Cornell fraternity president arrested

[NWguy]

This is hitting major news circles today:

http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/05/us/cor...ons/index.html

[Tom Earp]

I totally disagree with closing the entire Fraternity down because of actions of one member!

[NWguy]

Agreed. In a situation where only a handful, or a few members are responsible for an incident, I don't believe the entire chapter should be punished.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by NWguy

Agreed. In a situation where only a handful, or a few members are responsible for an incident, I don't believe the entire chapter should be punished.

I would usually agree, but the alleged assault occurred in their fraternity house, so it's not surprising that they would at least temporarily suspend operations.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

This guy is the president, and it happened in the house. I would strongly suspect that this is not an out-of-the-blue incident, and HQ is right to figure out what is going on.

[Tom Earp]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

This guy is the president, and it happened in the house. I would strongly suspect that this is not an out-of-the-blue incident, and HQ is right to figure out what is going on.

To both of the above posters, it was one member, not the entire chapter. We do not know if this was a one time only incident do we?

If we use an example, if a kid rapes a girl in his parents house, should they be arrested?

If a girl is raped in a certain kind of car, should the car maker be blame?

So why should each member be penalized????

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by Tom Earp

To both of the above posters, it was one member, not the entire chapter. We do not know if this was a one time only incident do we?

If we use an example, if a kid rapes a girl in his parents house, should they be arrested?

If a girl is raped in a certain kind of car, should the car maker be blame?

So why should each member be penalized????

They didn't arrest the entire chapter, nor is anyone blaming them. They temporarily suspended operations. The chapter hasn't been shut down.

And if a person rapes someone in their parents home, then yes, I imagine an investigation would take place and the parents would be questioned (just like with this fraternity chapter). The car manufacturer example isn't even comparable to the present situation, so I won't respond to that.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by Tom Earp

We do not know if this was a one time only incident do we?

I am personally unaware of any situation where an otherwise 100% upstanding individual who respects women suddenly rapes someone. YMMV.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

I am personally unaware of any situation where an otherwise 100% upstanding individual who respects women suddenly rapes someone. YMMV.

Let's be clear that whether he committed the rape remains to be seen. He is accused, not proved guilty. I recall similar allegations in a case occurring at the University of Virginia and at the word "go," many here were ready to lock up the accused and throw away the key.

From the Title IX standpoint, it can be very frustrating for the accused because you're put into a position where you either take the stand and possibly unknowingly say things a prosecutor will have a field day with, or you exercise your right to silence and get convicted by the Title IX panel because you stay silent knowing that a single misstatement could mean imprisonment, registering as a sex-offender, etc. Suddenly a he-said/she-said becomes a she-said and the preponderance of the evidence standard is met. Don't confuse the school's action as any indication that anyone has proved anything happened.

The pendulum has swung so far in favor of the rights of alleged victims that I think we have forgotten the need to protect the rights of the accused.

[NWguy]

I can see an incident like the ATOs at IU, where multiple people were involved, is reason to suspend, or shut down, a chapter. But we're talking about one individual arrested - yes, he's the chapter president, but he was the only person arrested.

This wasn't a gang rape, it was a one-on-one incident where a woman has stated that non-consensual sex took place. So, why should the entire chapter be punished for an incident involving just two people, only one of which is member of the fraternity?

The issue is that the alleged incident happened at the fraternity house. However, unless it happened out in the open - vs. behind closed doors - then it was an incident between two people that nobody else was a witness to, or participated in, and that's why I don't think the entire chapter should be suspended.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Let's be clear that whether he committed the rape remains to be seen. He is accused, not proved guilty.

Right, I was responding to the "just one person" aspect, not the "guilty or innocent."

Maybe there was no rape, but if there was, I have a hard time believing that the guy isn't an ongoing problem, and moreso, that a group of guys who elected him are living up to the highest standards of their fraternity.

Interestingly, I think this is one of the reasons that so many people are afraid of "he-said, she-said." They are afraid they could be the target of an out-of-the-blue accusation which would cause them serious damage.

In every case with which I have experience (which is a frighteningly large number for a single person), the accused had a pattern of behavior that would suggest they did not respect boundaries, would make people uncomfortable, etc. I don't have any good citations to back this up, but my general perception is that these are rarely isolated incidents.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Interestingly, I think this is one of the reasons that so many people are afraid of "he-said, she-said." They are afraid they could be the target of an out-of-the-blue accusation which would cause them serious damage.

In my experience, this concern is a rational one.

[Sororitysock]

Originally Posted by Tom Earp

If a girl is raped in a certain kind of car, should the car maker be blame?

Please mansplain' some more of this to us.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Tom Earp

If a girl is raped in a certain kind of car, should the car maker be blame?

If that car is a Saab, yes. Everyone knows Saabs are real rape wagons.

--seriously though, chapter cultures can be toxic. While this is probably not something you've ever had to deal with at Lambda Chi Alpha at Gorilla State, the sort of climate you maintain within your chapter can be conducive to sexual violence. Nationally, we're implementing some pretty serious programming about sexual violence awareness. Most chapters take this stuff very seriously, but I'm sure there are chapters who just fart it off.

I'll agree with your basic premise though that the idea that simply because the President is accused of doing something badly, and that possibly, it looks worse than the evidence would show because the school's Title IX process [and here's where I totally speculate] doesn't really afford a presumption of innocence and considers the accused's invocation of his 5th Amendment rights to be an admission of probable guilt.

Regarding this situation, it's waaay too early to be making judgment calls.

But I'll always welcome a discussion as to why the Title IX process is complete bullshit with regard to the manner the accused's rights are handled--not to mention the fact that school officials are not required to involve law enforcement when being made aware of sexual violence. I'm happy to discuss those things anytime.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by Kevin

--seriously though, chapter cultures can be toxic. While this is probably not something you've ever had to deal with at Lambda Chi Alpha at Gorilla State, the sort of climate you maintain within your chapter can be conducive to sexual violence. Nationally, we're implementing some pretty serious programming about sexual violence awareness. Most chapters take this stuff very seriously, but I'm sure there are chapters who just fart it off.

Right. This is where you and I are in agreement. I don't think it's so strange that HQ wants to put chapter activity on hold and poke around to see what's up.