NPHC Secretiveness, Insularity, Etc.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

So when these organizations decided to not be racist anymore, were BGLO's supposed to abandon their focus on their communities and go running to unify with predominately White GLO's? Yeah right. The bottom line is, the same way that cultural GLO's support each other while still serving their own communities is the same way that predominately White GLO's can support and find unity with ethnic GLO's. We don't have to be the SAME to support one another and this is the point that the guy who wrote the article is missing.

I was gonna say that, but I am tired of arguing with folks. Or rather, I don't see why I need present my Sorority or any in the D9 as legit. Hayle we now have 2 organizations that are 100 years old--well one is already and we are about to be next. You think that some slimy lame dude who writes some crap really gonna take us down?

Yes, there is a possibility of a new fraternity or sorority who wants to join the D9. And we have a process as to how that happens...

[Mochababy_989]

I wish I woulda found this thread b4. I couldve prevented myself from looking stupid.

[PhDiva]

Originally Posted by Wolfman

Thank you for your wisdom and discretion but a central fact that needs to be considered in this forum GC is this: it is NOT the "real world." Nor should it be. People come here evidently b/c they feel they can voice their opinions and interact with and ask questions of those people in organizations they don't have access to or may not feel comfortable in doing so in the "real world." That's the point--and the genius of GC. The fact that we have these tete-a-tetes should be seen as the fulfillment of the goal of a real type of community, where you have a real diversity of people according to Greek affiliation, ethnic/racial group, Greek councils, geographic location,vocation, age, life and Greek experience, political affiliation, sexual orientation and religious commitment. Basically,you don't find this type of interaction in the real world! It's refreshing and gives me hope! If it's messy and frustrating at times, then so be it. This is a healthy alternative to Greeks and non-Greeks being reinforced with all kinds of prejudiced and preconceived notions about other Greeks, and harboring ways of thinking that don't consider other's opinions and how other organzations operate,etc. b/c they are only interacting with like-minded people whom they feel comfortable with or have a particular Greek council affiliation with.

Until we can get ourselves together off line and accomplish this in the "real world," we should not try to enforce a type of uniformity of engagement on GC. Our experiences are different! If I would err, I would err on the side of generosity.

Sorry for the delayed response to this. Wolfman, I do understand and agree with your perspective about Greeks needing to be, if anything, more polite with non-Greeks so as to not generate more negative stereotypes about our organizations and the people who join them (I had a very negative experience with a NPHC sorority as an undergrad that *could* have made me scorn the
D9 and everything Greek related had I not grown up and figured out that one person doesn't represent the entire NPHC - so I do get the ultimate point of your post).

But I am speaking about social interaction skills that folks in general seem to be lacking. When you meet a new group of people, we all tend to (or at least should) listen and gauge the tone of the group, lest we might make a complete jackass out of ourselves in front of a new group. That was the point of my post. Beyond discretion is learning how to sit back and take it all in before you jump into a community. This is a basic communication skill that the internet has prevented alot of people from really learning and putting into practice.

[1908Revelations]

Originally Posted by Mochababy_989

I wish I woulda found this thread b4. I couldve prevented myself from looking stupid.

You live and you learn. Welcome to GC!

[nwu43]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

The idea of cultural/ethnic GLO's being against diversity is absurd, especially when we all know that the lack of diversity was initially caused by predominately White GLO's. What cracks me up is that some members of predominately White GLO's refuse to see their own organizations as contributing to the lack of diversity even today. So when these organizations decided to not be racist anymore, were BGLO's supposed to abandon their focus on their communities and go running to unify with predominately White GLO's? Yeah right. The bottom line is, the same way that cultural GLO's support each other while still serving their own communities is the same way that predominately White GLO's can support and find unity with ethnic GLO's. We don't have to be the SAME to support one another and this is the point that the guy who wrote the article is missing.

I think he was trying to imply that ethnic Greeks are exclusive and discriminatory but mainstream Greeks are not -anymore- (i.e. IFC and NPC Greeks only happen to be predominantly white nowadays because people of other races choose not to join and "mix" with them).

I pay articles like this one absolutely no mind.

Our unity rally following that article was quite impressive (we even had organizations from other schools join us), but actually many NPHC organizations did not even come out. We learned later that they didn't even think it was worth the bother, and it seems like you feel the same way? Out of curiosity (if it's true!), what do you think is the best way to respond to articles like that--? Or do you think they should simply be ignored?

Sorry, I know this isn't on topic, I just had to ask this question

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by nwu43

I think he was trying to imply that ethnic Greeks are exclusive and discriminatory but mainstream Greeks are not -anymore- (i.e. IFC and NPC Greeks only happen to be predominantly white nowadays because people of other races choose not to join and "mix" with them).

