U.S. Breaks International Law By Executing Mexican National

[PiKA2001]

Did anyone else read or hear about this? What do you think?

http://m.cnn.com/primary/_NbLYlh-idKHx2lIva#page2

[alphatausc]

Rape and murder of an underage American girl? I say cut his head off with an blunt axe.

[DrPhil]

If the U.S. violated international law, this needs to be addressed.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

If the U.S. violated international law, this needs to be addressed.

It's not that cut and dry though. The article glosses over the fact that Leal came to the U.S. when he was 1 1/2 years old. He also lied to police at the time about his citizenship. He claimed he was an American during the entire legal process. It was 2 to 3 years after his conviction when he came forward and admitted to being a MX National ONLY after hearing from another inmate that the MX consulate had helped defend him in his case.

[DrPhil]

That's why I said "if." I am not going to think too much about this issue but I'm sure someone is working on the investigation and so forth. The U.S. is the U.S. so they will probably find that the U.S. didn't violate international law. However, if they find the U.S. did violate international law, it should somehow be addressed.

[excelblue]

What international law?

There's no international army last I checked.

[starang21]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

It's not that cut and dry though. The article glosses over the fact that Leal came to the U.S. when he was 1 1/2 years old. He also lied to police at the time about his citizenship. He claimed he was an American during the entire legal process. It was 2 to 3 years after his conviction when he came forward and admitted to being a MX National ONLY after hearing from another inmate that the MX consulate had helped defend him in his case.

hence i feel no pity.

[Tulip86]

What I don't get is why they never found out he was actually Mexican before he was executed. I know he lied, but aren't all those "facts" checked ohne ende before executing someone?

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Had he identified as a Mexican national upon his arrest, chances are he WOULD have been advised he could contact his consul.

I agree. Hell, I'm assuming his own defense attorney(s) didn't even know about his citizenship (BC they probably would have made contact with the consulate themselves).

Originally Posted by Tulip86

What I don't get is why they never found out he was actually Mexican before he was executed. I know he lied, but aren't all those "facts" checked ohne ende before executing someone?

They did find out he was Mexican but he was already tried, convicted, and sitting on death row at that time. One would think they would have found out about this guys nationality but given the fact that we have sanctuary cities where no one asks and a Justice Dept that sues states that require officers to check into the nationalities of the people they arrest can you really be surprised that something like this would happen?

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,2041...136236,00.html

"Texas is not bound by a foreign court's ruling," Cesinger said. "The U.S. Supreme Court ruled in 2008 that the treaty was not binding on the states and that the president does not have the authority to order states to review cases of the then 51 foreign nationals on death row in the U.S."
In its ruling Thursday about an hour before Leal's execution, the Supreme Court's majority opinion pointed to the IJC decision, saying it's been seven years since then and three years since the previous Texas death penalty case that raised similar consular legal access issues.
If a statute implementing the provisions of the international court ruling "had genuinely been a priority for the political branches, it would have been enacted by now," the majority ruling said.
Had the White House and dissenting justices been worried about "the grave international consequences that will follow from Leal's execution ... Congress evidently did not find these consequences sufficiently grave to prompt its enactment of implementing legislation, and we will follow the law as written by Congress," the ruling continued.
Leal's appeals lawyers had pinned their hopes on legislation introduced in the Senate last month that applied to the Vienna Convention provisions and said Leal should have a reprieve so the measure could make its way through the legislative process.
Similar bills have failed twice in recent congressional sessions.
"Our task is to rule on what the law is, not what it might eventually be," the court said.

[BluPhire]

Didn't help Amanda Knox.

And being on good terms with Mexico hasn't helped Americans caught in the wrong parts of Mexico before.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by BluPhire

Didn't help Amanda Knox.

And being on good terms with Mexico hasn't helped Americans caught in the wrong parts of Mexico before.

I don't believe she's being executed.

And you know better. Why do you troll?

[BluPhire]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I don't believe she's being executed.

And you know better. Why do you troll?

No she isn't. I'm not trolling this one. I don't believe Italy has the death penalty so I could be wrong in bringing her up. I was thinking though more so in respect of our laws and other countries' laws. Just because we have the death penalty and other countries don't, does that mean we flex our muscles less in respect to American citizens because we know they at least won't get death?

I believe other countries have to recognize that death is an option and though they can advocate for lighter sentences, if it does not occur you shouldn't take your toys and go home.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by BluPhire

No she isn't. I'm not trolling this one. I don't believe Italy has the death penalty so I could be wrong in bringing her up. I was thinking though more so in respect of our laws and other countries' laws. Just because we have the death penalty and other countries don't, does that mean we flex our muscles less in respect to American citizens because we know they at least won't get death?

I believe other countries have to recognize that death is an option and though they can advocate for lighter sentences, if it does not occur you shouldn't take your toys and go home.

Italy does not have the death penalty

I agree that we shouldn't change our rulings just to make another country happier with the verdict. Mexico is even trickier because so many of her citizens come here not to visit but by migration. The man executed wasn't here on a trip, or just here to go to school, he was here to live permanently as a citizen. Therefore, if he wants to live here as a citizen, he should be subject to all laws and the consequences of breaking those laws as any citizen is, regardless of where he was born. Why should he get any preferential treatment? Just my honest opinion.

[moe.ron]

Originally Posted by BluPhire

Didn't help Amanda Knox.

And being on good terms with Mexico hasn't helped Americans caught in the wrong parts of Mexico before.

What matters is that Texas didn't give the Mexican access to consular service from his Consulate. Amanda Knox received it, even the hikers in Iran received consular service. If an American was arrested in Mexico, he would received Consular service. The outcome of the trial is not in question, but access to consular service is.

They could've just give the dude access, somebody from the consulate said hello and we can't help. Then off with his head, no harm done.

[SWTXBelle]

Amanda Knox identified herself as an American. Hence she was offered consular access.

Garcia did NOT identify as a Mexican citizen, and we all know that it would be horribly racist to assume he was Mexican because of the way he looked. Laws which would require police to confirm citizenship are regularly denounced as racist, so there you go. Since he identified himself as an American citizen, he was not offered consular access.