Weigh In: America and Weight - Page 8

MereMere21 · #**106** 09-05-2003, 07:43 PM

yeah I wish it was just as easy as "eating right and exercising". When I was younger, yes it was that easy. My husband still has that ability to eat right, exercise and keep in shape so he doesn't understand the struggle.

Obesity is a disease - laziness is another situation altogether.

bafromkc · #**107** 09-08-2003, 04:00 PM

I agree that obesity is related to genetics and maybe what I was trying to say came out the wrong way. What I was complaining about was obese people who blame all their problems on the food they eat. there seem to be some people who take no responcibility for their actions and find other avenues to place blame on. people who suffer from obesity as a result of genetics don't have any control over their metabolism but they do have control over what they put in their mouth.

AKA_Monet · #**108** 09-08-2003, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bafromkc
I agree that obesity is related to genetics and maybe what I was trying to say came out the wrong way. What I was complaining about was obese people who blame all their problems on the food they eat. there seem to be some people who take no responcibility for their actions and find other avenues to place blame on. people who suffer from obesity as a result of genetics don't have any control over their metabolism but they do have control over what they put in their mouth.

Some of what you are saying is correct--like me, I have the wherewithall to not put that huge scoop of Mississippi Mud Pie in my mouth...

And at the same time, you have these "Prader Willi's" that have absolutely no control of knowing what they are putting into their mouths... They'd eat themselves if they could...

Just like those folks with anorexia who avoid eating food altogether, wouldn't you think the opposite could be true? That at some level, there is some brain nutrient that is unregulated that a morbid obese person would be incapable of controlling?

If you think that is not true, then why is that when a morbid obese person has surgery or other means to lose a number of pounds, just gains it right back?

In my eyes, I see it as a strong genetic component... Or there is some huge environmental impact that all the scientists are unable to explain serving a role and influencing biology...

How come there is more obesity now, than hell, 20 years ago?

Is there a logical, explanation?

That is why there is research--investigating why this phenomena is occuring...

It was 50 years ago when Jonas Salk suggested a vaccine for polio when the current thought was Polio is uncurable...

It was at least 25 years ago when the medical field KNEW that general ulcers are some genetic mutation and gave out several Nobel Prizes on the subject until some researcher suggest it was caused by a Heliobacter pylori (a gut bacteria) and one just needed antibiotics to treat the infection... PM me if you want to know how this dude had to prove it...

bafromkc · #**109** 09-09-2003, 11:10 AM

My uncle was obese and had gastric bypass surgery a few years ago. since then he has lost over 100lbs and he has not gained any of it back. granted, I am sure that for every success story like my uncle there are those that gain the weight back. but there are ways of avoiding "falling off the wagon." Just like there is AA for alcoholics, there are similar support groups for obese people. along with giving support and guidence to those who suffer from obesity I would think these groups would try to teach people to control what they eat, thus giving them control over their lives. even if people are born with a genetic disposition, there are still ways to improve one's situation.

sigmagrrl · #**110** 09-09-2003, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AKA_Monet

Just like those folks with anorexia who avoid eating food altogether, wouldn't you think the opposite could be true? That at some level, there is some brain nutrient that is unregulated that a morbid obese person would be incapable of controlling?

There is a very obvious double standard between the way people with one eating disorder (anorexia/bulimia) are treated as opposed to people with another eating disorder (compulsive overeating).

Why are we more apt to give those with disordered eating that leans toward the restrictive more "leniency" (for lack of a better term) or seemingly hold them in higher esteem in regard to their personal responsibility/ownership of their issue vs. those who abuse food or use it as a panacea?

If some people's theories and beliefs are applied in this instance, an anorexic could just as easily "eat" and "not exercise" so that they could gain weight with the same assumed ease that a compulsive overeater/obese person could "curtail" their eating and "exercise" in order to lose the offending weight...

EDITED TO ADD: I am not saying this is what AKA_Monet said, I was using her statement as a springboard...

MereMere21 · #**111** 09-09-2003, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bafromkc
My uncle was obese and had gastric bypass surgery a few years ago. since then he has lost over 100lbs and he has not gained any of it back. granted, I am sure that for every success story like my uncle there are those that gain the weight back. but there are ways of avoiding "falling off the wagon." Just like there is AA for alcoholics, there are similar support groups for obese people. along with giving support and guidence to those who suffer from obesity I would think these groups would try to teach people to control what they eat, thus giving them control over their lives. even if people are born with a genetic disposition, there are still ways to improve one's situation.

