Effects of the New Release Figures

[carnation]

Two things I've noticed that have happened with many, many PNMs we know as a result of the new release figures:

1. If you get cut by several of your favorites after first parties, you can very well end up pledging a "stronger" group than if you get your major cuts after second parties, when you had already cut a bunch yourself. We've known of far more people to drop out after heavy cuts after second parties because they didn't like their returns. Moral of the story: hang in there if you get dropped by a bunch after first parties.

2. At the really competitive schools, legacies have a hard time. Due to the numbers that many groups have to release, they very often release legacies of other houses (especially in-house) after first parties and if the legacy group releases the PNM, she's not left with many choices. I've personally seen this happen to about a dozen great girls in the last 2 years.

What are your observations?

[alum]

My D's Panhel does new release figures. It is definitely a detriment to be a legacy at the non-legacy houses. I remember reading on GC last year that Panhel registration asks the girls if they are legacies and only releasing the info to the legacy house. However, actual rec forms from the individual sororities ask which specific NPC groups with which the girl is a legacy. So the anonymity is gone.

At the school where I advise (VERY different school), Panhel lets girls re-add groups if the later rounds don't go well. So if a girl has to cut for Round 2 because she has too many invites and eliminates XYZ, and then has less than the max number of invites for round 3, she can put XYZ back on her list. I'm not sure how XYZ feels about that, but that's the rule.

[UGAalum94]

I don't have any significant insight into how the releases play out, but is it true that groups are giving more snap bids now than they used to be?

If so, maybe it's time to revive the idea of regret with interest, so that girls can pick back up groups they had to cut and the groups can recover from unexpected no shows or drop outs faster.

I know that someone tried to explain to me that return rates and release numbers get messed up if the groups invite back people that didn't attend that round, but maybe they could be statistically carried though somehow, so that girls would have full parties again.

I always have to remind myself that the outcome for the girls probably isn't that different than it ever was. A group that releases a girl today after first or second round probably didn't actually give similar girls bids in the past.

It may be very true that things play out differently for legacies though. Maybe not revealing legacy status to anyone other than the legacy house is the way to go.

[carnation]

Two years ago, I realized that legacy status was a definite problem when I saw a girl who would have been in demand anywhere else get cut from everywhere but 2 houses after first parties because she was an in-house legacy. Actually, she wanted to explore all the other groups but never got a chance. She had top grades, great activities, pretty, the whole thing, but everyone assumed she wanted her sister's group. She had a pretty lousy time during recruitment sitting in her room and waiting for everyone else to return from their 12 or so parties and go to her 2.

She pledged her sister's house and was okay with that but her mom says she will never forget the crummy time she had when she rushed.

[UGAalum94]

I always try to imagine this in terms of UGA, but it's hard to think of going from 18 to two if you have great grades, etc.

Don't some groups get to invite almost everyone back because their returns are lower? Wouldn't that mean that some groups would keep other groups' legacies too?

Well, in addition to discouraging girls from listing legacies on the rush application, maybe we should keep in mind the harm of listing legacies or rec. forms since we always want the girls we write recs for to have a great experience.

What are the highest percentages that "weaker" groups get to invite back?

[KSUViolet06]

The biggeest groups had to make substantial cuts of sometimes HALF or more of the women after first party. That was rough for recruitment in general because alot of women dropped out because they had their hearts set on being invited back there (not knowing the cuts the group had to make). Yes, they had to let go of substantial #'s of legacies too. That was rough too because girls are more likely to drop if they get cut by their legacy house.

Alphagamuga- The smallest group on our campus did not have to release anyone according to the figures. They released a few women anyway though I think.

[carnation]

I swear that when the rest of my daughters rush, we're leaving out the names of all the sororities they're legacies to. We'll make sure the legacy groups get several recs.

If they rush at Birmingham Southern, though, we might have to list the names of the legacy sororities for a laugh. I would really like to see the looks on the faces of the Panhellenic reps when they open the application and see that here's a girl who's a legacy to 4 of the 6 sororities, lol.

Anyway, lots of PNMs come over here for rush advice and I'm trying to think of a way to tell them--especially if there's a good chance they won't make the groups considered A-1 (and I know that ticks off some GCers but many PNMs here go into rush with a list of those) that they should hang onto some of the solid middle-of the road chapters for second parties. After the massive cuts after second parties, they may wish they could still go back to those but too late, they cut them after first because they wanted to go back to the "name" groups. I just can't think of how to phrase it because every rushee in the world starts out recruitment thinking that she'll have her choice of sororities.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by carnation

Anyway, lots of PNMs come over here for rush advice and I'm trying to think of a way to tell them--especially if there's a good chance they won't make the groups considered A-1 (and I know that ticks off some GCers but many PNMs here go into rush with a list of those) that they should hang onto some of the solid middle-of the road chapters for second parties. After the massive cuts after second parties, they may wish they could still go back to those but too late, they cut them after first because they wanted to go back to the "name" groups. I just can't think of how to phrase it because every rushee in the world starts out recruitment thinking that she'll have her choice of sororities.

Just tell them that the more popular a group is, the more women they will have to cut - even if they're great women. I would compare it to college admissions. They've all been through that and know to have "safety" schools and not just apply to Harvard. If they did that, they would be sitting around at the end of their senior year with no clue where they're going or having to settle for a school they never thought they would end up at.

[alum]

Originally Posted by carnation

I swear that when the rest of my daughters rush, we're leaving out the names of all the sororities they're legacies to. We'll make sure the legacy groups get several recs.

