Nice guys finish last....

[lifesaver]

I know this topic has been BRIEFLY touched on in the past, but I wanna discuss it further;

Why is it women say they want a "nice guy" but only respect the guys that treat them like $hit? (dont play dumb, we've all seen it and it seems to work - cause they get interested and stick around)

Seriously, all the ladies I know whine about wanting a "nice guy" but only fall for the jerks and a$$ holes. Those guys will treat them like crap and they stick around for it. Makes me believe that if I wanna snag this filly I have my eye on I gotta act un-interested, be distant, hook up and leave, not call her when I say I will, ditch her to hang out with my brothers, tell her shes unactractive and generally act like a schmo.

The problem is thats not me. Just not how I am built. But if thats what I have to do.... Seems to work for a lot of guys I know. I dunno.....

[alphachiohmy]

I am not trying to say that girls don't go for a$sholes -- but all of my close friends who are in long term relationships are with "nice guys," not schmos. And when my friends started dating thier sig others - those guys were at first "nice guys" and not schmos.

I haven't seen a a$$hole-guy-and-girl relationship work out much more than a one-night or one-week fling. I have been guilty, while not thinking anything will amount to a relationship, of the above and then whining about it. Who hasn't?

Often times those guys are very attractive, but little else. And I admit attraction is vital for me in a relationship, often times when attraction is coupled with cockiness or a$$holeness I don't forsee a relationship with that type of guy. On the same token, I have dated "nice guys," who are only that nice - without a personality and opinions. Its also hard to find a guy like that, but with who you have no attraction with. I have been in that boat too.

My advice is if your interested in someone, be yourself. Be who you are if you want a relationship with this person. Don't try to be something your not, whether it be an a$$hole or overly nice.

[DGPhoney]

lifesaver, never change. I don't buy that whole "Nice Guys Finish Last " theory at all. If a guy is nice he finishes first in my book. I mean true some girls are just drawn to those guys who treat them like crap and they never learn or they learn to late,but not every female is like that.
Alot of times, guys start out being nice and then they turn into total jerks, so either we didn't get to see their "true" sides in the beginning or we were blinded by umm "love". ( This isn't just guys, us girls are like this too)
I think the whole being upfront, honest, sincere and forgetting all the games and nonsense "snags the filly", because A. She knows your there, B. She knows your thoughts on the situation C. It's more comfortable to get involed with someone who can be expressive and upfront in the beginnig, then playing the guessing game and trying to figure out whether they will be cool or turn into a jerk later on.
Be yourself, don't change your ways to suit the stereotype, be the suave nice guy we all know here on GC and I am sure things will work out .
Good Luck " Snagging the Filly"
(sorry had to borrow your phrase, it is funny )

DGPhoney~

[G8Ralphaxi]

Please please please stay nice! The world has enough a**holes, trust me!

I will admit that there are girls that love the "challenge" of a jerk, or maybe think that they can "help" him somehow - they will be the ONE who can truly see in his heart and help him be the wonderful sweetie she just knows that he really wants to be. WHATEVER!

Most girls get smart and tire of the jerks. You just have to catch one at that point. It's tricky, because usually what happens is this...

1. Girl dates Jerk
2. Girl breaks up with Jerk
3. Girl dates Jerk #2
4. Girl breaks up with Jerk #2
5. Etc. etc. etc. for awhile
6. Girl realizes Jerks are no fun
7. Girl starts looking for Nice Guy
8. Girl meets Nice Guy (or, more commonly, starts dating Nice Guy that was there all along)
9. Girl ends up in Long Term Relationship with Nice Guy
10. Usually, Girl marries Nice Guy

You know it's true - how often have you seen people you know never really seem to find someone that suits them, then all of a sudden they meet someone new and BANG! they get married.

You gotta catch them at Step #7! That's your window of opportunity. Have faith, my friend, you can do it!

One final warning though...
The main reason that nice guys get a bad rap is that many of them are WIMPS. It gets really annoying if a guy is like, "whatever you want to do is great with me sweetie" all the freakin' time. Especially when you know that it's not fine with him - he's just saying so because he's so desperate to keep you happy.

