How NOT to have Greek unity?

KappaStargirl · #1 06-02-2002, 03:41 PM

At the college from which I graduated, there are only 3 sororities: Kappa, and two others I'll call ABC and XYZ. All are strong in different ways, and until now there didn't seem to be much more than the standard rivalry between groups. All the groups are unhoused and have a meeting room and storage closet in a wing of one of the residence halls. Not ideal, but at least fair.

The university owns several small houses on campus. They hold 9-13 people and you have to apply to live there. They are "theme" houses, given for example to the Outdoor Education Club, Downer Women's Council, Music Education majors, etc. Each group has to apply to the housing board to live there and promise to do community service in tune with the theme of the house. So far, so good. The system has worked ok...until now.

The ABC's applied for a small house and got one. They also cleared it with their HQ that they don't have to follow standard ABC house rules: They can have alcohol and men in the house (in more than just the common areas), they don't have to have a house mother, etc. My guess is that they applied not as ABC's but as an advocate for their philanthropy, and since they're not attaching their name to the house they don't have to follow their HQ's rules. I THINK that's the case, don't quote me on it. In any event, every resident of that house is an ABC. Kappa and XYZ do not have any living arrangement like this. ABC does not care how this might affect the other two groups going through Rush, again I'm guessing that they're making the argument that they're not technically attaching their name to the house, so it shouldn't matter.

Rush is deferred until January, plenty of time for freshmen to see that one group has a house and two don't. My feeling is they're just asking for Rush infractions, because the minute a freshman sets foot in that house it then becomes dirty Rush, even if there's no alcohol involved.

So my questions for you:

Do you think this is really a terrible example of Greek unity?

Does ABC have a right to do as it pleases if it's name isn't attached to the house on paper?

Do you think it will affect numbers for ABC as opposed to the other two groups?

If you were a Kappa or an XYZ, what would you do? The chapter's looking for advice.

If I have more questions I will post later.

vukkg · #2 06-02-2002, 04:20 PM

Hmmm...alls fair in love and war, but this is neither. Sounds totally unfair. My school's sorority housing is the same way. The guys all have houses, but the 7 sororities all live in one dorm. It actually works out great for us simply because it puts everyone on equal ground, corridor wise at least. My school will not allow us move out of our dorm until senior year, at which point seniors usually either a) get a monopoly on an apt complex and pass on the lease b) live in a house that is also handed down to seniors c) continue to live on the corridor or d) live in Apts with other greeks or independents ( this is what I plan to do ....me, another kappa and 2 chi o's). I think this system promotes the unity on our campus very well. I would check with your Greek Affairs Advisor and see what their take on it is. And as bad as this may sound, watch as the rush infractions roll in in the spring...it is inevitable when everyone is not on fair ground. Good luck!

carnation · #3 06-02-2002, 05:27 PM

Oh lordy. This can cause groups to leave campus. At Mississippi State, one group got tired of dorm life and the sororities on either side of their chapter room listening in on their ceremonies and announced to heck with the university's policy on no sorority houses, they were building one. Immediately, everyone else had to decide to do it or die. Several groups dug deep in their pockets--it was the only way to compete because they knew this first group would build a lavish house. Three folded. They knew they were having a hard time and couldn't compete.

I never knew that a decision by one group could cause so much turmoil.

dzsaigirl · #4 06-02-2002, 05:31 PM

I don't know if it is fair or not. It seems like they took the initiative to get housing. Why don't the other two sororities try to get a house off campus? You could just rent a house, not everyone has to live there. My school is currently building greek row, so obviously we didn't have greek housing unless each group sought out their own house to rent near the school, but off campus. Some of us did it, some didn't. Having a house definitely helps during rush. I know that this is not what you want to hear, but, I think that if the bar is raised, you have to jump up to meet it...

I hope that everything works out though...I can't believe that group can have a pretend house and have alcohol though...their national and their advisor must be really laid back!

Kevin · #5 06-02-2002, 05:39 PM

Sounds like they pulled it off quite well, covered all the bases, etc. Is there no way that you and the other sororities on campus can not do the exact same thing? The school should not give them preferential treatment in the applications process.

As far as alcohol in their house... I'd imagine that their Risk Reduction policy probably addresses that issue. Your best bet is to sell what you've got to sell. They have a house... so what?

