Can you haze a brother/sister?

catlady · #1 04-14-2002, 01:13 PM

If someone does something to a brother/sister that if done to a pledge would be considered hazing, would it be hazing even though it is done to a person who is not a pledge?

I recently heard a story where a chapter said no in their trial proceedings even though the person hazed ended up with severe depression as a result.

What are your thoughts and feelings? Or have you ever heard of anything similar happening before?

Dionysus · #2 04-14-2002, 02:08 PM

I guess it would be considered as hazing. But, what bonehead would subject to hazing by their "equals"?

catlady · #3 04-14-2002, 02:15 PM

Dionysus -

That is so true, however, in this case it was done through two anonymous emails until the brother in question was able to gather enough evidence against the three brothers harassing her (it was a co-ed frat)

There was only one confrontation in person (which ironically happened during a meeting apparently)

I just find this strange because if this had been done to a pledge, it would have been considered hazing, not just harassment.

graham852 · #4 04-14-2002, 07:19 PM

I don't think it is called hazing if you mistreat a real brother/sister, but it can only be punished by parents unless severe violence happens.

Dionysus · #5 04-14-2002, 08:00 PM

I changed my mind. That was harassment, not hazing.

Betarulz! · #6 04-14-2002, 09:17 PM

The joke in my pledge class during pledgeship was that we could "haze" each other but the actives couldn't haze us. It was an onrunning joke throughout the semester if someone did something stupid, or even something really good...some one would usually yell "oop...haze him!"

However in the real world, I don't think that one individual could do the hazing to an initiated member...stuff like forcing them to drink or whatever. Further why would the member follow along? They aren't trying to prove they deserve to belong or anythign.

I suppose it could be possible, but the circumstances would have to be extreme, and sort of a whole house vs the individual type of thing.

hoosier · #7 04-14-2002, 10:59 PM

In the DU-Nebraska paddling picture circulated a few weeks ago, i apparently was a new initiate (a member) swapping wood with his big brother (a member).

Even so, the Univ. and the national called this hazing (or maybe stupidity) and shut them down.

catlady · #8 04-15-2002, 12:03 AM

Originally posted by Betarulz!

"However in the real world, I don't think that one individual could do the hazing to an initiated member...stuff like forcing them to drink or whatever. Further why would the member follow along? They aren't trying to prove they deserve to belong or anythign.

I suppose it could be possible, but the circumstances would have to be extreme, and sort of a whole house vs the individual type of thing. "

Catlady says:
I think people are used to thinking of hazing onlyas forcing someone to do something like drinking. How can you make someone stop something if you don't know who is doing it?

Some people think that anything that is considered harassment is considered hazing and for others, there is a difference between the two.

A definition of hazing that I found from www.stophazing.org is: "Any action taken or situation created, intentionally, whether on or off fraternity premises, to produce mental or physical discomfort, embarrassment, harassment, or ridicule."

Now when looking at this definition, without any examples of hazing, then any type of harassing activity is considered hazing. I don't think that people are used to thinking about it like that. But when looking at quite a few of the websites of other fraternities and sororities, I'm finding that many have the same definition as the one above.

While it may not be something we are used to thinking of, I mean who would haze their own frat brother or sorority sister, it should be something we start to consider, especialy since people are more aware of their legal rights.

There's also the fact that it is better to be prepared than unprepared as was the chapter in my friend's case. That chapter will probably end up under investigation by the national office for hazing, even if it was a brother and not a pledge.

Kevin · #9 04-15-2002, 12:05 AM

Our hazing policy specifically states that hazing applies accross the board. If the situation came up you could convict a pledge for hazing an active... (although that would be some strange stuff...)

Tom Earp · #10 04-15-2002, 10:22 PM

While we call it hazing in Greek Orgs. It is called Terroristic threats in the real world! Da, it is a Felony, which if proven is time in Prison!

Tell me more about how it is right or wrong now?

Kapsig1 · #11 04-16-2002, 04:44 PM

Kappa Sigma does not differentiate between hazing of initiates and pledges.

The statute in Texas actually delineates that it doesn't mattter if they are full members or not.

IMHO, the question should be - why would I want to treat anyone like that?

Brad

TriSigmaTX · #12 04-16-2002, 06:26 PM

Asolutely Brad!
Hazing is hazing, doesn't matter if it's between a new member and initiated member or whoever. Hazing is hazing!

We should always be evaluating our actions...

Glitter650 · #13 04-23-2002, 08:58 PM

Well I guess this kinda applies. I know in my chapter there used to be this thing called scrolling... where if there two initiated sisters... the one who was initiated first.. (IE older pledge class) they could say scroll.. and the other sister would have to do what they said. (I think it's like scroll back to the time when you were a pledge ?? not sure where the term came from.. but) Even though I'm pretty sure it was used only for silly stuff.. like say who rides shotgun like if the newer sister called it the older sister could say scroll and take take front seat anyway. We, obsiously can't do that anymore..but I guess that's a form of hazing girls who are already members.. even though it's still based on who was initiated before you, both girls are now members...

LeslieAGD · #14 04-23-2002, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Glitter650
Well I guess this kinda applies. I know in my chapter there used to be this thing called scrolling... where if there two initiated sisters... the one who was initiated first.. (IE older pledge class) they could say scroll.. and the other sister would have to do what they said. (I think it's like scroll back to the time when you were a pledge ?? not sure where the term came from.. but) Even though I'm pretty sure it was used only for silly stuff.. like say who rides shotgun like if the newer sister called it the older sister could say scroll and take take front seat anyway. We, obsiously can't do that anymore..but I guess that's a form of hazing girls who are already members.. even though it's still based on who was initiated before you, both girls are now members...

is this basically like "pulling rank"?

WingNut · #15 04-24-2002, 01:39 AM

Why spend all the time during the pledging period building trust with the older brothers and pledge brothers just to ruin it all by hazing when you reach brotherhood. It's just not worth it at any stage of being a member. There is no difference between hazing a pledge and hazing a brother in my mind.