So be nice, be sweet, give sincere compliments, heck, buy flowers. Just make sure that you always keep your own personality and opinions. If you try to lose your personality to keep her, you'll lose yourself in the process, and eventually you'll lose her too. The magic of a relationship is getting to know the inner essence of another person and if they just agree with you all the time, then you never get to know them.

Good luck!

[ZTAngel]

Caution, this is post is brutally honest:

Just like guys, girls LOVE a challenge. I don't have enough fingers and toes to count how many jerks I have dated. The guy who called me everyday, right on time....got kinda sick of him. Now, the guy, who didn't call me for a week straight, I was head over heels for (until I caught him making out with my 'best friend' but that's a whole other story.........). I'm not at all saying for you to pretend like you like a girl to get her into bed just so that you can get your sausage wet (sorry, had to go there ) or to be outright mean to every girl you date or cheat on your girlfriend with her best friend (grrrrrrrrrrrr) but create a little challenge. The guy I'm with now is a "nice guy". He opens my car door for me (I had NEVER had a guy who had done that for me), won't let me pay when we go out for dinner unless I throw a fit about it (I feel bad when he won't let me pay...I'm too nice), and who opens doors for me. Although he was a "nice guy", he did present a challenge. He'd tell me that he'd call at 7pm. I'd get a call at 9pm. He didn't let me know whether or not he was dating anyone else (he wasn't but he kept that a secret....for the challenge effect ). And, on one of our first dates, while we were at the movies, he ran into this girl that he was friends with and gave her this HUGE hug. I cringed. But, it made me want him more. Although he was so sweet to me, he created this whole mystery about him. And I loved it. Almost a year later, we are still together!

[alphachiohmy]

Not too make anyone mad or anything, I dont agree with a guy going out of his way to be nice or creating a challenge for mystery if thats not who you are as a person.

In a relationship, whether its a friend or a guy your dating, being truthful and honesty is key, in my opinion. If a guy likes to buy flowers for girls he dates by all means he should - but it shouldn't be done if that is not who that person is. On the same token, if a guy puts up a facade that he is a challenge but that is not who he really is, a relationship will be flimsy.

I guess I am just an advocate for being yourself in a relationship and being honest and level with who you are dating. I understand that its harder in reality than it sounds on paper(or a computer screen).

If you try to be something you are not , that appearence won't hold up for long. And then where will you be left?

[AOIIAngel]

Personally, I prefer a guy who is HONEST. And I do actually like nice guys-one who will call me just to say hi-That one thing means the most to me, because I can never find a guy who does that. Lifesaver!! You need to get to Ft Worth!!LOL

But really-I don't go for the whole macho jerk thing. I have before, but believe me, it doesnt last long(mostly because they weren't like that at first) But please, just be a nice guy-eventually you will find a lady who likes you for the nice guy you are. And if you don't-its her loss sweetie!

[Miami1839]

I'm at a loss really what to think. I hear women prefer nice guys all the time but I only see quite the opposite. Its either that or theres just something that you cant live up to no matter what. It might sound pessimistic but thats what I've found. I've often thought sometimes some people just get sick of getting burned and then when they see someone that is nice and has it together they come around. I was never the player type unlike a lot of my brothers were when I was an active. I always have just been myself. What you see is what you get. I give up. LOL I'll probably always be stuck on step 1.

Kevin

[ErikaXO]

Ok, can I just tell you that G8 told the story of my life? I was always attracted to the pretty-boy player types and it always ended up bad. In my case, it boiled down to two things.....looks and ego. I had a very narrow view of what was attractive, and unfortunately the guys I was attracted to tended to think they were even more attractive than I did!!!! Plus, it was an ego thing for me to try and nail the players. In fact, I had a nickname for a while...."Buffy the Player Slayer...." I had a game going where I would play the players, ie get them to pursue me and go out with me, and I knew how to play their game to keep them interested, and then just as they started thinking that they had me and I was going to fall under their spell, I'd dump them. Naturally I won some and I lost some....I was in the process of trying to burn the worst one of all at the same time that he had made it his mission in life to burn me when a very nice, sweet guy I was acquainted with asked me out. He had tried to pick up on me before but at the time I was like "yeah whatEVER!!" and pretty much blew him off. We did become friends after that but I never really thought of him as dating material for me. I did notice that he seemed to be in pretty hot demand, but it never got to me. But when he asked me out, I was so sick of the games and he seemed so sweet that I said to myself "what the heck, it will be nice to have a guy really work at it!" and I said yes. We had the BEST time. I wasn't nervous or trying to impress him, and although he was pretty nervous at first and trying VERY hard he could tell that he was winning major brownie points with me. He relaxed and the convo flowed all night, and all of a sudden I was like "why did I never notice how great-looking he is??" To make a long story short, after that night (Halloween 1992) we never looked back. We celebrated our seventh wedding anniversary in September and have two beautiful children.

