Something needs to change

[NerdyGreek]

When recruitment ends and the advice freely being given out is, "Nobody likes their house at first; you'll learn to like it" I feel like something has to change.

My daughter is contemplating de-pledging. So are many of her friends. She's talked to about a dozen girls she was friends with going into rush. Two got into sororities they actually wanted. The other ~10 got bids for houses they didn't like. We're not talking 2nd choices; we're talking houses that were low on the pref lists after the first two rounds. One of her friends has to de-pledge because she got a bid for one of the most expensive sororities - and she can't afford it. (It's over $1000/year more than the one my daughter is in.)

I blame variable quota and RFM. Girls are dropped left and right early on, and are forbidden from dropping houses (they can only rank) which is how you end up with girls in houses they can't afford. Then you have situations like one of D's friends who was dropped by all the houses except ABC because her sister was an ABC at the school. No one asked her if she liked her sister and wanted to be in the same sorority with her. (The answer would have been "no.") It's only the second year of using this combo and I've got to question whether it's the right thing to be doing. I feel like the effort to even house sizes and maximize the number of bids given out is creating artificial groupings of girls who have surviving the process as the sole thing they have in common.

I'm wondering if anyone else involved with a school that uses variable quota and RFM has seen problems with retention?

[33girl]

First off: if you can't afford the most expensive chapter, you shouldn't rush. Also know that different chapters handle financial matters differently. Some have one big fee that covers everything, some have individual fees for formal and such.

As far as RFM being the bad guy...say girls could drop whoever they want. Eventually sororities would close because of low numbers. There would be fewer and fewer groups until there were 3 chapters of 1000 or something ridiculous.

And you know what? A lot of those girls would have probably ended up in the same place even WITHOUT RFM. The difference is, they would have been strung along until pref night by a sorority that in reality they had zero chance of being asked to join. If you find that preferable, we can get rid of RFM tomorrow.

[NerdyGreek]

Originally Posted by 33girl

First off: if you can't afford the most expensive chapter, you shouldn't rush.

That seems awfully harsh. Especially when some chapters have dues that are over $4000/year and don't include living in the house. Why can't affordability be part of the pref/selection criteria? When my daughter signed up for recruitment (and paid over $100 to do so), neither one of us had any idea what the dues were for chapters at the school she is attending. There's a huge range in dues/mandatory fees, too.

Originally Posted by 33girl

As far as RFM being the bad guy...say girls could drop whoever they want. Eventually sororities would close because of low numbers. There would be fewer and fewer groups until there were 3 chapters of 1000 or something ridiculous.

And you know what? A lot of those girls would have probably ended up in the same place even WITHOUT RFM. The difference is, they would have been strung along until pref night by a sorority that in reality they had zero chance of being asked to join. If you find that preferable, we can get rid of RFM tomorrow.

Back when I was in college, each of the sororities on my campus had their own personality. Recruitment really felt like it was a matching process. More social girls were attracted to one house, another had a much more artsy flair, one was more academic, etc. Houses might evolve, and reputations changed over time, but they were not just randomized groups of girls having to get along. No upper classmen were telling us that "nobody likes their sorority at first." like they are telling my daughter and her friends. And it's not like they all wanted the same house and are disappointed, they all had different favorites.

Bid Day should be more joyful than it is. (I watched a video of one of the other houses on her campus on Bid Day where the recruitment chair is reading the list of bids to actives and there aren't a lot of smiles and cheers. It's a lot of stone faces, questioning looks and a few "who?" are visible. Dissatisfaction is on both sides.)

[carnation]

Seven of my daughters have rushed, and I have mixed feelings about RFM. On the one hand, more girls are getting bids and the stronger groups are being forced to drop girls earlier whom they would've strung along until pref parties back in the day. These girls didn't get bids and they never knew what hit them because the sororities had seemed to show interest in them.