Our unity rally following that article was quite impressive (we even had organizations from other schools join us), but actually many NPHC organizations did not even come out. We learned later that they didn't even think it was worth the bother, and it seems like you feel the same way? Out of curiosity (if it's true!), what do you think is the best way to respond to articles like that--? Or do you think they should simply be ignored?

Sorry, I know this isn't on topic, I just had to ask this question

The thing is...if I thought this guy (and people like him) "truly" wanted to create an atmosphere of unity and diversity among all GLO's, I might be willing to try and see where he's coming from or at least I might try and help him to see why ethnic GLO's are so important to their communities today and yesterday. But most people with this view only want things to be their way or no way. They could really care less about greek diversity and supporting one another. How can you truly want diversity and unity among greeks when you say things like ethnic GLO's shouldn't exist? I would think that kind of talk would ostracize these groups even more and if this guy knew our history or anything significant about us, he would know that it's been 100 years and we aren't going anywhere. So the bottom line is that this guy and many like him are not very smart because how is it possible to live in a society such as America and not see her problems, no matter what race, religion, gender, etc. you are? To not understand how very important ethnic GLO's are to their communities is to live in a fantasy world where no one but people like yourself exists. So I think my fellow NPHC greeks especially know that this line of thinking is uneducated and they don't want to entertain it at all and I agree that these people should be ignored. Everyone is entitled to voice their opinions just as long as they don't invade private space. Now the guy may have had a better argument if he said that ALL greeks might benefit socially from diversifying their membership more without changing their focus. That might have made for a smarter argument that NPHC members might have participated in.

[Sugar08]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

So I think my fellow NPHC greeks especially know that this line of thinking is uneducated and they don't want to entertain it at all. Now the guy may have had a better argument if he said that ALL greeks might benefit socially from diversifying their membership more without changing their focus. That might have made for a smarter argument that NPHC members might have participated in.

I just wanted to chime in to say that that's pretty much spot on, Rhoyal.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by nwu43

Our unity rally following that article was quite impressive (we even had organizations from other schools join us), but actually many NPHC organizations did not even come out. We learned later that they didn't even think it was worth the bother, and it seems like you feel the same way? Out of curiosity (if it's true!), what do you think is the best way to respond to articles like that--? Or do you think they should simply be ignored?

Sorry, I know this isn't on topic, I just had to ask this question

Acculturation is different from assimilation... And desegregation is different from integration...

If I thought that a "unity rally" really would change people's hearts, I would attend with full support. But how many NPHC organization were verbally requested to attend during the planning stages of the rally? How many of its members were requested to speak? What solutions are available to make the difference?

More focus groups and talk therapy to discuss what is going on? More research and statistics that say where each of us lie on some artificial scale that only tells us that the playing field where we reside is uneven?

What is there to discuss? We have been marching and singing "We shall overcome" for years and still we have obliteration of affirmative action in all universities and colleges nationwide and an end to all desegregation in public schools.

And you want US, those who are part of the NPHC, that were part of the civil rights movement who either fought to rode the bus and were affirmatively acted on to participate in a rally we deem as BS?

You aren't interested in changing until your actions say so...

[arizona13]

wow...

[nwu43]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

Acculturation is different from assimilation... And desegregation is different from integration...

If I thought that a "unity rally" really would change people's hearts, I would attend with full support. But how many NPHC organization were verbally requested to attend during the planning stages of the rally? How many of its members were requested to speak? What solutions are available to make the difference?

More focus groups and talk therapy to discuss what is going on? More research and statistics that say where each of us lie on the artificial scale on which unleveled playing field we reside?

That is pointless to most of us. We have been marching and singing "We shall overcome" for years and still we have obliteration of affirmative action in all universities and colleges nationwide as well as now degregation mandates in public schools.

And you want US, those who are part of the NPHC, that were part of the civil rights movement to fighting for busing and affirmative action to participate in a rally we deem as BS?

You aren't interested in changing until your actions say so...

No no no this isn't about "you guys" and "us" at all! The unity rally was jointly organized by NPHC and MGC Greeks (that's what I meant by "our" unity rally), and in fact Phi Beta Sigma and Zeta Phi Beta probably took on the most active role. Please don't think I was trying to call you guys out, if that's what you were thinking! It just happened to be that not all NPHC organizations felt that protesting by rally was the best idea, and some decided that it was simply a waste of time. And that's why I'm asking about it here because I want to know what you think is the better way to deal with this type of stuff.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by nwu43

No no no this isn't about "you guys" and "us" at all! The unity rally was jointly organized by NPHC and MGC Greeks (that's what I meant by "our" unity rally), and in fact Phi Beta Sigma and Zeta Phi Beta probably took on the most active role. Please don't think I was trying to call you guys out, if that's what you were thinking! It just happened to be that not all NPHC organizations felt that protesting by rally was the best idea, and some decided that it was simply a waste of time. And that's why I'm asking about it here because I want to know what you think is the better way to deal with this type of stuff.

