Depledging a "loser" sorority?

[33girl]

Originally posted by kddani
IYou said you had a boyfriend, so why does it matter if you mix with the "top" fraternities? Now i'm starting to understand why he may not be supportive of you in this endeavor- if you just care about mixing with the boys.

OOOOOOH good call Ms. Legal Eagle.

and amazinglagirl, your comment on buying friends is the best ever.

[sugar and spice]

I think it's hilarious that people keep whining about how non-Greeks think we're buying friends: "We're not paying for friends. We're paying for the increased social opportunities, the sisterhood events, and the upkeep of the house." Which is a all well and good until you take into account the fact that these same people will get upset when people join sororities for any reason other than "friendship."

GLOs are -- from a financial standpoint -- a business, just like anything else. If you're charging a thousand bucks a semester for someone to be in your organization, and you're NOT charging them for the friendships . . . then what are you charging them for? Primarily the social opportunities. And if you're not getting the social opportunities, or not 1000 dollars worth of social opportunities . . . then I don't think it's out of line to quit.

I'm not sure how you can argue that "Joining a sorority is only about lifelong friendship, not reputation, not parties!" but that tune changes quite a bit when it comes to paying the bills.

[valkyrie]

Originally posted by sugar and spice
I think it's hilarious that people keep whining about how non-Greeks think we're buying friends: "We're not paying for friends. We're paying for the increased social opportunities, the sisterhood events, and the upkeep of the house." Which is a all well and good until you take into account the fact that these same people will get upset when people join sororities for any reason other than "friendship."

GLOs are -- from a financial standpoint -- a business, just like anything else. If you're charging a thousand bucks a semester for someone to be in your organization, and you're NOT charging them for the friendships . . . then what are you charging them for? Primarily the social opportunities. And if you're not getting the social opportunities, or not 1000 dollars worth of social opportunities . . . then I don't think it's out of line to quit.

I'm not sure how you can argue that "Joining a sorority is only about lifelong friendship, not reputation, not parties!" but that tune changes quite a bit when it comes to paying the bills.

All good points.

I don't get the hostility, either, and I think it does qualify as hostility. Here we have someone who is presumaby coming to GC and being really honest about something that is troubling her. I would imagine that it is VERY, very common for someone to end up in a house and later be dissatisfied or bothered for one reason or another -- even if she's a sophomore.

Why can't she come here and talk honestly about it without being attacked? Frankly, it sounds like people are defensive.

[PM_Mama00]

Anyone else starting to think that Crunchies is just another GCer that felt it was getting boring and decided to stir shit up?

[crunchies]

Thank you sugar and spice!

[KSUViolet06]

Ok, so go ahead and depledge. You are wasting a spot for someone else. End of thread.

[IvySpice]

I agree with Sugar and Spice. When you're shelling out thousands of dollars for ANY product, it's very foolish not to think about whether you're getting your money's worth. I'm sure everyone at GC agrees that you can make lots of wonderful lifelong friends at college without being Greek. So why pay? Because the organization offers a lot more than simple friendship, like a broad social network, lots of fun events, and extensive programming that enriches your college experience. And if it isn't doing that in this case -- well, maybe it's a poor investment. It's not only reasonable but wise to give that subject serious thought.

Furthermore, when all the people you knew and liked leave an organization, that creates a legitimate crisis whether the organization is a sorority, a sports team, a choir, or even (in my case) a law firm. It's not just succumbing to peer pressure if you think about leaving, too -- it's a reflection of the fact that personal relationships aren't transferable, and it's a real challenge to break into a new group of friends when yours disintegrates.

Due to the near-impossibility of getting a different bid next year, I do encourage Crunchies to stick it out a while longer to make sure that this isn't the place for her. It sounds like the chapter is under total, so she isn't really taking up a spot that could go to a COB new member. Try very hard to meet and get to know the sophomores and juniors. Are new members allowed to eat at the house? Do they have TV night or other low-key sisterhoods? Hang out there between classes and whenever else you can. Try and find an upperclassman you trust (maybe the woman who preffed you?) to talk about the loss of your pledge class friends. If after a few more weeks of truly giving 100% to this effort, you still feel the way you feel now, you'll know what to do.

[ISUKappa]

Ideally, it would be nice if everyone joined for the friendship, academic and philanthropic aspects of our organizations but in reality, that's not going to happen. If someone joins purely for the social aspects, as long as they pay their bills and don't break chapter/fraternity/university/state rules, I'm okay with that. It's difficult to get the chapter members to see their chapter as a business, though.

How I see it, you're paying for all the privileges that come along with fraternity/sorority membership. These can include social, philanthropic and campus opportunities; inter/national networking resources; the status that comes from being a part of a recognizable group; and support and encouragement from fellow members. That last could be interpreted as buying your friends, but I do feel there's more than just that. I know not everyone agrees.

