"The New Wife" according to the New York Post

[mu_agd]

Originally posted by Taualumna
But don't you think that there are families that wonder why their 40something son isn't married yet? Or some families wondering why their 21 year old son has never had a girlfriend? Guys don't have the same pressure because, well, guys don't get pregnant.

in my opinion, there is something wrong with those families. what one person chooses to do is no one elses business, especially about marriage and children. not everyone is made to, or wants to, get married and have kids. my uncle, for one, was never married, he dated but he just didn't want to be married. did i look down on him or think there was something wrong with him? hell no, he was my uncle and i loved him because he was my uncle regardless of what his choice was. once again, this goes back to people needing to grow a pair and stand up for what their choice is.

[Peaches-n-Cream]

Originally posted by Taualumna
But don't you think that there are families that wonder why their 40something son isn't married yet? Or some families wondering why their 21 year old son has never had a girlfriend? Guys don't have the same pressure because, well, guys don't get pregnant.

Maybe they are gay. *shrug* I think that this thread has gotten off the intended topic so I'll attempt to get it back on track.

I am a graduate of a private school in NYC. It was not a 'finishing school,' but an educational institution. A part of the education including becoming a well-rounded person which included attending Broadway plays and musicals, dining in the finer restaurants in Manhattan, going to museums, visiting embassies, meeting ambassadors and politicians, traveling, and learning how to speak English well and properly. We did not have etiquette lessons per se, but we were instructed to be on our best behavior in appropriate clothing. I remember the French club had our annual lunch at Le Perigord. One of the students was not on his best behavior and was not allowed to attend the next year. The teacher made students essentially audition to attend future luncheons. We attended a play or musical each semester. This was in addition to the rigorous academic standards we had to meet. My school was not as expensive or as exclusive as many of the schools in Manhattan, but it is well regarded by educators. In fact, many of the students were children of public school teachers as well as politicians and people who struggled to pay tuition. The expectation was that we would attend college. In my six years there, only one student did not go on to college since she got married instead.

In all of my life, I have only encountered that one girl from high school who wanted to just get married. It is very rare to meet someone like that in New York City. I have met many women who hit a certain ageor stage in their lives and want to settle down, or they meet someone, fall in love, and get married. Most of my friends are educated and continue their careers after they become mothers because it is financially necessary for them to do so. This is an expensive city. As far as I know, they and their husbands don't earn $800,000 or anything close to that. For the most part, my friends are middle class. They have some good years and some years were they struggle. The older we get the more we have. Some of my friends who are mothers would like to stay home, but they cannot afford to do so.

There are as many different stories as there are people on this planet. Women and men feel pressure from their families, culture, society, faith, their circle of friends, and themselves to accomplish certain things at certain points in their lives. Not everyone can fulfill these expectation. Not everyone wants to. I think the key is respecting the right for people to choose the life that is right for them. Not everyone wants to get married or have children. Not everyone wants to juggle a career and motherhood. There is nothing wrong with that. I heard Maria Shriver say, "You can have it all, just not at the same time." I agree with that. Decide what life you want, be flexible, and don't judge other people for their choices.

[rho4life]

Originally posted by Taualumna
But don't you think that there are families that wonder why their 40something son isn't married yet? Or some families wondering why their 21 year old son has never had a girlfriend? Guys don't have the same pressure because, well, guys don't get pregnant.

Pressuring a 40 yr old and a 21 yr old are totally different.

And some unmarried 40something men probably haven't told their families they are gay.

But the fact remains that if you ask a childless by choice person who is 30 how often they feel pressured to have kids, I will bet that the men do not feel pressured or get asked as much as the women. Furthermore, pressure from you family is one thing. My family, on the whole, respects my decidion not to procreate.

More specifically, I find that there is more pressure on professional women to breed than there is on their male peers [ie same age, education, profession].


While it's great that women have so many options available to them today, it sucks that many women feel caught between a rock and a hard place. No matter how women decide to raise their children, someone will be wagging their fingers and saying they did it wrong.

