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04-27-2008, 11:56 AM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Down the street
Posts: 9,791
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaemonSeid
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coooool...thanks. 
That's different than the ad that I have saved. I like the one you found better.
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04-27-2008, 12:10 PM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: location, location... isn't that what it's all about?
Posts: 4,206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shinerbock
Nittany, I didn't see anything indicating that Jon was in favor of infringing on the right to assemble.
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That's because we're reading it through different prisms of opinions and thought.
And I love the Roca Wear ad. Look at those beautiful babies.
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04-27-2008, 12:53 PM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Greater NorthEast
Posts: 3,185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaemonSeid
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There is still the civil case......
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04-27-2008, 12:56 PM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,255
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Well, I'll admit that when I first heard about the ad, my first reaction was distaste. I immediately thought "is she getting paid for this?" and that didn't sit well with me. I think it is odd to capitalize on this type of fame, and for Roca to do the same.
But, maybe she isn't getting paid. Maybe everyone is acting as an advocate, which although I'm not sure I agree with it (because I'm not sure what justice is here, though my opinions have certainly not been formed against such a campaign), it is much less disconcerting to me.
But even if she is getting paid, I'm not sure I find it as appalling as I did when first hearing of it. She's presumably devoted a lot of time to this, and she's got a family to care for. I think in this scenario (a more traditional ad relationship), my discomfort would come from Roca, which is probably reaping some financial benefit from the exposure. But, who says you can't mix activism with business.
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04-27-2008, 12:59 PM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Greater NorthEast
Posts: 3,185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nittanyalum
And Jon, it only takes inflammatory assumptions like in your first sentence to lead down the slippery slope of infringing on civil liberties. Denying citizens their rights to peaceably assemble and redress grievances is how totalitarian governments squelch the voice of the people. Trying to justify it by inciting fear of violence before anything even happens is manipulation at its worst.
I also caught how you made sure to refer to "peace" officers in an earlier post. That title has not been earned by the police officers in this case. That does not mean that citizens as a whole distrust or don't see the need for police officers in general (who at their best, are "peace" officers). But it does mean that when someone who wears a badge blatantly does something wrong, the badge shouldn't protect them from being held accountable. Which is too often the case.
And another person said something about people needing to get as upset about police officer shootings as they are in this case. I think people's sympathies are always with officers (and their families) who are lost while they are faithfully executing their duties. However, name a case where a police officer was killed in a hail of 50 bullets, the shooters were caught, and they walked.
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Do you know/understand the term Peace Officer? If not:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_officers
Covers the reasons I used the term.
As for Peace Officers being shot and shooters getting away with it; while I do not have a case in hand in the back of my mind I d believe that it has happened.
I will look around for it.
And since you brought it up, perhaps you too can see what evidence is out there.
I did find this story:
2 plead guilty in Atlanta police shooting death
Manslaughter pleas come after 3 officers indicted for killing elderly woman
ATLANTA - Two police officers pleaded guilty to manslaughter Thursday in the shooting death of a 92-year-old woman during a botched drug raid. A third officer was also indicted in the woman’s death.
Gregg Junnier, 40, who retired from the Atlanta police force in January, pleaded guilty to manslaughter, violation of oath, criminal solicitation and making false statements.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18328267/
And Rev Al has yet to show any interest in this:
Off-duty Md. officer fatally shot by city police
http://www.policeone.com/officer-sho...y-city-police/
Last edited by jon1856; 04-27-2008 at 01:22 PM.
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04-27-2008, 01:24 PM
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Location: location, location... isn't that what it's all about?
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I'll leave the linkages up to you, Jon, that's what you do. IF there is a case where a police officer was shot 50 times, the shooters were caught and they didn't get a hefty sentence for killing that cop, I would LOVE to see it. If it existed, I'm sure we'd all be aware of it.
And the definition of "peace" officer isn't what I was questioning, it was your use in sympathy with the police and your obvious "bend" in this case.
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04-27-2008, 01:30 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nittanyalum
I'll leave the linkages up to you, Jon, that's what you do. IF there is a case where a police officer was shot 50 times, the shooters were caught and they didn't get a hefty sentence for killing that cop, I would LOVE to see it. If it existed, I'm sure we'd all be aware of it.
And the definition of "peace" officer isn't what I was questioning, it was your use in sympathy with the police and your obvious "bend" in this case.
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I only do it to provide information and facts. Too many times in any kind of discussion, that sort of stuff goes missing.
So, the offer and suggestion is still open.
Just as how many people today remember the three other lives wreaked by the TB matter that Rev Al walked away from??
I ask that only as a pointer that we all do not know or recall everything that goes on.
And your "bend" may be showing in your POV of my use of a term.
Look back at my OP and you may just see how the definition is used.
And FYI, there are matters involved in this case that do truly bother me. And many of them, if not all, have already been brought up.
Last edited by jon1856; 04-27-2008 at 01:35 PM.