LHT
Kevin

sweetie adpi · #6 06-02-2002, 05:44 PM

hello! sorry this is so long... i just started typing and typing and typing....

our college has what sounds like the same application process for on campus housing as yours, and none of the sororities on campus have houses, we have suites. there's never been much of a problem (well that didn't get addressed and dealt with properly) between the sororities in regards to having unofficial houses because freshman and transfer women are not allowed in these houses (or apartments) where over 1/2 of the people living there are in a sorority at any time when there is a party, sorority event of any kind or alcohol being consumed for the entire first semester (we have deferred rush). these houses are labled as "pink" houses and have a sign that states as much that has to be posted in the window during parties (which does kinda suck cause it draws more attention to the house).

we also have a (i forget the name or exact proportion) proportional rule, that says that freshman women pretty much can't be involved in any activities where they are outnumbered by sorority women because that can be construed as a "dirty rush" event or a sorority event (such as one that these women you mention in your post might host for their philanthropy, for freshman to participate it would probably have to a) be held at a different location, and/or b)have either a majority of non-greek participants and different greeks and not break the proportion rule). therefore, this on campus house would be subject to these propotion rule restrictions, despite the fact that it is not actually a 'sorority house', and would therefore have limited interactions with freshmen women before recruitment. also, the sorority shouldn't be able to be mentioned during an event the house holds in the name of it's cause/program/etc., because after all it isn't a sorority house but a whatever the cause/program/etc. is house. but then this should be addressed as well by the school or residence life, b/c they wouldn't be allowed to host such events as anything other than the group that applied for the housing, does that make sense? (this is just how our school works, you may want to check about res. life's rules about advertising who/what is sponsoring such events in the name of that house)

however, i can understand that if one sorority has, say, many off campus houses, while the others do not, how it can be to your disadvantage. (while we have 2 adpi and a couple panhel houses, some have at least twice as many)
pnms who are very socially conscious will probably notice upperclassmen throwing around house names and associated sororities names while they are at it. ...on our campus we have some interesting house names that easily raise curiosity ... i'll be living at the castle, and then there's the barn, the ho-tel, the bakery, the chapel, the g-spot, the blueberry, i could go on....

i would suggest having your panhellenic delegate bring up this issue right off the bat when you start back. your greek advisor, vp recruitment administration and vp recruitment programming should be aware of your concerns and willing to address and resolve them. that is, after all, their job! good luck!

KappaStargirl · #7 06-02-2002, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dzsaigirl
I don't know if it is fair or not. It seems like they took the initiative to get housing. Why don't the other two sororities try to get a house off campus? You could just rent a house, not everyone has to live there. Some of us did it, some didn't. Having a house definitely helps during rush. I know that this is not what you want to hear, but, I think that if the bar is raised, you have to jump up to meet it...

I hope that everything works out though...I can't believe that group can have a pretend house and have alcohol though...their national and their advisor must be really laid back!

I'm glad you brought this up, I had forgotten to clarify a few things

1) This is a 4-year residential college. You are not allowed to live off campus unless you are married, student teaching, or a fifth-year senior.

2) This is a very small school. At 1100 students they have huge housing problems, some people have to change dorms every term. Chapter total is 59. The ABC's I'm guessing have 35-40 members, so do the XYZ's. Kappa has 14 (chapter almost shut down last year but made a great comeback). With chapters being that size, and student costs being what they are (private school, tuition is about 24000 a year), it's unlikely they'd be able to afford to rent a house or buy one. There's also the disadvantages of the age of the chapters: ABC and XYZ have both been around since 1915, Kappa's chapter was established in 1981. While the other two groups have prominent alums, Kappa doesn't, and therefore has fewer resources for money. Alum giving is HUGE at this school, 85 percent of the students are on financial aid.

3) The school also has the proportional rule. That said, any time a freshman set foot in that house alone or with a group of other freshman women during the first semester, it would be considered dirty rushing. Even if it's just a study session, it's still considered a Rush infraction unless there are other upperclassmen present, GLO-affiliated or not.

4) There is no way the other groups can get a house for the next year, as housing decisions have already been made. The other groups would have to wait until the 2003-2004 school year to apply.