On the other hand, my main memory of rush back in the day is that quota was set early, which meant that the stronger groups had huge quotas and pledge classes and the others often folded, one by one. I would never want that again.

[AZTheta]

Originally Posted by NerdyGreek

Bid Day should be more joyful than it is. (I watched a video of one of the other houses on her campus on Bid Day where the recruitment chair is reading the list of bids to actives and there aren't a lot of smiles and cheers. It's a lot of stone faces, questioning looks and a few "who?" are visible. Dissatisfaction is on both sides.)

That is quite surprising, that someone posted a video of that. Bear in mind those actives are exhausted and sleep deprived, just for starters. I wouldn't go so far as to say "dissatisfaction is on both sides", but that's my experience based on decades of volunteering. I don't remember cheers or much energy at all. Everyone was wiped out.

Not sure what campus your daughter is at. At many large campuses (Alabama, Arizona come to mind and I know there are many others) there is a publication which lists, among other things, the typical costs for each chapter. The Arizona publication is called "The Bond". I saw the one for Alabama and was impressed.

[Sciencewoman]

I am a firm believer in publishing transparent costs ahead of time -- in a PNM guidebook, on the campus Panhellenic website, etc. No one benefits if a new member drops because they can't afford the fees. It's also in everyone's best interest to be fairly close/competitive with costs.

I'm not sure it's all RFM or variable quota -- I think there is a generational issue with seeing fabulous over-done recruitment videos and having fairy tale expectations, and tent talk that's gone beyond the tent to website rankings and vitriol. Those weren't around when I was in school. I agree that instead of everyone finding their niche/peeps, there does seem to be a more widespread idealization of wanting the "popular, top tier group." Because if you're not that, your chapter is ripe for getting scorned online. And PNMs check that out. That's so sad.

My husband is a teacher and I am a professor and we have talked about the general air of "cater to me" that seems commonplace now. One of our international council members is the Dean of Students at Ole Miss; she gave an excellent talk at our March facilities conference about today's student and the need to develop "grit." AGDee heard the same talk at Alpha Gamma Delta's convention this summer.

[NerdyGreek]

Originally Posted by AZTheta

Not sure what campus your daughter is at. At many large campuses (Alabama, Arizona come to mind and I know there are many others) there is a publication which lists, among other things, the typical costs for each chapter. The Arizona publication is called "The Bond". I saw the one for Alabama and was impressed.

I would love to see something like this at every school. It's kinda hush-hush on my daughter's campus. They were shown a sheet during rush, but were not allowed to keep a copy of it or even study it for a long time. We talked after every round and she couldn't remember a single figure on that sheet on the day she was shown it. One of the houses did take to asking questions about father's occupation, whether or not the student had a car on campus, and if so, what type. I'm guessing that was to weed out girls that they thought couldn't afford their dues.

The fees at this school run way above national average. My daughter's bill for first semester (not living in the house) is just a tiny bit shy of $2000. Others are over $2500. They must eat meals at the house, but cannot change the campus meal plan they've bought that's required when living in the dorms. We're in serious "Is it worth it?" discussions right now. If she really liked the house, rather than just a handful of girls in her pledge class, I think we wouldn't be questioning it so much.

[carnation]

Is this an SEC school?

[Sciencewoman]

I think there are a lot of people asking the "is it worth it?" question. College is expensive, student loans are a burden, and your question is one I'm hearing more often.

In my experience, it is absolutely worth it. But you have to be in it for a while before you feel and understand the true worth.

[DGTess]

Originally Posted by AZTheta

Bear in mind those actives are exhausted and sleep deprived, just for starters.

Hmmmmmmm.....

I thought that was considered hazing.

[PearlGirl13]

Originally Posted by DGTess

Hmmmmmmm.....

I thought that was considered hazing.

What she means is that the actives aren't getting enough sleep - up early to get ready, a full day of parties followed by member selection, practice for the next round, dinner, socializing with their sisters (add a dash of Netflix and social media surfing but not posting) and finally to bed only to do it all again the following day.