Assuming that you recommend getting recs for ALL sororities on a campus, will you specifically ask the non-legacy rec writer NOT to list the affiliations on the rec form?

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by carnation

.

Anyway, lots of PNMs come over here for rush advice and I'm trying to think of a way to tell them--especially if there's a good chance they won't make the groups considered A-1 (and I know that ticks off some GCers but many PNMs here go into rush with a list of those) that they should hang onto some of the solid middle-of the road chapters for second parties. After the massive cuts after second parties, they may wish they could still go back to those but too late, they cut them after first because they wanted to go back to the "name" groups. I just can't think of how to phrase it because every rushee in the world starts out recruitment thinking that she'll have her choice of sororities.

I understand completely what you mean. It's tough to give tactful advice and it's hard to get even the nicest 18 year old to take it. I think you are right in what you are trying to direct them toward, but especially since the A1s are such good rushers, the PNMs are going to have a hard time accepting what you are saying until after they get cut.

[susan314]

Originally Posted by carnation

Anyway, lots of PNMs come over here for rush advice and I'm trying to think of a way to tell them--especially if there's a good chance they won't make the groups considered A-1 (and I know that ticks off some GCers but many PNMs here go into rush with a list of those) that they should hang onto some of the solid middle-of the road chapters for second parties. After the massive cuts after second parties, they may wish they could still go back to those but too late, they cut them after first because they wanted to go back to the "name" groups. I just can't think of how to phrase it because every rushee in the world starts out recruitment thinking that she'll have her choice of sororities.

This is one way in which I was glad that I rushed as a freshman who had no clue about sororities in general (and certainly no clue about the specific reputations on my campus). After the first round of rush, I cut a couple of "name" chapters - my Rho Chis looked at me strangely when I reviewed my list with them, and one of them actually said "are you sure you want to do that?" (She ended up being my sister in a smaller chapter and said it was so unusual for someone to do what I did, that she just wanted to make sure I had filled out my card correctly. She didn't want me to come to them upset later about it.)

It worked out well for me though - the "name" chapters that I cut would likely have cut me after 2nd round anyhow, and I didn't pass up opportunities with other great chapters just to get strung along by a "name" chapter.

[carnation]

Oh, I know, alphagamuga. You go to those parties and even if there's no way you're getting in, they'll make you feel like the number one woman on their bid list. Then when the invitations come back...

And a lot of those recruitment brochures don't mention that you might not get your first or even eighth choice. Or last. They say, "as a new member, you will get to do this or that" and it never occurs to PNMs that they might not pledge. And then there are those songs, sung even on the first day: "We want you for the red, yellow and blue" and that kind of thing. Each PNM is sure they're singing to her individually.

[Denise_DPhiE]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Just tell them that the more popular a group is, the more women they will have to cut - even if they're great women. I would compare it to college admissions. They've all been through that and know to have "safety" schools and not just apply to Harvard. If they did that, they would be sitting around at the end of their senior year with no clue where they're going or having to settle for a school they never thought they would end up at.

^^^^^^
What she said. Amen!!!!!

[honeychile]

Originally Posted by carnation

Two years ago, I realized that legacy status was a definite problem when I saw a girl who would have been in demand anywhere else get cut from everywhere but 2 houses after first parties because she was an in-house legacy. Actually, she wanted to explore all the other groups but never got a chance. She had top grades, great activities, pretty, the whole thing, but everyone assumed she wanted her sister's group. She had a pretty lousy time during recruitment sitting in her room and waiting for everyone else to return from their 12 or so parties and go to her 2.

She pledged her sister's house and was okay with that but her mom says she will never forget the crummy time she had when she rushed.

That happened this year at one school, too, only it was a direct legacy, not in-house. Part of me understands that, with the Release figures, a chapter needs to make their best guess as to who would accept the invitations, yet the part of me who didn't go with her legacy chapter says, Give the PNM a chance to be her own person!

All that, and I think the Release Figures are wonderful!


Edited to avoid a double post:

Originally Posted by carnation

Anyway, lots of PNMs come over here for rush advice and I'm trying to think of a way to tell them--especially if there's a good chance they won't make the groups considered A-1 (and I know that ticks off some GCers but many PNMs here go into rush with a list of those) that they should hang onto some of the solid middle-of the road chapters for second parties. After the massive cuts after second parties, they may wish they could still go back to those but too late, they cut them after first because they wanted to go back to the "name" groups. I just can't think of how to phrase it because every rushee in the world starts out recruitment thinking that she'll have her choice of sororities.

Actually, prior to even going to college, it was so highly stressed to me that the sororities select the PNM, not the other way around, that I naively thought that anyone who wasn't in a sorority or fraternity had tried to get a bid, but didn't succeed!

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by carnation

And a lot of those recruitment brochures don't mention that you might not get your first or even eighth choice. Or last. They say, "as a new member, you will get to do this or that" and it never occurs to PNMs that they might not pledge.

The newest recruitment page at UGA tells women that recommendations are not required for any group* too. It's almost as if PNMs are sabotaged at every turn by the official advice. Sure, it is officially the responsibility of the group to get you one if the group needs it, but I don't think it's a good idea for the girls to count on that on a highly competitive campus.

I think starkly realistic information from all sources would help young women through the process more than the consistently optimistic stuff they get instead.

*Correction added 4/7: This in only in the FAQs section. The actual recruitment guide does in fact do a good job explaining the importance of recs. I want to retract my claims about the fine people in the UGA Greek Life Office.