5) As far as alcohol goes, I have no idea how they were able to bypass the rule. It IS considered a sorority house by University standards, but I think they think that's secondary to the theme of the house.

6) Another factor I forgot to mention is the housing lottery. Everyone gets a number based on class standing. After your theme house is approved, you get your pick at houses based on your lottery numbers. If there are 5 approved groups and only 4 houses, the one with the lowest overall housing lottery number average loses out. A group that applies with all seniors is going to get a house, chapters with larger classes of sophomores and juniors wouldn't get a chance, couldn't even argue in the name of equality.

I don't know if they'd be allowed to build an ABC-specific house or not. This a campus that is VERY short on space and it regulates buildings pretty tightly. And everything else

Yikes, that's a lot of typing. Hope I cleared some things up!

My other thought is that it isn't even in ABC's best interest to have a house: If other chapters go under, they have to leave. If I remember correctly they must be on campus with at least two other national groups.

LeslieAGD · #8 06-02-2002, 09:36 PM

As Dzsaigirl siad, there is nothing stopping Kappa and the other sorority from applying for the other houses.

Perhaps I am mistaken, but from the way it was explained, it seems as though this is like a yearly lease. Just because ABC has the house this year, does not mean it will keep it next year...please correct me if this is wrong. If this is correct, perhaps you can work something out with the university so that every year a different sorority can have the house...ABC this year, XYZ next year, then Kappa, and begin again.

KappaStargirl · #9 06-02-2002, 11:34 PM

Yes, Leslie, you're absolutely right. It is only a yearly lease. It's possible that next year they'll have a house if they have high lottery numbers, or they might not and XYZ and Kappa could get a house. Or all three. Or none. It depends on how their numbers are compared to everyone else's who applies.

However, the university does not see it as a sorority house that should be rotated for fairness. They see it as a group of girls living in a small or "theme" house all working for the same philanthropy. Sorority affiliation does not show up on the application for the house. The way the university would see it, rotating the house between the sororities would unfairly take away from other groups that wanted to have a theme house, they'd be down to 3 open theme houses instead of 4.

The university is also tearing down the fraternity houses next year. One of the reasons they gave was that it was an unfair housing situation for men... I know I have the paper around here somewhere explaining it, but I can't find it. In any event, the university is doing away with Greek housing. The last thing I think they would do is instate a sorority house the same year they're taking housing away from the fraternities.

lifesaver · #10 06-03-2002, 03:14 AM

guys are going to see the issue extreemly differently form the ladies, remember we view greek life differently. As has been tossed around here before, women see greek life (interactions, recruitment) as being very egalitarian (sp), dependent on cooperation, and men see it as a compitition, survival of the fittest.

Male Perspective:
As a guy I say pox on you for not knowing about this before it happened(you need to get your spies out there), then standing around after bitching, acting like the victim of some crime. Figure out how to beat them at their own game.

Female Perspective:
As a sorority girl friend of mine reccomened(I placed a phone call...), see what you can do within the rules to call them on the carpet for this, and watch them like a hawk, you see one infraction, pounce. The girls in the theme house probably know you all will be watching, so they should be on their best behavior. maybe work with the other unhoused sorority to come up with a solution.

Another idea, see it as a good thing. It only servs to raise the awarness and visibility of greeks on campus, when people see more of a presence on campus, they think they have to be greek to be anything. its that way at SWT in San Marcos, Tx and I'd kill to have that critical mass reached on our campus.

Good luck tho. I can see how ya'll feel like ya got shafted.

33girl · #11 06-03-2002, 10:02 AM

1. I think it is BOGUS that they were able to get a house under the pretense of being "ABC Philanthropy Theme House." But then again, if that's the game the university is going to play they can also jolly well have a "XYZ Philanthropy Theme House" and a "Kappa Philanthropy Theme House."

2. I really, really doubt that ABC's nationals are letting them slide on the alcohol issue. Unless they are going to have an equal amount of non-ABC women who are also "philanthropy advocates" living there. HQ's don't care if you have letters on the house or if you pay the rent or if the school recognizes it...if Joe Blow walks by and calls it the ABC house, it is...with all the rules applying.