On a side note, another aspect of the problem is that kids today are way HYPER-adultized. A ten yr old should NOT need a palm pilot to schedule their lives. One afterschool activity is great, teaches responsiblity and time manaement. However, when I hear that there are kids w/ 4 different afterschool activitiets and the parents are contstantly shuttling them around to different events, I wonder when the kids will be able to enjoy being kids. Also, I have met some single moms who increase the stresses in their lives by setting insane Martha Stewart-esque goals for themselves.

[Taualumna]

Originally posted by rho4life


But the fact remains that if you ask a childless by choice person who is 30 how often they feel pressured to have kids, I will bet that the men do not feel pressured or get asked as much as the women. Furthermore, pressure from you family is one thing. My family, on the whole, respects my decidion not to procreate.

.

Women have that old "biological clock" thing to worry about. Guys can get women pregnant (with the help of viagra) when they're in their 60s or even older (though their sperm count does go down). The reason why some people ask "childless by choice" women when they're having a baby is because you never know when someone's going to change her mind. She may not want to have a baby at 30, but what if she decides that she does at 38, but is having trouble conceiving?

[Peaches-n-Cream]

I guess my biological clock is ticking, and people don't ask me when will I have a baby. I personally find that question to be extremely rude. Most of the people in my life are polite. Why is a women's reproductive ability anyone's business?

[tunatartare]

</hijack> sorry to hijack this thread for a minute, but I feel like I have to. Taualumna, I find that your comments about immigrants and the relationships between immigrant parents and their children are a little off- color. I come from a family of immigrants. My family moved here from Russia when I was 7 and a half. We literally had $2 to our name. I went to private schools for 8 years of my life and am in a private college now. Everything that I have, my parents had to work hard for. They never told me that I had to go out and go to a certain school and major in a certain field so that I could get a high-paying job and support them. The school I go to, is not the one that they would have wanted me to go, but they're fine with my choice. They always ask me if I'm happy with my major and if I want to switch it to something that interests me more. The reason I'm saying this is because I feel like you don't fully understand the dynamic of an immigrant family in America. We don't all tell our kids how they should live their lives. </end hijack>

[Taualumna]

Originally posted by DaisyKLP
</hijack> sorry to hijack this thread for a minute, but I feel like I have to. Taualumna, I find that your comments about immigrants and the relationships between immigrant parents and their children are a little off- color. I come from a family of immigrants. My family moved here from Russia when I was 7 and a half. We literally had $2 to our name. I went to private schools for 8 years of my life and am in a private college now. Everything that I have, my parents had to work hard for. They never told me that I had to go out and go to a certain school and major in a certain field so that I could get a high-paying job and support them. The school I go to, is not the one that they would have wanted me to go, but they're fine with my choice. They always ask me if I'm happy with my major and if I want to switch it to something that interests me more. The reason I'm saying this is because I feel like you don't fully understand the dynamic of an immigrant family in America. We don't all tell our kids how they should live their lives. </end hijack>

Daisy,

YOUR immigrant parents may not have told you what to study or do, but MANY OTHERS do so. I know this from personal experience. My second cousin's mother practically forced her into engineering. A guy I knew when I was a kid had a choice of schools and majors, but there were certain majors that he wasn't supposed to touch. Including one or two that he may very well have wanted to take! I have relatives who have commented on my history major as well. Maybe it's different for Russian families, but the pressure to study certain subjects is certainly there in Asian (particularily Chinese) families. I know that it is the case for some Jewish families too.

[tunatartare]

Originally posted by Taualumna
Maybe it's different for Russian families, but the pressure to study certain subjects is certainly there in Asian (particularily Chinese) families. I know that it is the case for some Jewish families too.

I'm Jewish too, so what's your point?

[Taualumna]

Originally posted by DaisyKLP
I'm Jewish too, so what's your point?

That it isn't just an "Asian Thing".

[tunatartare]

Never said it was. I just said that it wasn't necessarily a Jewish thing, cuz I'm Jewish and it's not like that for me or any of the Jewish immigrants, or any other immigrants for that matter, that I know. And trust me, I know a lot.

