The city of Seattle does not use salt on the snowy/icy roads!!!

[AKA_Monet]

The city of Seattle does not use salt on the snowy/icy roads!!!

In the Pacific Northwest, we are having one of the worst runs of snow and ice in 50 years. It has never been like this and many of our Decembers' have been rainy or green.

But this year, we have gotten back to back snowstorms. Traffic is ridiculous. People are stuck on side roads for ~2 hours. The freeways are okay, because the STATE of Washington can use salt on the freeways since they go into the mountains... But the city of Seattle is being anal about being green and chooses NOT to use salt on many of the streets. So people can get to their homes, they cannot get to work and they definitely cannot get to do Holiday shopping...

I can understand that being green is okay for an occasional snow that lasts 2 days. But for 2 weeks we have been wrapped under a blanket of snow and ice. NO salt usage? WTH!!!

Search on Google for the news about this!!!

I am really POed with these people--another reason I am really not liking this place!!!

[WCsweet<3]

Yeah, I'm in Portland, so I know the feeling.
I don't know anything about salting or not.

[KappaKittyCat]

I'd be okay with my city not using as much salt this winter if they'd actually PLOW.

ETA: The problem with where I live is that often right after it snows the temperature drops significantly, so low that salt isn't useful. And since they don't plow until a day or two after the snow, the snow's all packed down and slick as all hell.

As long as they keep using salt with ice storms, I'm okay.

[AGDee]

They could use other things like sand too. That's what they use in the south. There's no excuse to not do "something" except that I heard they only have 27 snow plows.

As an aside, they are not salting as many roads or plowing as well as they used to in previous years here in metro Detroit either. It's a money thing, not a green thing though. Some roads just aren't getting done and those roads are getting scary dangerous to drive on.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by AGDee

They could use other things like sand too. That's what they use in the south. There's no excuse to not do "something" except that I heard they only have 27 snow plows.

Apparently in today's Seattle Times newspaper, they are saying that sand is worse than salt.

What happens with the sand is that it makes the road lumpy and uneven. Really messes up the suspension of some vehicles.

What's worse about Seattle is that we don't get weeks on end snow/ice like we've been getting. So the use of salt in this particular case outweighs the environmental risk that we are suffering right now. Most people have to work in these tough economic times and if the streets are poorly cleared, then what are we paying all these taxes for them to take care of us.

The other issue is our STATE DOT actually USES salt on the freeways. So, it is NOT a foreign concept in the State of Washington. It's just that these folks in Seattle, King County, Washington are beyond being anal retentive during this weather emergency and economic downturn...

You need to see some of the asinine comments by Seattle DOT... Too much redundancy for my tastes and the Governor ought to step in at this point and fix this issue since the Mayor is a lame duck. Seriously...

[VandalSquirrel]

So many people I know have had horrible experiences getting to the West side or down to Portland. I decided to just stay here and enjoy some solitude and peace and quiet, but I can't believe some of the stories people are telling me.

I have a Subaru and a snow shovel, and haven't had to put my cables on, but I think there is a serious lack of common sense on many people. Don't try to drive over a three or four foot high snow berm if you have a GEO METRO. I've gotten so much exercise from helping stupid people get their vehicles unstuck.

I made a list of vehicles that haven't moved in my neighborhood and turned it into the police today so they can get the vehicles moved or towed so the plows can get through. If a car is from Ada county (Boise) and hasn't moved since August, they've pretty much decided to leave it there.

[a.e.B.O.T.]

I am STUCK in Portland. I was visiting a friend last week, and was suppose to leave sunday. Well, my flight to Cincinnati was canceled, a long with a billion flights this last weekend. When could I be rescheduled for a seat? FRIDAY. So I am sitting here on waiting list after waiting list, hoping that maybe, at least once, that my number will be in the teens. THE KICKER: my friend's flight left monday for Paris. So, I am stuck in this town for christmas and I know anyone here. yay, me.

[Benzgirl]

One of the communities around here uses beet juice instead of straight brine.

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008...ice_beats.html

Road crews have spread tens of thousands of gallons of beet juice on Ohio roads this winter as a less corrosive way to keep ice and snow away. Results have been mostly positive so far.

Akron ordered 4,000 gallons of the juice, called Geomelt, last year and used all of it in the past month. The city anticipates ordering another 4,000 gallons soon.

"It's doing what the sales people said it would," Public Works Manager Paul Barnett said.


When combined with rock salt brine and calcium chloride, the juice blocks ice from forming on pavement even at extremely low temperatures.

The concoction is supposed to stick to the road better than traditional treatments. And adding beet juice lessens the use and effect of calcium chloride, which corrodes cars, concrete and steel.

[PM_Mama00]

Originally Posted by AGDee

They could use other things like sand too. That's what they use in the south. There's no excuse to not do "something" except that I heard they only have 27 snow plows.

As an aside, they are not salting as many roads or plowing as well as they used to in previous years here in metro Detroit either. It's a money thing, not a green thing though. Some roads just aren't getting done and those roads are getting scary dangerous to drive on.

