Five Towson Sororities on Probation (Alcohol)

[ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

The reason they think the probation is harsh (social probation until Spring Break 08 and University probation until fall 2008) is that the error in judgement was committed by recruitment couselors who were not in contact with the sororities who had counseled their members that there would be no drinking allowed on bid day. The Panhellenic advisor apparently failed to enforce this policy. The women of the chapter did not drink on bid day but cannot have any socials and are on social probation for nearly the entire school year after doing nothing wrong. Social probation for the women caught drinking would be appropriate. Social probation for chapters who followed the rules except for their members out of their reach is inappropriate. Also, three chapters had drinking recruitment counselor sisters but no harsh probation...not sure how that is fair either.

Obviously some of these chapters are guilty of a little more than having recruitment counselors drink.

NPC rush IS DRY. That means no drinking, to make sure it's clear. Every member of an NPC sorority has the responsibility to know and follow recruitment rules. If no copies were given to the chapter, their Recruitment officer should have marched to the Panhellenic adviser's office and gotten a copy to distribute to members. There's no excuses on that one.

While some responsibility definitely does rest on the adviser's shoulders, it ultimately falls on the shoulders of the girls who actually did this. We're in college, we're old enough to use common sense. Tradition or not, it's not NPC-legal. And of ALL people, the recruitment counselors should know EVERY recruitment rule way before it ever starts.

I do have to say it's pretty ridiculous that these girls weren't sent home. If we (recruitment team) ever show up to an official event (including the men's fraternity parties, as according to IFC, they are also dry parties) having had a drop, we're kicked off of the team, no questions asked.

I realize it's really hard to control or police every member of a chapter when they're out on their own time, but it is the chapter's responsibility to police them at official events, when there are tons of sisters to watch out for each other. There's just really no excuse for any of this. If it's an official rush event, including an official Bid Day activity (from running to whatever official event the chapter holds), it has to be dry.

And I have to say I am not very sympathetic at all to this whining about the punishment. I know every campus has different attitudes towards alcohol, but on mine if our chapters were pulling this...stuff...our punishments would be a lot more harsh.

[ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl]

Originally Posted by ihatesquirrels

a sorority on this campus who had an unsuccessful rush and is jealous of all the other sororities because they are essentially the worst chapter. they targeted one chapter in particular and their advisor took pictures of them drinking in the parking garage, in the union, and on the field. this caused the tu administration to further look into the situation, and they found more pictures on facebook from four of the other chapters.

instead of focusing their energy trying to make their own chapter better and focus on how to recruit better, they choose to do this. oh well.

hmmm... i wonder why no one wants to join their sorority...

If this immature attitude is representative of YOUR chapter, I wouldn't hold it in high regard at all.

It's time to learn about personal responsibility. If my chapter sisters do something WRONG during recruitment and another sorority turns my chapter in, you'd better believe it's my own sisters that I will be angry at for ruining things for me, not whoever caught them doing it. It's their responsibility to make smart choices, and even though everyone messes up sometimes, BLATANTLY stupid stuff doesn't get much sympathy for me, whether it's myself that did it or my friends. That's just part of trying to grow up and act like an adult.

I have to point this out as well. If one chapter turns another in, doesn't that tell you something? Which chapter wasn't participating in the rule breaking...

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl

I have to point this out as well. If one chapter turns another in, doesn't that tell you something? Which chapter wasn't participating in the rule breaking...

Don't be so sure! I have it on good authority that EVERY chapter had Rho Chi members drunk on bid day. I agree that recruitment is a dry event. The girls have learned their lessons...I hope. I think that you are overly harsh considering you experienced a well run system that enforces its rules. Towson is not such a campus. I hope that none of this happens again, but I have to tell you that it sounds pretty ingrained as a "tradition" and to keep the problems at bay, they'll need a much stronger panhellenic advisor. As for being mad at a sister who ruined everything for the rest of the group, I know the AOII perpetrator personally. She is an upstanding, serious girl who has very high grades in a very difficult major. She is the last person you'd expect to be involved in such an event. She doesn't make any excuses and will tell anyone who asks that it was a serious lapse in judgement. Now...can we let this discussion die already!?

[ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Don't be so sure! I have it on good authority that EVERY chapter had Rho Chi members drunk on bid day. I agree that recruitment is a dry event. The girls have learned their lessons...I hope. I think that you are overly harsh considering you experienced a well run system that enforces its rules. Towson is not such a campus. I hope that none of this happens again, but I have to tell you that it sounds pretty ingrained as a "tradition" and to keep the problems at bay, they'll need a much stronger panhellenic advisor. As for being mad at a sister who ruined everything for the rest of the group, I know the AOII perpetrator personally. She is an upstanding, serious girl who has very high grades in a very difficult major. She is the last person you'd expect to be involved in such an event. She doesn't make any excuses and will tell anyone who asks that it was a serious lapse in judgement. Now...can we let this discussion die already!?

I don't doubt all of the recruitment counselors participated, but some chapters apparently had more than that going on. So I do think it's likely that the one turning them in wasn't the one to be adding a little something to the recruitment counselor's misdeeds.

I don't think I'm being harsh at all. Weak system or not, reading the recruitment rules is something all recruitment counselors should do. They are RECRUITMENT COUNSELORS. They should know the rules. This includes a ban on alcohol. And if they choose to break the rules, then that has nothing to do with having a weak system...that's just bad judgment. Just because you don't get caught doesn't mean it isn't wrong. Most of us probably speed, or drank underage at least once, or maybe cheated on a quiz in high school. But if we got caught that doesn't mean we don't deserve to be punished.

They should be mad at the sister. At least she has the moral fortitude to realize that and take responsibility for her actions. That means she's probably a smart girl and won't do something like that again. Some people don't have her ability to learn from their mistakes because they won't accept responsibility like she did.

[Elephant Walk]

Last year a Rho Chi got caught for being ridiculously drunk by IFC.

Now he's the head justice of j-board.

I love Arkansas.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl

I don't doubt all of the recruitment counselors participated, but some chapters apparently had more than that going on. So I do think it's likely that the one turning them in wasn't the one to be adding a little something to the recruitment counselor's misdeeds.

I don't think I'm being harsh at all. Weak system or not, reading the recruitment rules is something all recruitment counselors should do. They are RECRUITMENT COUNSELORS. They should know the rules. This includes a ban on alcohol. And if they choose to break the rules, then that has nothing to do with having a weak system...that's just bad judgment. Just because you don't get caught doesn't mean it isn't wrong. Most of us probably speed, or drank underage at least once, or maybe cheated on a quiz in high school. But if we got caught that doesn't mean we don't deserve to be punished.

They should be mad at the sister. At least she has the moral fortitude to realize that and take responsibility for her actions. That means she's probably a smart girl and won't do something like that again. Some people don't have her ability to learn from their mistakes because they won't accept responsibility like she did.

I don't disagree with any of this...in a perfect world. Recruitment counselors at Towson apparently didn't know the rules. Last time I checked, most college students aren't that responsible without a good example showing them the right way. Many of these chapters have no alumnae interaction and do whatever feels right to them whether or not it abides by panhellenic rules. Yes, some chapters did have more involvement with drinking than others (one chapter actually), but the vast majority were behaving themselves as needed. I would love to say that these Rho Chis were terrible girls who just wanted to flaunt the rules, but it's not the case. No one has ever laid down the law on this campus, so I can't entirely fault the women from continuing behaviour that was overlooked by the administration for years. Unfortunately, these girls get to pay the price when others got away with it. If any of them complain, they know that what they did was wrong and that they brought it upon themselves. However, there were very few women at fault and a whole load of innocent girls, including the NMs. No one is saying that the women involved shouldn't be held responsible. They were. The point is that none of this occurred in a vacuum. And like elephantwalks story, many of the women who were involved but didn't get in trouble got elected to panhellenic executive board positions in December. Hmmm....I wonder if they'll continue to turn a blind eye to the problem?

