Woman dies while in-flight; Airline disputes relative's tale

texas*princess · #1 02-25-2008, 07:56 PM

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23327116/?GT1=10856

Quote:

NEW YORK - American Airlines on Monday insisted it tried to help a passenger who died after complaining she could not breathe, and disputed the account of a relative who said that she was denied oxygen and that medical devices failed.

The airline said the oxygen tanks and a defibrillator on the flight from Haiti were working and noted that several medical professionals on the flight, including a doctor, tried to save the passenger, Carine Desir, 44, who had heart disease.

"American Airlines, after investigation, has determined that oxygen was administered on the aircraft, and it was working, and the defibrillator was applied as well," airline spokesman Charley Wilson said Monday.

Basically the relative is saying the flight attendants waited too long and that the oxygen tanks were empty... American says the flight attendants acted admiraly and according to how they were trained and that the equipment was working fine..

It is a scary situation all around... no telling how it is going to end... (i.e. if the relative will try suing or something)

I will say though I hope no one was actually sitting in the First Class cabin. The woman's body was put in the aisle of the FC cabin with a blanket over it for the remainder of the flight.

I realize they probably don't have a 'contengency plan' of what to do in case someone passes during a flight.. but really? That must have been disturbing.

The medical examiner did say the woman died of complications of heart disease & diabetes.

UGAalum94 · #2 02-25-2008, 08:47 PM

If the oxygen tanks were empty or they delayed in providing oxygen, it seems pretty bad, but oxygen isn't going prevent you from dying of heart disease, I wouldn't think.

The passenger's relative is saying the defibrillator malfunctioned, but the airline says it wouldn't work on her because her heart rhythm was too weak to shock back into natural rhythm.

I think it's sad the woman is dead no matter what, but I'm not sure that you can reasonably expect that airline personnel are going to save your life if you have a heart attack or a heart-disease related event mid-flight. I'll bet there's going to be a suit, so maybe we'll find out more about what obligation the airline has.

It would be a little freaky to have a dead body on the flight near you, but I'm not sure what the options are. There were probably fewer people and more space in 1st class.

ETA: Random literary moment: there's a short story, I think it might be by Willa Cather, about a women whose husband dies while they are on a cross country train trip and she decides that she has to pretend he's sleeping for the rest of the trip to the porters, conductors, etc, so they don't make them get off in the middle of nowhere to see an undertaker and wait for the next train. She knows that it's the difference between being home in less than a day and not being home for a week. I don't know that I could pull it off. I think I would be freaked out so much.

texas*princess · #3 02-25-2008, 09:06 PM

I really hope that the doctors/nurses that tried to help the woman on the flight don't get pulled into the suit if there is one since they were individuals who intervened to help the woman.

If they do get pulled into a suit, I would imagine it would make doctors/nurses think twice about trying to help someone in a situation like that for fears of getting sued for unsuccessful attempts to save an individual.

AOII Angel · #4 02-25-2008, 09:11 PM

From reading the reports on MSN.com, this woman was not feeling well all day and probably should not have flown. Unfortunately, you cannot treat a heart attack in the air. Defibrillators only work if you are in V Fib...she may not have been. Oxygen would have helped her be comfortable, but I don't think the airlines have a mandate to have O2 available. They aren't a hospital. You can't blame the airline for a patient's bad health and its complications. I also don't expect a patient's family member to be able to give a reliable accounting of the events given the stress of the situation. Also, if the family member has no medical training, how would he know if things were not done correctly?

UGAalum94 · #5 02-25-2008, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by texas*princess

I really hope that the doctors/nurses that tried to help the woman on the flight don't get pulled into the suit if there is one since they were individuals who intervened to help the woman.

If they do get pulled into a suit, I would imagine it would make doctors/nurses think twice about trying to help someone in a situation like that for fears of getting sued for unsuccessful attempts to save an individual.

Aren't there some built in protections for people under these circumstances?

SWTXBelle · #6 02-25-2008, 09:12 PM

Are there federal "Good Samaritan" laws?

pbear19 · #7 02-25-2008, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Are there federal "Good Samaritan" laws?

I had to dig up my book from my CPR class (which I just renewed two months ago so it is a newly printed book), the Good Samaritan laws are state laws. There is a law in all 50 states, varying slightly by state. I have no idea how the law is applied however in a flight from Haiti to NY.

The one thing I always took away from the GS laws is that you are expected to act 'within the scope' of your training. In other words, if you have only seen CPR done on TV and you break someone's ribs while attempting to mimic, you most likely would not be protected. That I think is something many people wouldn't be aware of.