My MIL is one of those non success stories. She had her stomach stapled in 1990 (?) I believe. When she had the surgery she was 450 lbs. Today she weighs - 450 lbs. She lost about 200 lbs after surgery and then put all the weight back on, plus I think she might have gained some more. This surgery is the pre cursor to the Roux en Y procedure done today that has a far better success rate. My MIL is one of those people that blamed everybody and everything else for her being morbidly obese. She gets on my last nerve because to this day she bitches and moans about it. All I have to say is that if you would get your ass out of the recliner to do more than get another ding dong, maybe you wouldn't have gained the weight back!

Like I said, Obesity is a disease - laziness is something else. I would say her probelm was genetics, but she is the only overweight one in her family. My husband is 6'3" 190 lbs, his brother is 6'5" 250 lbs. Her parents were not heavy either.

Pretty much every shift I work I see people who would not be in an Intesive Care Unit if they had taken care of themselves. Don't even get me started on the Type II Diabetes patients!

AKA_Monet · #**112** 09-09-2003, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MereMere21
My MIL is one of those non success stories. She had her stomach stapled in 1990 (?) I believe. When she had the surgery she was 450 lbs. Today she weighs - 450 lbs. She lost about 200 lbs after surgery and then put all the weight back on, plus I think she might have gained some more. This surgery is the pre cursor to the Roux en Y procedure done today that has a far better success rate. My MIL is one of those people that blamed everybody and everything else for her being morbidly obese. She gets on my last nerve because to this day she bitches and moans about it. All I have to say is that if you would get your ass out of the recliner to do more than get another ding dong, maybe you wouldn't have gained the weight back!

Like I said, Obesity is a disease - laziness is something else. I would say her probelm was genetics, but she is the only overweight one in her family. My husband is 6'3" 190 lbs, his brother is 6'5" 250 lbs. Her parents were not heavy either.

Pretty much every shift I work I see people who would not be in an Intesive Care Unit if they had taken care of themselves. Don't even get me started on the Type II Diabetes patients!

There is another issue at hand too, that it is thought in the "research arena", that being morbidly obese exacerbates the underlying problem of depression...

So, basically, morbidly obese persons eat because they have some sort of depression, then they feel bad because they ate, so then ILLOGICALLY, they eat more because it is well known in neurobiochemistry that the sugar gets you high--but is smashes you in the end... So, sugar addiction plays a role in the continuance of the morbidly obese...

Moreover, at least what the research says and this is psychological, that morbidly obese people never realize that their weight loss will occur very S-L-O-W-L-Y over time, irregardless of having surgery... One MUST modify his or her eating behavior, so that the weight can stay off... And that might take a Paxil-like drug in addition to all the other drugs because of surgery.

But don't get me started on weight loss management schemes only out there to make a buck... Remember Fen-phen...

And the folks that have type 2 diabetes... Their obesity issues, at least in the genetics department is a whole 'nother ball game... 'Cuz not only do they have to worry about weight gain, they also have to worry about heart attacks and/or strokes--then losing limbs due to gangrene and becoming insulin-resistant... I guess they are pretty much FUBARed by the time they get into intensive care...

MereMere21 · #**113** 09-09-2003, 01:17 PM

One night I was in a patients room and her husband was by her bed. His wife was intubated and unresposive in a diabetes induced coma. I took her blood sugar and it was about 450 or so. He asked what I was doing and I explained that I was checking to see if she needed insulin. He then starts to tell me that they didn't do that (check their sugar) even though their ENTIRE family - even the 300 lb. 15 year old - was diabetic. OH DEAR GOD!That was a case where genetics was working against them.

thats just one story - I also can't tell you how many morbidly obese patients we have that are frequent flyers. It takes 4 or more nurses just to move them, let alone care for them. Then there is the added issue of decubitis. One night in my unit would convince anyone to take care of themselves!