[SWTXBelle]

Surely, SURELY, even those involved now see why it must change. ???

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Surely, SURELY, even those involved now see why it must change. ???

I sure HOPE so! Even now, however, the advisor is very weak and there is little patrolling of what most chapters are doing. The advisors of AOII are working to change the practices of our chapter, but not all chapters are lucky enough to get that kind of support. I guess we'll see what happens in the fall.

[ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

I don't disagree with any of this...in a perfect world. Recruitment counselors at Towson apparently didn't know the rules. Last time I checked, most college students aren't that responsible without a good example showing them the right way. Many of these chapters have no alumnae interaction and do whatever feels right to them whether or not it abides by panhellenic rules. Yes, some chapters did have more involvement with drinking than others (one chapter actually), but the vast majority were behaving themselves as needed. I would love to say that these Rho Chis were terrible girls who just wanted to flaunt the rules, but it's not the case. No one has ever laid down the law on this campus, so I can't entirely fault the women from continuing behaviour that was overlooked by the administration for years. Unfortunately, these girls get to pay the price when others got away with it. If any of them complain, they know that what they did was wrong and that they brought it upon themselves. However, there were very few women at fault and a whole load of innocent girls, including the NMs. No one is saying that the women involved shouldn't be held responsible. They were. The point is that none of this occurred in a vacuum. And like elephantwalks story, many of the women who were involved but didn't get in trouble got elected to panhellenic executive board positions in December. Hmmm....I wonder if they'll continue to turn a blind eye to the problem?

In college you're old enough to know you have to follow rules/laws or take responsibility for the consequences when you do not. And it's best to follow the rules in the first place. Regardless there is no excuse for the recruitment counselors of all people not knowing the rules.

I never said they were terrible people. There made a terrible decision.

I just have little sympathy. Any time a sorority breaks recruitment rules the whole chapter suffers. You hope your sisters care about themselves and you enough to not risk the whole chapter, but let's face it, sometimes people do dumb things. And that's just the way it is. The whole chapter suffers.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl

I don't think I'm being harsh at all. Weak system or not, reading the recruitment rules is something all recruitment counselors should do. They are RECRUITMENT COUNSELORS. They should know the rules.

Did you see the post in the thread that pointed out there were 54 recruitment counselors - for a rush that consisted of 275 PNMs - because of a rule in Towson's Panhel constitution?

Just pointing out that being a Rho Chi here is not the elite or highly vetted position here that it is at many schools.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by greekandproud

I think the key word here is ADVISER. Yes, the adviser is part of the sorority and represents the organization, and a sorority should take responsibility for the actions their organization commit. However, this was a huge, monumental stance that the collegiate members had no say in. This was something that would effect the sisters and not the advisers. While their chapter adviser felt it was necessary, this was something that should have been cleared with the chapter, and after talking to some of the sisters of the "rat" sorority, it is clear to me that they had no idea what was going on or what happened. The adviser should have gone to the other chapter advisers first, and discussed the matter with the whole exec board to let them decide what should have been done.

I think you have a great point - especially if, as has been reported, all the sororities had members who were Rho Chis and drinking. When the one who blows the whistle gets a lesser penalty, even if they did the same thing, it isn't going to go over well.

If you're an advisor, you should be looking at the state of the whole Greek system, not just your chapter. If she thought this practice was dangerous for her girls, it is dangerous for all the other sororities also.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by greekandproud

There has been a blatant disregard for the rules of recruitment on this campus. All Rec Chairs are given a copy of Towson's Rush rules and they are then take those rules to their chapters and make sure everyone understands. It plainly states that Rush is Dry. The Rho Chis are told not to drink, they KNOW they are not supposed to drink. The Rho Chi's form my chapter told me they were told no tot drink at training. Those who are guilty they knew the where wrong, and they are mad they finally got caught. However, our Rho Chi's also mentioned that the training was a joke and not much was accomplished.