We definitely had women resign membership who gave their reason as "I don't participate enough to merit paying the membership fees" and that is a legitimate reason.

[amazinglagirl]

Originally posted by sugar and spice
I think it's hilarious that people keep whining about how non-Greeks think we're buying friends: "We're not paying for friends. We're paying for the increased social opportunities, the sisterhood events, and the upkeep of the house." Which is a all well and good until you take into account the fact that these same people will get upset when people join sororities for any reason other than "friendship."

Point taken, Sugar and Spice...but I don't get ANY money for being friends with the girls in my sorority. And I don't think you did either. The money went to pay for the opportunity to share our Greek experience, sisterhood events, facility, social events, philanthropy events, etc....but not once did I personally receive a dime to be someone's friend. True, we were more likely to get to know the girls who were in our GLO, but I never considered that paying my dues meant that I was entitled to their friendship.

GLOs are -- from a financial standpoint -- a business, just like anything else. If you're charging a thousand bucks a semester for someone to be in your organization, and you're NOT charging them for the friendships . . . then what are you charging them for? Primarily the social opportunities. And if you're not getting the social opportunities, or not 1000 dollars worth of social opportunities . . . then I don't think it's out of line to quit.

I don't think it is out of line for her to quit if she is not liking her experience and they are not offering a competitive social program (or whatever it is that she is looking for) but I still think it is sad to expect the thousand dollars to buy her friends. Because even in the "nonloser" sororities your friendship with others is not automatic...it is the result of shared experiences and a little effort at being a good friend.

[rhochi2002]

I wasn't being hostile. although I have a tendency to sound that way... darn internet makes it hard to convey emotions.
actually I emphasis with crunchies quite a bit. I was a sophmore when I went through rush... I was still completely clueless about the greek systerm! But I though well it might be fun, and I could meet different people. I had an active social life before I joined a sorority so it just doubled that aspect... So I had no idea what I was getting into time commitment, reps, or anything!!
In my expirance, upper teir groups could careless about talking about your group, or at least on my campus. The only people that talk about groups are the ones that are directly competing against you for PNMS. I never really gave a rats ass what the other sororities said about my group... although I always found the sterotypes (once I joined) of the groups on campus halarious... because they were never accurate. (I can't spell!)
I completely understand the flustration over lackof mixers... from time to time... everyone gets cancels on or has to cancel.... In fact once someone posted something on another groups website that I supposely posted that cause a mixer to get cancelled. Of Course I didn't do that... how tacky... who would post negative remarks and leave their name!
Any who... if your going to stick around. I would suggust you get to know everyone that you can... in a chapter that large, it will be hard to be everyones best friend but I am sure that has been covered in much detail on GC.
if you just don't think that the sorority is right for you then depledge... it happens from time to time... but I think you should at least make an effort first... you may find it is the right place for you or you may not. just go into with positive thoughts... (haha that sounds so hippie)
but if you depledge... be considerate of the sisters feelings. even though you don't know them.... I promise that they know who you are (or at least they know of you) and want you to be there, otherwise they wouldn't have taken you...

[ASUADPi]

I have read the whole thread (woo hoo I rock!!!) and I was at first completely sympathetic to Crunchies. Mainly because when I was a freshman and joined my chapter I didn't know to many of the upperclassman either. Now, I didn't have Alphas dropping out right and left, but the seniors weren't around much. Although for me, I made an EFFORT to get to know my sisters. I volunteered to do things. I went over to the house. I understood that it was MY JOB AS WELL AS THEIRS!!!!

But now...

Girl I just want to bitch slap you.



You claim that reputations and hanging out with fraternities doesn't matter to you, but your posts don't seem to indicate otherwise.

Trust me, us "worldly" members of greekchat know how to read the fine lines of a post and honey, we've read the fine lines.

Basically, your fine line is saying that you DO care about your reputation and you DO care about what other greeks/non-greeks are saying about you and you DO care about the "social aspects" of greek life.



you better hope it never comes out what chapter you are a member of, because if I found out you were in my sorority, I would be on the phone so fast your head would spin, because I'm not going to let some new member talk shit about my sisters the way you have in this thread.



end of my pedastal


I'm sorry if I sound mean. I did feel sorry for her, but now I don't.

[Jen]

Okay....so you have to decide:

1) Whether to stay in a sorority that is "bottom tier" and you think will give you no social outlets (aside from the women in the chapter that you apparently like). You will graduate in a few years and still be a member of this organization and enjoy all the perks of alumnae membership. But it may take work to get to know everyone, and yeah, you may be in a sorority with a "loser" rep (but lets not forget that the "top tier" sorority is also going to have a rep...and it may not be flattering either).

or

2) Depledge and look for other campus activities to do that may be great, but that may not give you the experience of getting to know 100+ women and likely won't give you the after-graduation experience.

