Judge dismisses Wyoming KKG lawsuit

[TLLK]

https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-...ing-rcna102261

CHEYENNE, Wyo. — A judge has dismissed a lawsuit contesting a transgender woman’s admission into a sorority at the University of Wyoming, ruling that he could not override how the private, voluntary organization defined a woman and order that she not belong.
In the lawsuit, six members of the Kappa Kappa Gamma sorority chapter challenged Artemis Langford’s admission by casting doubt on whether sorority rules allowed a transgender woman. Wyoming U.S. District Court Judge Alan Johnson, in his ruling, found that sorority bylaws don’t define who’s a woman.

[carnation]

I saw. Luckily, the suit was dismissed without prejudice so they can refile it and actually, this gives them pointers on how to refile.

Nobody should feel unsafe in their own house.

[honeychile]

Originally Posted by carnation

I saw. Luckily, the suit was dismissed without prejudice so they can refile it and actually, this gives them pointers on how to refile.

Nobody should feel unsafe in their own house.

THIS!!!

[AZTheta]

Once again we see that the courts are reluctant to interfere or intervene in the affairs of private organizations.

I’m with you, carnation and honeychile. Totally. REFILE is my mantra now.

[navane]

Originally Posted by article

A judge has dismissed a lawsuit contesting a transgender woman’s admission into a sorority at the University of Wyoming, ruling that he could not override how the private, voluntary organization defined a woman and order that she not belong.

Originally Posted by AZTheta

Once again we see that the courts are reluctant to interfere or intervene in the affairs of private organizations.

As they should be, right? The government shouldn't have the right to tell me that I can or cannot belong to the Southern California Knitters' Club or whatever. We have the right to free association in our private organizations and that includes GLOs. We want to protect our ability to select our own members. So this knife is going to cut both ways.

I personally think the members' issue is with KKG HQ.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by navane

As they should be, right? The government shouldn't have the right to tell me that I can or cannot belong to the Southern California Knitters' Club or whatever. We have the right to free association in our private organizations and that includes GLOs. We want to protect our ability to select our own members. So this knife is going to cut both ways.

Exactly.

I personally think the members' issue is with KKG HQ.

I've been saying this all along.

An unqualified, alleged creeper was forced upon the chapter by the national organization.

If a straight woman who the chapter deemed wasn't acceptable due to grades and behavior was forced upon the chapter by the national org, we'd be looking at the exact same concern.

This issue should have been handled internally from the start.

[carnation]

I got the impression that the reason it went to a suit was that the national and local KKG execs wouldn't listen to the members who were upset. Always a bad move!

However, not only did this guy have sucky grades but he did some really creepy stuff that made many members uncomfortable and unsafe.

[navane]

Originally Posted by carnation

I got the impression that the reason it went to a suit was that the national and local KKG execs wouldn't listen to the members who were upset. Always a bad move!

Well.....yes.....that absolutely is a bad move.....but that doesn't make it a federal case.

KKG is a private organization. I can understand and sympathize with the members feeling like they are not being heard regarding what they feel is a very uncomfortable situation. However, as hard as it is to swallow, the members need to take their member selection dispute up with their private organization.

[carnation]

A lot of the NPC groups say that they're trying to be more transparent lately but only because so many millions of dollars of donations have disappeared. The groups deserve that. I don't know how they think they can make decisions for the whole membership like they have...I've heard some horror stories from friends in various NPCs, all of whom donate their money elsewhere now.

[jolene]

Wow. I got a temporary ban on the Sororities subreddit by simply saying women are losing their spaces, and agreeing with someone who made an innocent comment about not being happy. There was no name calling or derogatory terms used, etc. Now people can't even disagree when it comes to bio males entering a sorority.

[honeychile]

One of the other strange parts is that you don't ever hear about women joining a fraternity. I think we all know how that would end.

[Cheerio]

Originally Posted by honeychile

One of the other strange parts is that you don't ever hear about women joining a fraternity. I think we all know how that would end.

Perhaps a few of our GC readers have good memories and can help me here...didn't a few chapters of Delta Upsilon and/or Psi Upsilon go coed sometime since the late 1960s? I'm thinking more at private schools such as UChicago.

And did those chapters then have their charters pulled by their national organizations? Or perhaps they chose on their own to go local?

[Low D Flat]

Yes, there are a number of fraternity chapters that have gone coed, largely at elite private schools in the Northeast. Psi Upsilon allows this. So does Kappa Alpha Society and Theta Tau. Other chapters have gotten charters pulled for various reasons but have thrived as co-ed locals (ex. Tabard at Dartmouth).

[33girl]

Originally Posted by navane

Well.....yes.....that absolutely is a bad move.....but that doesn't make it a federal case.

KKG is a private organization. I can understand and sympathize with the members feeling like they are not being heard regarding what they feel is a very uncomfortable situation. However, as hard as it is to swallow, the members need to take their member selection dispute up with their private organization.

When you’re pretty much told “if you don’t like it, you can quit” I would say you have run into a brick wall regarding taking it up with the organization. As many things that get labeled hazing because they “place one sister above another” KKG has done exactly that. They have shown that Artemis, who keep in mind did not meet grade requirements and was voted on in an unorthodox fashion, is more important than the members who filed the lawsuit. Perhaps when they refile they should throw in a hazing charge.

[navane]

Originally Posted by 33girl

When you’re pretty much told “if you don’t like it, you can quit” I would say you have run into a brick wall regarding taking it up with the organization. As many things that get labeled hazing because they “place one sister above another” KKG has done exactly that. They have shown that Artemis, who keep in mind did not meet grade requirements and was voted on in an unorthodox fashion, is more important than the members who filed the lawsuit. Perhaps when they refile they should throw in a hazing charge.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying that KKG did the right thing here, especially with the unorthodox way they apparently went about their member selection. I do agree that "hitting a brick wall" within the organization is frustrating. 100%

My point is that I am not at all surprised the court said that there wasn't much they could do to help a private organization which voted this member in. I think the lawsuit was as more about bringing attention and saying to KKG HQ that "we're serious", than it was about having any actual legal standing.

KKG is having their Convention this next spring. Perhaps the members need to make themselves heard during the general session. The problem is that people are afraid to speak up because they don't want to lose their membership and, that my friends, is where KKG has got them where they want them.