I heard about Trenton on the news and thought that was ridiculous. Maybe money should first go to safety before they blow it all on the Trenton Street Fair and the Taste of Trenton. My subdivision has been getting plowed and salted constantly, which confuses me. It made sense when Mayor and Chief Hall were in their respected offices, but there is no one of city or county significance here. The roads altogether sucked yesterday.

I think cities and counties need to think of safety first, green later. And really, is using salt REALLY that non-green friendly?

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

I think cities and counties need to think of safety first, green later. And really, is using salt REALLY that non-green friendly?

As living in one of the most tree huggiest States that every exisited, Washington State, according to the "eco-terrorist" salt is ABSOLUTELY NOT green friendly...

But neither are combustible engines that are idling for hours waiting to get home from traffic, which in one area of downtown Seattle, folks waited 2+ hours to just get on a groomed by salted freeway!!!

Now, I can understand using a green alternative in Seattle. Really it's not like other places that REALLY get snow. Most of time, when we do get snow, it's only 2-3 days and it all melts. Zero reason to use salt all the time... But these last storms that many other states felt, ain't no usual 2-3 days of snow--more like 2-3 weeks of it with ice, now...

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

I heard about Trenton on the news and thought that was ridiculous. Maybe money should first go to safety before they blow it all on the Trenton Street Fair and the Taste of Trenton. My subdivision has been getting plowed and salted constantly, which confuses me. It made sense when Mayor and Chief Hall were in their respected offices, but there is no one of city or county significance here. The roads altogether sucked yesterday.

I think cities and counties need to think of safety first, green later. And really, is using salt REALLY that non-green friendly?

They've been plowing and salting my subdivision, but I don't think they ever plowed Van Horn after Friday's dump of snow. So, our side streets were great, but Wayne County roads were awful. They didn't do the turn arounds on Fort for a long time either. Those finally seem ok now. Woodhaven was out today, plowing snow away from some of the storm drains that were covered in the subdivision, because the water in the street had nowhere to go. They've been really good, actually. It's the Wayne County roads.. ugh.

ETA: I was at my uncle's house in Warren tonight and their main roads are fine but his street was awful. It was if they hadn't plowed and now it was half melty/slushy in the street. When it freezes, there will be no driving on that street at all.

[DGTess]

Salt helps melt the snow, but can cause worse issues. Without an extremely precise application, the melted snow simply refreezes and then you have glare ice -- much more dangerous than snow.

Sand is often a significantly better choice. Even a salt/sand mixture is often not as good, as the sand just gets frozen back in to the ice, or washed away.

Smart driving does infinitely better, but "smart drivers" are definitely more the exception than the rule.

Now that geomelt -- if it really keeps ice from forming, it'd be worth its weight in gold.

[PhiGam]

Environmental activism has gone too far, there's no way that using salt to clear roads would seriously endanger the environment!

[VandalSquirrel]

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...leanup23m.html

Here's one article from a Seattle paper which mentions why salt and sand are not their first choice, but doesn't go into much detail. One reason why Seattle wouldn't use the chemicals is more about geography than about tree-hugging. All of that runs into the sewers and directly into Puget Sound. Granted stuff used on the east side can run into the Columbia and the Snake, and eventually out to the Pacific. It is also much more humid on the west side due to the rain forest and the proximity to the Ocean. It is much drier over here, which can help, and it stays colder longer (though it is raining and melting now, ugh, so it can refreeze snow on top of ice).

This article http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/...lackice20.html discusses other alternative deicing such as waste water from cheese making. I'd also not like salt as the underneath of my car has corrosion, which didn't happen from my town, but from previous winters in Alaska before I bought it and from traveling in other states.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by VandalSquirrel

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...leanup23m.html

Here's one article from a Seattle paper which mentions why salt and sand are not their first choice, but doesn't go into much detail. One reason why Seattle wouldn't use the chemicals is more about geography than about tree-hugging. All of that runs into the sewers and directly into Puget Sound. Granted stuff used on the east side can run into the Columbia and the Snake, and eventually out to the Pacific. It is also much more humid on the west side due to the rain forest and the proximity to the Ocean. It is much drier over here, which can help, and it stays colder longer (though it is raining and melting now, ugh, so it can refreeze snow on top of ice).

This article http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/...lackice20.html discusses other alternative deicing such as waste water from cheese making. I'd also not like salt as the underneath of my car has corrosion, which didn't happen from my town, but from previous winters in Alaska before I bought it and from traveling in other states.

While agree with you on an occasional snow that lasts only 2-3 days. It is very irresponsible of KING county of Washington State, to purport this logic when people, nor transportation, can get to their places of work. Other counties, such as Pierce which has Tacoma and Everett, which I think is either Snohomish or its own county (I apologize for not knowing) use salt on their streets.

The other issue Trash has not been picked up for 2-3 weeks in some places because the trucks cannot get to certain areas.

If people are paying property taxes, etc., then they are owed some level of living in human decency. Last I looked, Washington State is a part of the UNITED STATES! And sometimes, King county seems to forget this with their elitist aristocracy. Believe me if the road weren't groomed in Mercer Island, you would have all kinds of laws changed.

The other issue is here: Jesse Jones of King 5 news... He tells it like it is... If you want your street plowed, (206) 386-1218... They are saying no one requested plowing!!! King was not plowing some people's streets because they did not call and request it... Now that is some BS.