Again, this unsatisfactory training just shows that the PanHel at Towson is extremely weak and in need of a strong, RESPONSIBLY leader. The fact that this kind of tradition had gone on for this long is sad. And if you really need to drink, at least be smart about it. Holding beer cans while on the field at bid day just isn't a smart move.


Many of the greeks here were furious with the chapter that was rumored to be the "rat". Everyone ranted about how an adviser turned in pictures and got everyone in trouble. I think the key word here is ADVISER. Yes, the adviser is part of the sorority and represents the organization, and a sorority should take responsibility for the actions their organization commit. However, this was a huge, monumental stance that the collegiate members had no say in. This was something that would effect the sisters and not the advisers. While their chapter adviser felt it was necessary, this was something that should have been cleared with the chapter, and after talking to some of the sisters of the "rat" sorority, it is clear to me that they had no idea what was going on or what happened. The adviser should have gone to the other chapter advisers first, and discussed the matter with the whole exec board to let them decide what should have been done. The collegiate sisters weren't even paying attention to the alcohol on bid day. All the sisters were greeting their new pledge class which i have heard was the biggest they had in years. They didn't have time to worry about who was breaking what rule.

I have been saying the whole time that there is a problem with the Panhellenic system at Towson. There is a poor example passed down from year to year and condoned by the panhellenic adviser.

As for the comments about the "rat" adviser....it's her job to report these actions. She has a responsibility to act. This does not include discussing it with the collegiate members and letting this behavior go on! You say you want things to change...it takes someone acting instead of wishing to actually make changes.

"Something of Value," a Panhellenic program, came to Towson and reviewed what was going on. There recommendations should be inacted in full, but I know they wont.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

As for the comments about the "rat" adviser....it's her job to report these actions. She has a responsibility to act. This does not include discussing it with the collegiate members and letting this behavior go on! You say you want things to change...it takes someone acting instead of wishing to actually make changes.

I think what g & p meant was that knowing the climate of the campus, the advisor should have given the chapter a heads up and let them know she was reporting it, so they would be more prepared for any backlash that came their way. (The behavior - drinking at bid day - was already over & done with.) From his/her post, it sounds like the collegians were getting ragged on and they didn't even know why. I don't think g & p meant the advisor shouldn't have reported it.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by greekandproud

What i understood from the report of that program, Towson is doing well and we need more panhel joint events...even tho all the presidents said that we were swamped with mandatory panhel events with extremely short notice and getting fined when we can't produce the girls. There was no mention of the problems with hazing or drinking. There were SMALL tid bits about the lack of knowledge about Recruitment rules, but not enough to actually have the Greek Advisor think about doing anything. Not enough to meet what i thought was necessary. It is obvious that Recruitment here needs help if we have 54 Rho Chis for 270-something rushees.

However, i could be slightly confused about the actual findings of the report because the results were not ever fully made clear to me.

And i agree with you Angel, nothing will probably be done until someone steps it up like the advisor who reported all the bid day drama.

Actually, the Something of Value report did have quite a few recommendations regarding the drinking culture and hazing on campus. If you didn't get the full report (I just read it today!) PM me and I'll send it to you.

[acuisla]

Originally Posted by greekandproud

Yes, the adviser is part of the sorority and represents the organization, and a sorority should take responsibility for the actions their organization commit. However, this was a huge, monumental stance that the collegiate members had no say in. This was something that would effect the sisters and not the advisers. While their chapter adviser felt it was necessary, this was something that should have been cleared with the chapter, and after talking to some of the sisters of the "rat" sorority, it is clear to me that they had no idea what was going on or what happened. The adviser should have gone to the other chapter advisers first, and discussed the matter with the whole exec board to let them decide what should have been done.

Slight hijack, but not enough to actually start another thread....
I have a question for everyone....what if the chapter adviser had talked with the chapter about this, and they ignored her? Isn't it her responsibility to report it anyway?