The "players?" Well, the two worst ones I ever encountered are now 34 and 31 years old, still single, and total LOSERS....(in fact I saw the one recently and he has gained a ton of weight and looks like crap.)

Nice guys may have to work at it for awhile, but they usually win when it counts....I came to find out that my husband had a major crush on me (almost psycho-like) for two years before he asked me out....and I know for a fact one of his closest fraternity brothers (another nice guy) married his dream girl too, a girl he thought was totally out of his league.

[SigmaChiCard]

girls always want the nice guys in the end, which is causes them to be waiting around, missing on having women thru all of the fun parts of life so that they can date assholes then come back bitching, this wears on the nice guys like blakes clod of clay, so in the end, when women are like, okay, i guess i can deal with the nice guys now that I've had MY fun, then the nice guys are starting to turn assholish.

[justamom]

You've been given great advice. Though some of it SEEMS to conflict, it really doesn't. So many things in life can be compared to "foreplay". Rushing ANYTHING diminishes the end result. That's why ZTAngel's post is so accurate-keep a little mystery in the relationship. G8Ralphaxi made another excellent point-You have to "catch" them at the right time. Don't forget that women are seeing a smorgasbord just like the guys are. They also see all the PNR (Potential New Relationships HA!) college and graduate life has to offer. Don't change your life at the start of any new relationship. Let her be as eager to see you as you are to see her. Allow her to make some of those first moves as well. Most of all-Be confident. If YOU don't think a lot of yourself, why should anyone else?(MY Mom's advice) Lifesaver-NEVER settle you are WAY too wonderful for that!

Here's a little exercise to try. You see her, flash a charming smile but don't hold it too long. TURN AWAY FIRST and go talk warmly to a girl friend. Repeat this after a LONG wait-NO OVERKILL-and see if "the look" holds longer each time. Let her know you SEE her, but make sure she really SEES you. You may be surprised at the results. This barometer ALWAYS worked for me and let me know what level of interest existed.

[ErikaXO]

Yeah, SigmaChiCard, you are right that some nice guys do get sick of it and turn jerk.....and then they end up flying through a number of meaningless flings, often getting fried themselves....(any "PLAYA" who tries to claim he never gets dicked around or dumped and he does all the dicking around and dumping is a total liar!!!!) and eventually go back to their nice guy ways when they find the right girl.

Something else to think about.....guys have the mistaken notion that all girls, especially college-age girls, are looking for a relationship. Believe it or not an increasing number of young women are just out there trying to "get some" or just "have fun/hang out" for awhile without any strings attached. Long gone are the days of the majority of girls going to school to get their "M.R.S." Since they know that they are going to be heading out into the career arena after school and possibly moving somewhere else for the job market, they don't want to get tied down. There's no need. I know a lot of people still get married young, but it is now just as acceptable (and some would have you believe better) to wait until you are like 30 to even hook up, and don't worry about babies because women are having them into their 50s. Women don't NEED a husband anymore, and that has changed EVERYTHING. Guys are so used to being the ones on that side of the coin that they don't know how to handle it when a young lady acts that way. The irony is, a lot of these desirable young women have been conditioned by the "players" to act uninterested, uncommitted, and play games themselves just to keep them around. Players seem to the outsider like they want a submissive female who lets them do whatever they want and falls madly "in love"....but THAT'S when they get dumped. The girls who keep these guys coming back are the ones who know how to play the game themselves. But then, they start to feel like all guys are like that and then when they meet a nice guy, they keep playing the game and seem impossible to pin down. It's a vicious cycle.

