system-wide. Work out bar nights, etc where houses can interact with each other, meet new people, and break down the barriers between houses. Also, make it open to randoms, and see if reputation can be improved there too.

-Pool resources from the school etc to create larger, but fewer, system-wide rush events - a BBQ etc works very well, esp right at the beginning of a semester (esp fall).

As for stuff w/in your own house, that I don't have as much experience with - maybe KDDani et al can suggest some ways to get the chapter back on track.

I applaud you for caring enough to post here - good luck dude.

-RC