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04-27-2008, 01:48 PM
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GreekChat Member
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Location: location, location... isn't that what it's all about?
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Oh, I'll state and stand behind my bend in this case -- those officers killed that man in cold blood and are free to return to their lives and families. It's unconscionable. They should be locked up and made to pay for their crime just like anyone else who did what they did (but didn't have a badge to protect them). And worse, it doesn't send a signal of support or comfort to the society around them that are supposed to trust them and put their lives in their hands, nor does it give a lesson to other members of the force that actions like this won't just be swept under the rug. When citizens carry fear or mistrust of the police, it is because of incidents like this. So call them whatever you want, a p.r. campaign won't erase the appalling injustice in this (and similar) cases.
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04-27-2008, 02:16 PM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: Jun 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nittanyalum
Oh, I'll state and stand behind my bend in this case -- those officers killed that man in cold blood and are free to return to their lives and families. It's unconscionable. They should be locked up and made to pay for their crime just like anyone else who did what they did (but didn't have a badge to protect them). And worse, it doesn't send a signal of support or comfort to the society around them that are supposed to trust them and put their lives in their hands, nor does it give a lesson to other members of the force that actions like this won't just be swept under the rug. When citizens carry fear or mistrust of the police, it is because of incidents like this. So call them whatever you want, a p.r. campaign won't erase the appalling injustice in this (and similar) cases.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nittanyalum
I'll leave the linkages up to you, Jon, that's what you do. IF there is a case where a police officer was shot 50 times, the shooters were caught and they didn't get a hefty sentence for killing that cop, I would LOVE to see it. If it existed, I'm sure we'd all be aware of it.
And Nittanyalum-I too have been profiled, stopped and pulled over. And searched.
And the definition of "peace" officer isn't what I was questioning, it was your use in sympathy with the police and your obvious "bend" in this case.
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And if one were to take your posting on its very face:
If a Peace Officer were to be shot only once or twice, knifed two or three times, or run over by a car once or twice and then dies, and the person goes free, all is OK?
I am sure that you do not mean or believe that, but your posting could indicate that.
And I only pointed it out as an example of emotions and just how they can have an impact on a persons thoughts and actions.
Last edited by jon1856; 04-27-2008 at 02:18 PM.
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04-27-2008, 02:28 PM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,783
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I believe in the justice system.
I did not hear the evidence.
The lack of a jury trial is can be a disadvantage to the defendant, which is why it is up to the defendant to waive it or not.
I am not upset at the judge.
I would like to know how the prosecutors did or did not do their job.
Do I really care? Probably not.
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04-27-2008, 03:03 PM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: In a house.
Posts: 9,564
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One thing to keep in mind also Sen I.
The officers gambled (correctly) to not have a jury trial...
most people woukd think it to be insane...however
The Amadou Diallo trial was done by a jury and look how that turned out....
__________________
Law and Order: Gotham - “In the Criminal Justice System of Gotham City the people are represented by three separate, yet equally important groups. The police who investigate crime, the District Attorneys who prosecute the offenders, and the Batman. These are their stories.”
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04-27-2008, 06:03 PM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: May 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1856
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Jon...we are NOT talking about Cali, Virginia or any other place where this has happened...that is not because this isn't a problem else BUT.....
We are talking about NEW YORK CITY POLICE DEPARTMENT which has killed 5 UNARMED people in the last 10 years (twice using excessive force) with only ONE cop being convicted.
Obviously this is a problem IN NEW YORK CITY...not anywhere else....
Hell, I can tell you about the police shooting a man down at Lexington market in Baltimore City which I witnessed first hand..
http://www.workers.org/ww/1997/baltimore0904.html
But this is NOT where we are talking about!
__________________
Law and Order: Gotham - “In the Criminal Justice System of Gotham City the people are represented by three separate, yet equally important groups. The police who investigate crime, the District Attorneys who prosecute the offenders, and the Batman. These are their stories.”
Last edited by DaemonSeid; 04-27-2008 at 06:07 PM.
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04-27-2008, 06:48 PM
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Location: Land of Chaos
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An aside - one of the links is to an article that says Nicole married Sean Bell posthumously. Is that possible? I don't want to sound unfeeling, and to have your fiancé die on your wedding day - and in such a violent fashion - would be awful, but a posthumous marriage???
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04-27-2008, 06:54 PM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: May 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWTXBelle
An aside - one of the links is to an article that says Nicole married Sean Bell posthumously. Is that possible? I don't want to sound unfeeling, and to have your fiancé die on your wedding day - and in such a violent fashion - would be awful, but a posthumous marriage???
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No she legally changed her last name to his...what it would have been if they had married
__________________
Law and Order: Gotham - “In the Criminal Justice System of Gotham City the people are represented by three separate, yet equally important groups. The police who investigate crime, the District Attorneys who prosecute the offenders, and the Batman. These are their stories.”
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