Sorry for the slight hijack...

texas*princess · #8 02-25-2008, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbear19

I had to dig up my book from my CPR class (which I just renewed two months ago so it is a newly printed book), the Good Samaritan laws are state laws. There is a law in all 50 states, varying slightly by state. I have no idea how the law is applied however in a flight from Haiti to NY.

The one thing I always took away from the GS laws is that you are expected to act 'within the scope' of your training. In other words, if you have only seen CPR done on TV and you break someone's ribs while attempting to mimic, you most likely would not be protected. That I think is something many people wouldn't be aware of.

Sorry for the slight hijack...

thanks for the info.. i wasn't sure if anything like that would exist to protect those who tried to help.

AXi1257 · #9 02-26-2008, 12:06 AM

I see dead bodies all the time so I could sit in first class without a problem.

Oh yeah- I'm a critical care RN so I'm around acutely ill people all the time and have coded so many I don't even have a guess at a number.

On a serious note- You need a shockable rhythm to have an AED function- that means V-tach or V-fib. If you're in a heart block, PEA, asystole, SVT, etc it is of no use. I wouldn't expect flight attendants to know how to 'save a life' other than basic CPR including use of the AED. Oxygen would not have saved this woman's life. I'm sure an investigation will occur, but their shouldn't be a lawsuit. At least I wouldn't award them damages.

AKA_Monet · #10 02-26-2008, 01:39 AM

Wow! We know so little of the passengers preboard health... We have no clear indication what her problems were in-flight other than the first-responders. She also could have had embolism or a stroke... Did the healthcare worker hear her heart rhythms? And I agree with the others, AED may have done very little without essential EMT equipment. The article stated she was a diabetic, she could have been going into post-prandial glucose shock which would have also caused heart palpitations and sometimes inability to breathe. The flight attendants did make the call to deliver O2 and although O2 may have not given her relief neither did defib. A 44 year old diabetic woman could have had silent myocardial ischemia leading to cardiac arrest... The riskiest thing to do to her is cool her down. But only a cardiologist should make that call...

PeppyGPhiB · #11 02-26-2008, 01:43 AM

According to the airline, the plane had 12 oxygen tanks on board. Twelve seems excessive to me, but by law they are required to have at least two. All involved say that the oxygen tanks were used. The family member being quoted obviously does not understand the ins-and-outs of CPR and defibs...he referred to the defib. as a "box" to the investigators and told people none of the tanks or the "box" worked. What he doesn't seem to be grasping is that they just didn't work on his relative.

Kevlar281 · #12 02-26-2008, 02:03 PM

It’s amazing how many people think that if someone’s heart stops, they stop breathing or both they will be revived with CPR or an AED. It’s not an absolute but unfortunately TV has perpetuated this mindset. I’d say the biggest culprit is/was Baywatch. It seemed like every drowning victim was revived after a few seconds of CPR/Rescue Breathing on that stupid show. Well enough of that rant. Who knows what was going on in that situation but if she had stopped breathing and her heart had stopped the best thing they could do was provide CPR to keep blood and oxygen flow to her vital systems until they could get her to proper facilities. It sounds like the relative was expecting spontaneous consciousness.

Here is an interesting article about how TV shows have changed the public’s perception about effectiveness of CPR and other lifesaving measures.

Tom Earp · #13 02-26-2008, 04:49 PM

American Airlines says they did nothing wrong!

Makes me want to fly them, NOT!

How in the heck can oxygen bottles be empty?

Something is wrong with this picture!

texas*princess · #14 02-26-2008, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Earp

American Airlines says they did nothing wrong!

Makes me want to fly them, NOT!

How in the heck can oxygen bottles be empty?

Something is wrong with this picture!

I doubt that the tanks were empty. Like Peppy said, the relative didn't seem to understand what was going on, all the knew was that the two different oxygen tanks they tried and the "box" didn't help the woman.

pbear19 · #15 02-26-2008, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevlar281

It’s amazing how many people think that if someone’s heart stops, they stop breathing or both they will be revived with CPR or an AED.

I hugely agree with this, it's actually the first thing I thought of when I read this. CPR is hardly ever effective, AED only marginally more so. I've been trained that the breathing portion of CPR is of minimal value, that if you cannot come to terms with putting your mouth over a stranger's mouth that the chest compressions alone will be almost the same as compressions with breaths.

Current CPR training is 30 chest compressions to 2 rescue breaths, but on TV it's maybe 5 to 5.

And of course, anyone whose heart stops, no matter for how long, seems to live on TV.

I lost a close family member a bit over a year ago after his heart stopped. He was finally revived, but it was too late, his brain was gone. Of course a couple days later I saw someone on TV fully recover after an almost identical situation. It just doesn't work that way in real life.