Girls (and women) have gotten so sick of being saddled with the new definition of "psycho." It used to be that a psycho was someone, particularly an ex, who couldn't let go, who basically stalked you and did all sorts of crazy things to get you and keep you even when you don't want them. Now, by guys' definition, any girl who wants a relationship is a psycho. It makes it hard. Girls got so confused by the messages they were receiving from these dickhead types that they have altered their behavior and their attitudes, and now it is making life just that much harder to the nice, honest guys.

If you really want something to make you go try picking up a copy of Cosmo.....I can barely even stand to read it anymore. It would have you believe that all young women are these lioness predator-types who start bed-hopping at about 14 and keep it going (often with more than one guy at a time) until they are 35 or so. They are all ruthless killer career women who act like those broads on "Sex and the City".....sorry to use the old "broad" epithet, but it is the only term that seems to fit for me, I can't stand that show. They always throw in one article on "How to get him to commit" almost as a token, but the rest is all about sex sex sex sex. NOT exactly the unassuming, naive young gals trolling for a hubby that guys used to encounter.

[alphachiohmy]

Originally posted by lifesaver
Makes me believe that if I wanna snag this filly I have my eye on I gotta act un-interested, be distant, hook up and leave, not call her when I say I will, ditch her to hang out with my brothers, tell her shes unactractive and generally act like a schmo.

The problem is thats not me. Just not how I am built.

From another thread:
Last night I had a guest over. (Not ilovemyglo for those of you following along at home) So were messing around, I had rounded third base and was being waved in to home plate when I was asked, "Wanna try sex?"

<like ya needed to ask>

But since my "guest" is a lowly freshman, and I am slightly *cough* older, I didnt wanna take advantage and hook up because this freshman (like all of them) is a bit self-concious and insecure. Also I could tell my guest wasnt really ready, but was trying to please me. So I said, "Why dont we wait a little longer till you know me better and feel a little more relaxed with the situation. Would that be OK?" My guest said "sure," and seemed a bit releaved. So we moved on to other tasks, and crash out. This morning, when my guest was headded home I suddenly realized what the hell I had done and the only thing that came to mind is the sound/music they play after you over bid or loose on the "Price is Right." Alls I could say was, "Damn" as Bob Barker motioned me off the playah stage and said his token, "Bye Bye now. We'll have the showcase showdown coming up, right after these messages."

I was trying to score points and be a gentleman instead of just getting my sausage wet.

I am just curious as to if your "guest" is the "filly" you are trying to nab? Do you still talk to your guest? Is she friends with the filly?

[SSS1365]

The guy I'm with is a nice guy. He does a lot for me, has never cheated on me, has always been honest with me, and we've been together for 1 year and almost 9 months. And that's on top of the fact that we currently live 3 hours apart.

Here's the catch. He doesn't back down from arguments just because he doesn't want to upset me. He sticks to his opinions. He calls me, but not too often. My most recent ex irritated me because he was TOO nice. He called me every day, and let me walk all over him in our disagreements. Bottom line in my experience is that most of us DO want nice guys... but you need to know where to draw the line. And don't get too serious too fast. We can get scared off by this just as easily as guys do!

Trust me, there IS hope for nice guys!

[BrownEyedGirl]

I think my perspective is a little bit different than most of my friends because, unlike most girls, I may have been *attracted* to the mysterious, player guys, but have never dated one. That could be, however, because I've been with one of the "nice guys" for almost four years now, basically all of my 'dating' life. The truth of the matter is that, if a girl is honest, she will admit that she likes a little challenge and a little mystery, but more than that she likes to be appreciated, wanted, and respected. I'd take a nice guy who opens my car door, calls me when he says he will and appreciates me for who I am over anyone else in the world, I'll tell you that much!

It causes a few problems when I try to give advice to my girlfriends though; they haven't outgrown that "bad guy" attraction thing and I just don't know how many more nights I can console them after a player has broken their hearts...sometimes it's easier to give advice then take it, but I really wish they'd take mine.

So here it is, for all the freshmen girls (and anyone else who needs to hear it) out there: The bad boy may be fun for a month, maybe even two, but getting seriously attached to anyone but a good guy at heart is trouble!!