I get on my soap box about these things because just like smoking=lung cancer, these things are easily prevented. Behavior modification truly is the way to successful weight loss. Until then you will be a slave to many more Fen Phen like semantics. Atkins, South Beach, all the rest of the 'fad' diets, give people what they want - an "easy" way out of their obesity. There is nothing easy about weight loss.

bafromkc · #**114** 09-09-2003, 01:46 PM

Quote:

I get on my soap box about these things because just like smoking=lung cancer, these things are easily prevented. Behavior modification truly is the way to successful weight loss. Until then you will be a slave to many more Fen Phen like semantics. Atkins, South Beach, all the rest of the 'fad' diets, give people what they want - an "easy" way out of their obesity.

You could not be more right. This goes back to the obesity support groups I was going back to earlier. They TEACH you to change your behavior/habits.

MereMere21 · #**115** 09-09-2003, 03:23 PM

this is why I have such little sympathy for 'wo is me' - nothing is going to happen by just feeling sorry for yourself

adpiucf · #**116** 09-09-2003, 04:07 PM

In my family there are fat people, average people and thin people. Growing up, my brother was pudgy and I was scrawny. In high school, my brother got really into sports and grew into a very good-looking, 6'4" basketball player. When he graduated, he fell in with a bad crowd, moved away and began a horrible combination of fast-food and chain-smoking. Today, he is beyond obsese and both his eating habits and smoking are completely repulsive. I watch him killing himself slowly and I want to throw something at him. No amount of rational family talks, begging, pleading or screaming will stop him from shoveling food in his mouth while a cigarette burns from his fingers and he just smiles and nods at your pleadings and advice to live a healthier lifestyle. I'm 5'5" and 110 pounds-- it's hard to believe we came from the same mother!!! My parents are little overweight, but they temper their love of good food with organics, vitamins and going to the gym 3x a week.

I would ask for advice about my brother, but he's enjoying sending himself to an early grave. "As long as he's happy." It really, really sucks to watch someone being so destructive and there's nothing anyone can or will do to stop him. It's funny-- a person can starve themselves to death and the authorities will intervene to save them... but eating to death??? I don't think anyone has prepared for that.

MereMere21 · #**117** 09-09-2003, 05:54 PM

sadly, food is almost if not just as deadly as heroin. Look at this way - would you just sit back and let him be happy if he was shooting up every chance he got? I know thats an extreme example, but the effects of obesity are just as bad.

I completely understand watching someone you love self destruct. I wish I had some better advice than just to keep at him, but unfortunately that is really all you can do short of committing him to a psych ward.

Lady Pi Phi · #**118** 09-09-2003, 07:03 PM

You can't help someone who won't help themselves.

All the pleading in the world won't help someone with self-destructive behaviour if they don't want to get help.

swissmiss04 · #**119** 09-09-2003, 07:12 PM

Well there are quite a few people with legit problems. I have a friend who has some sort of hormonal problem and he honestly weighs over 450. He eats quite healthily and he does exercise, but he'll always be "large". I feel so bad for people like that because they get labelled as "fat pigs" when in reality they're doing all they can. It's dangerous to make assumptions about the causes of people's conditions.

AKA_Monet · #**120** 09-09-2003, 07:51 PM

Now we are getting into an area that has more to do with psychological issues rather than genetic issues...

Some behaviors can be moderately maintained using drugs specific for the factors that cause the psychological issues--i.e. anti-depressants and anti-psychotics...

However, what is obesity-related depression/anxiety/compulsion? Are all eating disorders alike--genetically and biochemically? Maybe there is NOT a biological component to this mixture. But what if there is? What if I can make it where, an obese person can lose the weight they desire without all the repercussions... What would be wrong about that?

Would it be any different if science could make the blind, see??? Or the deaf, hear???

I think there is a judgement being made that we all need to consider... There are a multitude of reasons as to why some folks are fat and some are thin and some are somewhere in between... Our society is obsessed with thinness and a skewed perspective of healthiness... So, we want all the glamour and glitz, but not have to work too hard for it--some work is okay, but doing whatever it takes to get that weight down--most just give up... These folks say to themselves and other, "it was easier for me to do this right now..."

Yeah, we all know that instant gratification is not truly everlasting, but hey, just to make the joy of just one day in one person's life...

I dunno about all of that...

But I do know that some of these issues will be treated by medical genetic therapy and it will come quite rapidly...