I can only give you my personal opinion not what my Sorority says because I am not a part of the governing body that oversees my entire organization...

Firstly, all things MUST be scheduled accordingly with the Graduate Advisors. Your school may not have an NPHC Graduate Advisory Council. My graduate school did.

Secondly, what does this have to with my Sorority's International Program Platforms: Extraordinary Service Programs? There are 5 of them, 1 that the undergraduates are required to do as chapters that deals with technology, computers and the less fortunate.

The issue is you have to EXPLAIN that to the graduate advisor(s) and all they see if they are working professionals is GRADES, GPA and UNITS and if they upholding their commitments to my Sorority...

Also, in our International bylaws and as dictated by our 501c3 status we are to remain apolitical. Basically, saying if we are not serving, we cannot support it...

Now, I can go out there and rally and protest, but I am NOT allowed to do it in my Sorority's paraphrenalia that do not directly support an International Program... I am going at "Monet"--NOT Dr. AKA_Monet...

No matter who I think I am being independent, I STILL represent myself, my family, my church and my Sorority--HAYLE my Race for that matter. ALWAYS!!! So, I don't have to wear paraphrenalia, I still am judged by what I do...

That is OUR reality. Some folks may choose to ignore it. I do not have that luxury...

One way to do it differently is cities like to have health runs/walks or physical activities. I would have incorporated that theme into my rally, then I would invite various speakers to focus on the rally topic as it relates to health. Moreover, I would have gotten a major health society or organization to support my efforts and all proceeds would have gone to the children. It is a win-win situation and gets people out exercising... Like the American Cancer, American Heart Assn, or Susan G. Komen Affiliate... The issue with Health in an of itself is a political one of ACCESS... Health DISPARITIES break the 1965 Civil Rights Act. When poor mothers and people are not healed, it affects the upbringing of children to the loss of intellectual assets to this country. If you had a "silent protest" that had poster boards/signs with heinous stats, most of those you all encountered who mocked you all might have looked silly.

The alternative is to have plain fun. Have a block party with various kinds of music and food. Have 2-3 top acts during nighttime. A festival of sorts. But participation is not a big thing these days with young people... I dunno why? The expectation that others will organize?

But plainly protesting poor conditions without professional consultations? Did you achieve your objective(s)?

[mccoyred]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

Acculturation is different from assimilation... And desegregation is different from integration...

This bears repeating again and again... Until enough people get 'it' the arguments will always be circular.

[onetruediva1913]

Originally Posted by Siggy_lxvi

In the thread on the Iota chapter pres getting arrested:





I've seen this sort of attitude a lot from members of NPHC GLOs, and it kinda bugs me. It seems like the NPHC refuses to talk about itself and the way they do things.

Please note, I'm not ragging on any organization, I'm honestly curious as to WHY.

Examples of the secretiveness and insularity:

Getting snippy (as above) when people post about RM issues or just issues that are going to cause PR problems for greeks in general when those issues involve a member of an NPHC fraternity or sorority.

Refusing to talk about how to join an NPHC org. I mean, if someone comes on and asks how to go about joining their local XYZ chapter, and the answer is: fill out the application at www.xyz.org/join/app.pdf and turn it in to your local president who should be listed at www.xyz.org/chapters/presidents.html, why don't they just say that? or even just say go to www.xyz.org, click join, and follow the directions there. Seriously, even joining the masons, those bastions of secrecy and cloak-and-dagger conspiracies, is as simple as going up to a mason and saying, "Hi! How can I join the masons?" NPC and NIC orgs make it extremely clear how to join: Go through formal rush, or make friends with a bunch of group members during informal rush, if we like you, we'll take you.

Now, normally I find conspiracy theories silly and far-fetched, but all this gives me just the slightest suspicion that maybe there is some sinister purpose behind certain organizations.

I'm not trolling here, I'm honestly curious for the reason behind all the secrecy, and I'm sure others are, as well.

This was a common argument that NPHC,PHC and IFC had regulary at my school when I was in undergrad. I went to predominately white school therefore the black population was small yet we had 8 out of the 9 chapters of NPHC on yard. All of us were literally friends before we got in so it was like NPHC against the world. The answer to your question is that NPHC has to protect NPHC so therefore we do things differently. If other greeks could just accept this and stop trying to get us to explain and justify why we do things the way we do it the world would be a much better place!