So what's more important to you? A social life with women you like, but that may be looked down upon by a handful of other people (or not...sometimes you find the smaller sisterhoods have less drama and issues and it's a relief) or you have a social life on your own without the organization of a sorority and the future experiences it may hold. Forget about re-rushing and going elsewhere...sounds like it's a very slim possibility. Especially b/c you said your Greek system is small.

I urge you to decide this before initiation, because if you stay when you're not sure, everyone here is right - you will drag your chapter down, and that does them a huge disservice.

[valkyrie]

Originally posted by ASUADPi
Girl I just want to bitch slap you.

you better hope it never comes out what chapter you are a member of, because if I found out you were in my sorority, I would be on the phone so fast your head would spin, because I'm not going to let some new member talk shit about my sisters the way you have in this thread.

Uh, yeah. If she is your sister, you are shit talking her. If she isn't, I still don't see how saying you want to "bitch slap" her is appropriate under ANY circumstances.

Also, are you saying women can't express their honest opinions about their sororities? You'd get on the phone to do what, exactly? Would someone be kicked out of your organization for expressing herself?

[sugar and spice]

Originally posted by ISUKappa
Ideally, it would be nice if everyone joined for the friendship, academic and philanthropic aspects of our organizations but in reality, that's not going to happen. If someone joins purely for the social aspects, as long as they pay their bills and don't break chapter/fraternity/university/state rules, I'm okay with that. It's difficult to get the chapter members to see their chapter as a business, though.

How I see it, you're paying for all the privileges that come along with fraternity/sorority membership. These can include social, philanthropic and campus opportunities; inter/national networking resources; the status that comes from being a part of a recognizable group; and support and encouragement from fellow members. That last could be interpreted as buying your friends, but I do feel there's more than just that. I know not everyone agrees.

We definitely had women resign membership who gave their reason as "I don't participate enough to merit paying the membership fees" and that is a legitimate reason.

I just don't get the attitude that is dished out on this website towards people who joined their organizations primarily because of the social opportunities. Let's face it -- most of us are members of SOCIAL sororities or fraternities. I don't think anybody can legitimately say they joined a social GLO for the academic benefits or philanthropy first and foremost. If academics was your priority, you'd join a business fraternity, or Marketing Club, or something directly connected with your major. If philanthropy was your #1 priority, there are a lot of ways to be directly involved, and do it cheaper, than a sorority. For most of us, the #1 reason we joined was for the social benefits and to have fun. "Social" doesn't necessarily mean "OMG GETTING WASTED AT THE HOTTTTTEST FRAT TONIGHT" -- to me, it encompasses everything from that to "Laguna Beach" night in pjs at the house -- but I don't think that wanting to meet cute frat boys is necessarily a bad incentive to join.

Like we've all said a million times, you can make friends in any organization on campus, so what is the specific draw of sororities and fraternities? I'm just throwing this out there; feel free to add your own:

-- the assumed prestige of Greek letter orgs, the idea that you're joining an "elite" group (which may or may not be an "elitist" group)
-- the "pre-screened" nature of membership (i.e., the assumption that you will be compatible with everyone, which is, of course, wrong -- but I do think it's a draw)
-- easier access to the opposite sex
-- easier access to alcohol, especially for those who are under 21
-- the fact that it is something that is national/lifelong -- you are connected to people across the country, even after college
- a consistent stream of pre-planned "events" (Homecoming, Greek Week, mixers, philanthropy competitions, formals, sisterhoods) for people like me who need that structure
- opening doors for you both on campus and in the real world

I'm sure there's more, but that's just a preliminary list. When one of those things suffers, it's usually not a big deal. However, when you start missing out on a couple of those, or most of them -- that's when a lot of people decide it's not worth it anymore.

I think that ultimately you and I are on the same page -- I don't think there's anything wrong with a girl who joins a sorority to meet fraternity men -- as long as she doesn't slack on the other obligations of membership (financial, academic, being a good sister, whatever).

I also think that the problem with a lot of chapter members is that they DON'T view the sorority as a business. Let's be honest -- at some campuses dues are very expensive. You have to get people to see that their money will be going to good use. And if you are a group that, for whatever reason, has less prestige or fewer social opportunities, you either have to make up for that in other areas (stronger sisterhood, more fun at events) or you need to charge less (like the TJ Maxx of sororities? LOL). You can't charge the same amount if you're not offering the same benefits.

(Which is unfortunate for the sororities, since the smaller groups usually need to charge MORE to stay competitive with the larger ones, since the cost is spread out among fewer members.)

And I'm not touching ASUADPi's post with a ten-foot-pole . . . haha.

[Rudey]

It takes a lot to start a chapter or join a struggling chapter. I don't know many girls that would want to do something like that.

You have to be willing to put up with the fact that you're not the best.

But at the same time, if you are a struggling chapter with a loose brotherhood/sisterhood that has remained so forever with no real plans to change and little results to show, you should consider folding.

Some people like winning.

-Rudey
--Those that don't, cheer for the Cubs.