3. Kappa and XYZ need to pool the sisters with the highest lottery numbers and get houses next year.

4. If it does effect the other sororities negatively, and ABC run the possibility of getting their asses in an infraction sling, they will be out of there ASAP. If they are hamstrung by this "2 other national groups on campus" rule (and I must say, that's a brand new one on me), it is in their best interest to keep Kappa and XYZ around.

LeslieAGD · #12 06-03-2002, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 33girl
I really, really doubt that ABC's nationals are letting them slide on the alcohol issue. Unless they are going to have an equal amount of non-ABC women who are also "philanthropy advocates" living there. HQ's don't care if you have letters on the house or if you pay the rent or if the school recognizes it...if Joe Blow walks by and calls it the ABC house, it is...with all the rules applying.

I disagree with this simply because my chapter has an unofficial house and IHQ cannot and/or does not impose rules on the house.

KappaStarGirl, I can totally understand why you feel this is unfair, but in the grand scheme of things, I don't feel that ABC sorority did anything wrong. I can understand why the university will not allow you to rotate a house, but perhaps you can bring this up with your Panhel board and maybe make an agreement that if ABC has a house this year, they will not apply next year so another chapter can attempt to have the house. If this is not possible, I suggest Kappa (and XYZ) simply apply next year. If you feel that this might effect your recruitment/if PNMs say something about ABC having a house, just remind them that it is only a year long lease and you will be applying next year.

33girl · #13 06-03-2002, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by LeslieAGD

I disagree with this simply because my chapter has an unofficial house and IHQ cannot and/or does not impose rules on the house.

Then you are very, very lucky...in case anyone thought I agreed with that line of reasoning in my original post, I definitely don't...but I'm not gonna go there.

AOX81 · #14 06-03-2002, 11:32 AM

At the university that I went to we were the only sorority to have a house (we have been leasing ours for years). We didn't get more girls because of a house...we got more girls because we made more of an effort than the other sororities. During formal rush we do not use our house, we hold all of our events up at school with the other sororites so most of the potential new member don't even know we have a house unless they ask. As for rush infractions, we have NEVER gotten an infraction because of a PNM coming to our house during formal rush.

From what I was told, which could be wrong, if your national does not own your house and you are "renting/leasing" from someone else you can pretty much do whatever you want alcohol and men wise. If it is such a big deal to have a house why don't you look for an off-campus house. My school had no dorms or any kind of housing so everyone lived off-campus.

To Answer Your Questions:
Do you think this is really a terrible example of Greek unity?
No, at the school I went to we had 3 sororities and 2 fraternities...only one of each has a house and we all get along fine.

Does ABC have a right to do as it pleases if it's name isn't attached to the house on paper?
Pretty much, but they do have to follow guidelines when it comes to Formal Recruitment.

Do you think it will affect numbers for ABC as opposed to the other two groups?
Not really, the other groups might have to promote themselves more. I'm sorry but you don't join a sorority based on a house...you join because you fit in with the sisters.

If you were a Kappa or an XYZ, what would you do? The chapter's looking for advice.
If a house is that important look into off-campus housing.

shadokat · #15 06-03-2002, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KappaStargirl

So my questions for you:

Do you think this is really a terrible example of Greek unity?

Does ABC have a right to do as it pleases if it's name isn't attached to the house on paper?

Do you think it will affect numbers for ABC as opposed to the other two groups?

If you were a Kappa or an XYZ, what would you do? The chapter's looking for advice.

If I have more questions I will post later.

To answer your questions:

1. I don't think it's a terrible example of Greek Unity. I think that they realized that they could get a house just like any other "theme" oriented group, and they went out and did it. Kappa and XYZ can do the same.

2. If the house is not an official house of the sorority, the rules don't really apply. We rented a house in our town that our HQs did not recognize as an official house, and we had alcohol there and boys!

3. With ABC only having a yearly lease, it would be difficult for them to preach the continuity of having this house if they aren't guaranteed it in the future. At one school I advise, our chapter is the only unhoused chapter, and that's simply because they are newer and there isn't any open space in the Greek Housing for them yet. They do just as well as the other sororities. It would depend on the women you're recruiting.

4. If I was a Kappa or XYZ, I'd get my ass in gear and fill out paperwork to get my group a house. I'd make sure that during recruitment planning, the ABC chapter realizes that they may not hold any recruitment events at their house during formal recruitment. At informal, it's a free for all basically, so you can't stop them from holding an event there.