Enna05's Recruitment at USC

[Floridagirl]

Then clearly what we need is National Panhellenic to take up this discussion about getting all campus panhells to agree to use release figures for the pref round. If all of the NPC groups agree at the national level then each campus panhell will do it. No one wants the big houses to be successful at the expense of the smaller ones.

[maggieaxid]

Ok, I was thinking about this...and if you look at this mathematically gaurenting a bid to any girl who even goes to pref. doesn't work for larger greek system schools.

and this is just from my experience:

Say suzie is going through recruitment. there are 499 other girls going through recruitment with 6 NPC sororities. her GPA is a 2.8, she has minimal extra-curricular activities, no recs, and is not a legacy to anywhere. she has not gotten to meet any sorority women prior to recruitment.

first round, she attends all 6 parties. ABC, DEF, HIJ cut her based on grades/ extra-currics, no recs, and she doesn't know anyone who will go to bat for her to keep her because their are sooo many girls going through. KLM, NOP, QRS invite her back. She must go back to 4 parties, but only can go to 3. so she is forced to go to all 3 even though she did not like QRS at all.

During this time, 50 rushees drop out. leaving a total of 425.

Suzy goes to second round she goes back to KLM, NOP, and QRS. KLM cuts her because she was low coming back on their invite list to second round, KLM has lots of legacy's that they CAN NOT cut yet, and all the reasons that are listed above. She can only go back to 3 for 3rd round, but only has 2 to go to, and she still does not like QRS.

After second round, another 100 PNM's drop out, leaving 325. Qouta is set to the number of girls invited to third round divided by 6. Qouta is set at 54 new members, plus a possibilty of qouta addition, which would be a total of 56. You would think that this would gaurantee most girls going through to 3rd round that they would recieve a bid, but then this happens....

suzy goes to third round at NOP and QRS. She is trying really hard at NOP bc she likes them, and gets a long with them pretty well. She still isn't crazy about QRS and thinks she is wasting her time. her attitude is starting to show a bit, but because QRS is under chapter total, they have to invite her back to pref. so that their numbers won't drop dramatically. Suzy is invited back to Pref at NOP and QRS.

However, another 100 girls drop out of rush going into pref. leaving 215. Qouta is set at 34 + the option of qouta addition.

Suzy goes to pref.. Suzy ranks NOP first, and QRS second. She believes that because she has made it through this far, she will most likely get a bid from somewhere.

NOP ranks suzy at the end of bid list B, they fill qouta +2 before getting to her on Bid list B. Because of Suzy;s attitude during Round 3 at QRS, they rank her low on their Bid list B bc they figure she would prefer being elsewhere, and most likely get a bid from that org.. Suzy then becomes that 6% of girls who did not recieve a bid or were cross-cut that year.

suzy is a nice girl, she's cute, has ok grades...so how do we combat this....add more NPC sororities? change the legacy policies? change the way we do insane sorority math?

[33girl]

Originally posted by maggieaxid
but because QRS is under chapter total, they have to invite her back to pref. so that their numbers won't drop dramatically.

as someone from a smaller chapter I just want to say that I do know sororities are sometimes forced to do this, by either the national or panhel, and it is bull...I don't care if you have 3 members, if a girl shows up to your parties and is rude, inconsiderate and disinterested, you should be allowed to cut her loose. I can't think of anything that would be more wearing on the self esteem of a sorority that's already worried than having to put up with jerks at your parties where neither of you wants to be there.

OK, I just had to vent on that.

What's the solution? Well if I knew that I would get a big gold medal, but one thing I can say from reading these "big school rush" threads is, a good start would be to destigmatize informal rush and/or COB. It seems like at some schools if you have to open bid everybody acts like you are wearing your underwear on your head. Let's face it, some chapters suck at formal, but they can pull in big numbers in COB. Plus I think the focus should be on member RETENTION, not member gathering. Who gives a crap if you get quota every time if half those girls aren't active by their senior year?

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally posted by 33girl


Well if I knew that I would get a big gold medal, but one thing I can say from reading these "big school rush" threads is, a good start would be to destigmatize informal rush and/or COB. It seems like at some schools if you have to open bid everybody acts like you are wearing your underwear on your head. Let's face it, some chapters suck at formal, but they can pull in big numbers in COB.

Plus I think the focus should be on member RETENTION, not member gathering. Who gives a crap if you get quota every time if half those girls aren't active by their senior year?

*

**snap*snap*snap***

[valkyrie]

Originally posted by Angels&Arrows
In systems like UGA many houses are competing for the same 150-200 girls, with quota at 50+/-, and five houses competing, someone’s not going to make it.

Here is something that has been driving me nuts when I think about it. A&A, I'm not sure if you mentioned this same topic somewhere else -- I know I've heard of it before. I'm talking about houses competing for the same 150 or so girls. Why is this? Who are the 150 girls that everyone wants? Why are there some people who are so appealing that they are the ones everybody wants? I know that it's true -- I'm not questioning the observation at all because I agree with it. I just want to understand it. What is it about those highly desirable rushees that everyone thinks they would make better sisters when there are plenty of women outside that 150 who would be just as good if not better?