What she does not mean is that someone is depriving or forbidding these women from going to bed. That would be hazing.

[AZTheta]

^^^ thanks!

[IndianaSigKap]

NerdyGreek, I am truly sad that your daughter hasn't found "her people" yet in her chapter.

I attended college on a campus that did not use RFM until the possibly 2008 or so and it was not good prior to that. My grand(little)daughter in my chapter decided to be a recruitment counselor one year because all of our recruitment workshops were held at the same time as another one of her campus groups rehearsed. She called me (even though she wasn't supposed to) beside herself because two of her PMNs had gone to two preference at chapters who notoriously over invited women to preference. These chapters would only take 35 women pledge classes but yet our school allowed them to invite 350 women to reference. In both of these cases, she did not see either PNM fitting into those chapters and had a sinking feeling she would miss our Bid Night because she would be consoling those crushed PNMs. And she was right. She ended up spending most of the night consoling not only those two but two more women who did not match at pref because they were too far down on both chapters' bid lists. This was commonplace at my campus prior to RFM. After RFM, those women have chapters who really wanted them in their chapter and not just wanted them there to fill up a room to look more popular. With RFM, those two women would have been made quota additions to one of the two chapters they attended. I know you may not see a whole lot of upside with RFM right now, but I lived it and I can tell you RMF works. There is no guarantee that your daughter would have bonded with any of the other chapters better than the one she joined. Strong recruiting groups have a way of making every PNM feel special.

[TriDeltaSallie]

Originally Posted by IndianaSigKap

NerdyGreek, I am truly sad that your daughter hasn't found "her people" yet in her chapter.

I attended college on a campus that did not use RFM until the possibly 2008 or so and it was not good prior to that. My grand(little)daughter in my chapter decided to be a recruitment counselor one year because all of our recruitment workshops were held at the same time as another one of her campus groups rehearsed. She called me (even though she wasn't supposed to) beside herself because two of her PMNs had gone to two preference at chapters who notoriously over invited women to preference. These chapters would only take 35 women pledge classes but yet our school allowed them to invite 350 women to reference. In both of these cases, she did not see either PNM fitting into those chapters and had a sinking feeling she would miss our Bid Night because she would be consoling those crushed PNMs. And she was right. She ended up spending most of the night consoling not only those two but two more women who did not match at pref because they were too far down on both chapters' bid lists. This was commonplace at my campus prior to RFM. After RFM, those women have chapters who really wanted them in their chapter and not just wanted them there to fill up a room to look more popular. With RFM, those two women would have been made quota additions to one of the two chapters they attended. I know you may not see a whole lot of upside with RFM right now, but I lived it and I can tell you RMF works. There is no guarantee that your daughter would have bonded with any of the other chapters better than the one she joined. Strong recruiting groups have a way of making every PNM feel special.

Well said.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by NerdyGreek

That seems awfully harsh. Especially when some chapters have dues that are over $4000/year and don't include living in the house. Why can't affordability be part of the pref/selection criteria? When my daughter signed up for recruitment (and paid over $100 to do so), neither one of us had any idea what the dues were for chapters at the school she is attending. There's a huge range in dues/mandatory fees, too.

Back when I was in college, each of the sororities on my campus had their own personality. Recruitment really felt like it was a matching process. More social girls were attracted to one house, another had a much more artsy flair, one was more academic, etc. Houses might evolve, and reputations changed over time, but they were not just randomized groups of girls having to get along. No upper classmen were telling us that "nobody likes their sorority at first." like they are telling my daughter and her friends.

How large were the chapters at your school?

Also re costs, we had a mom on here a few years back who basically wanted to know how her daughter could opt out of the more expensive chapters. The point is you (you = who ever is paying, be it parents or student) can't say "well, I just won't like the expensive chapter." Rush doesn't work that way.