[Taualumna]

Originally posted by DaisyKLP
Never said it was. I just said that it wasn't necessarily a Jewish thing, cuz I'm Jewish and it's not like that for me or any of the Jewish immigrants, or any other immigrants for that matter, that I know. And trust me, I know a lot.

Notice that I did say SOME

[AXO_MOM_3]

Originally posted by Peaches-n-Cream

There are as many different stories as there are people on this planet. Women and men feel pressure from their families, culture, society, faith, their circle of friends, and themselves to accomplish certain things at certain points in their lives. Not everyone can fulfill these expectation. Not everyone wants to. I think the key is respecting the right for people to choose the life that is right for them. Not everyone wants to get married or have children. Not everyone wants to juggle a career and motherhood. There is nothing wrong with that. I heard Maria Shriver say, "You can have it all, just not at the same time." I agree with that. Decide what life you want, be flexible, and don't judge other people for their choices.

Well said! And on that note - it seems there is some major cultural generalizations going on in this thread. What happens to one person of a culture cannot be applied to everyone in that culture. The tradition of the immigrants, race or faith cultures (or anyone else for that matter) in my neck of the woods may look totally different in someone elses. Same kind of people, but different traditions. Perhaps this should be discussed in another thread.

Somewhere back there someone mentioned that kids are shuttled from activity to activity. This occurs for both SAH and working moms. I know some people that have the kids scheduled from the time they get up until the time they go to bed. Music, art, girl scouts, dance, gymnastics, soccer - the list goes on and on. There is so much more available to children now. During the summer, I could have them in a camp every week - possibly two or three per week so much is offered here. I choose not to do that because I personally think children need some down time.

I allow my children to choose two activities per year - currently we are doing cheerleading and girl scouts. My two older girls are in the same activities, same time. I can see a time though when they will all have different interests, and different time frames. That would be three children with two things per week. Lots of time in the car. Hopefully as time progresses, they will find something they truly love and stay with that activity. I feel I should give them an opportunity to explore their interests. I won't deny them the chance to be involved with something they truly want even if it means I'm driving all over the place! I'd like to hear from the Carnation nation about how she does it all with her numerous young ones!

[aggieAXO]

I have no plans to have children but if I do I want the man to stay at home. I would go crazy! I will have a nanny also.
I had one and loved it .

My mother stayed at home until I was 13-14 yrs old-that is when my parents got divorced. She had to go and get a job to support us. When she retired her social security was crap b/c she did not work for so many years. IMO if you are going to stay at home that is great but make sure you have a great retirement account that is yours and only yours. You never know if your marriage will last and if you did not work you won't get much social security b/c you did not pay in. Just my .02$

[wrigley]

Okay now for the musical portion of "The New Wife" thread

This whole discussion reminds me of the song by Mary Chapin Carpenter. "He thinks he'll keep her".

She makes his coffee, she makes his bed
She does the laundry, she keeps him fed
When she was twenty-one she wore her mother's lace
She said "forever" with a smile upon her face
She does the car-pool, she PTAs
Doctors and dentists, she drives all day
When she was twenty-nine she delivered number three
And every Christmas card showed a perfect family
Everything runs right on time, years of practice and design
Spit and polish till it shines. He thinks he'll keep her
Everything is so benign, safest place you'll ever find
God forbid you change your mind. He thinks he'll keep her
She packs his suitcase, she sits and waits
With no expression upon her face
When she was thirty-six she met him at their door
She said I'm sorry, I don't love you anymore
Everything runs right on time, years of practice and design
Spit and polish till it shines. He thinks he'll keep her
Everything is so benign, safest place you'll ever find
God forbid you change your mind. He thinks he'll keep her
For fifteen years she had a job and not one raise in pay
Now she's in the typing pool at minimum wage
Everything runs right on time, years of practice and design
Spit and polish till it shines. He thinks he'll keep her
Everything is so benign, safest place you'll ever find
At least until you change your mind. He thinks he'll keep her

[justamom]

AXO_MOM_3 You beat me to the punch, I was going to quote Peaches-n-cream's same passage!