I know we're getting off track of Enna's recruitment, so Enna, I'm sorry about that. I also wanted to tell you that I think you are just the coolest person, and I have been impressed by your attitude and your posts from the start. I hope that COB goes well for you, and whatever happens, I hope you'll keep posting because you are awesome!!!

[PsychTau]

My chapter has ALWAYS done much better with COB. We felt more comfortable, and our new members always said that is what made them accept their bid. . we were comfortable and they didn't have to pretend to be anyone else with us. COB was great for us, formal rush usually wasn't. I too know what it feels like to be the chapter that always COB's, when another one is at/above total. But it worked for us. We just kept plugging along.

I've not been involved with bid matching, but I don't think our campus has been too consistent with using release figures(if we used them at all!). I wonder what recruitment would be like if we adhered to all the formulas. I do remember the largest 2 sororities inviting back like 75% or better of the rushees to pref EACH, when they could only give bids to 25% (We had 4 sororities on campus). That was definately not fair, because the PMN's could only go to 2 prefs. . .guess which ones they DIDNT go to, and DIDNT put on their bid list. (and guess how many went bidless, until the invention of snap bids). This is my impression, I have no idea of the actual numbers.

This is the same campus that has way less than 100 girls signed up for rush this year. Lord, help us.

Enna. . .go do COB. I've personally seen it work for many girls over...and over...and over... and over again.

[Floridagirl]

That is what I am afraid of. Women going bidless after being at pref parties will result eventually in less women being interested in rush. The large houses shouldn't use pref as just another party round after which they cut people. They need to cut these rushees before this round. Again, if the houses use release fiqures for pref invites this would be for the maximum number that each house could invite. Houses could always invite less. This way no house would ever have to invite anyone who has been rude etc. to them.I have seen situations at Florida schools that when the rushees begin to get heavily dropped they leave rush. Its not that they don't like the houses at all that they have invites to, they think that by the end of the week they may not have any invites or even after pref they may not get a bid. They don't want to go to the rest of the week to maybe be left with nothing at all. This hurts the small houses the most. So how do we keep these women in rush longer? I think by making sure that if they stick it out through pref they will get a bid. The rushees need to know that there is a reasonable chance they will get a bid to somewhere, NOT A PROMISE, BUT A REASONABLE CHANCE.

[MoxieGrrl]

Originally posted by Floridagirl
That is what I am afraid of. Women going bidless after being at pref parties will result eventually in less women being interested in rush. The large houses shouldn't use pref as just another party round after which they cut people. They need to cut these rushees before this round. Again, if the houses use release fiqures for pref invites this would be for the maximum number that each house could invite

Yes, yes, yes! I totally agree with you! Because of the lack of utilizing recruitment figures, Bethany's Panhell is all screwed up. We do not have very many women going through recruitment every year, so all 4 of the houses were competing for the same, oh, 25 women. When quota is usually around 13, this is v. v. bad. The big houses will not cut until after pref, leaving a huge number of PNMs whose hopes are up, suicide, then don't match *or* who figure they aren't going to get their first choice (they see that everyone and their mother was also invited to the same prefs) so they just drop out.

In the past few years, we have seen more and more women with the attitude of "If I don't get XYZ, I'm not pledging" and houses acting on "Oh well, we'll string them along and pick them up in COB, they'll wait." The result is less and less women are going through formal recruitment and less women are showing even less interest in Greek Life.

I do not think that every woman needs a bid for the reasons stated in other posts, but if you make it to a pref....you should be somewhere good on someone's bid list. I do think that the quota+ thing should be based on recruitment figures. Otherwise, big houses will just keep on getting bigger while the others die.

[maggieaxid]

i've also wondered about legacy policies. As grandmothers become great grandmother's the legacy line grows longer and longer. Requiring chapters to take most, if not all legacies, lessens the number of bids to be given out to women who are not legacies, but may be great greek assets. my family is a perfect example of this:

my grandmother is a KKG, a founder at a college in New Jersey in the 1930's. She had 4 daughters, 2 end up KKG. Those 4 daughters have a total of 7 female children, all legacies to KKG- still, some double legacies. Even though none of the grandchildren (well, we have one more to still go through recruitment) have went KKG. Now, my one cousin just had a baby, does that mean now that the baby is a KKG legacy?

[KappaKittyCat]

Yes. If that baby's mother, grandmother, great-grandmother, or sister is a Kappa, then she is a Kappa legacy.

Kappa still has a very narrow description of legacy. In this age of "nontraditional" families, I'd like to see step-mothers and sisters, as well as aunts and cousins, count as legacies. That's on the one hand. On the other hand is that some chapters of Kappa have more legacies come through Recruitment than they have total spots in the house. So do we need to add even more legacies to that number?

[Floridagirl]

I don't know of any NPC groups that require their chapters to take legacies. So many get cut. I am o.k. with that as long it is before pref.
I also want to say that I think a colony has a different pref situation and if they want to cut after pref then it is appropriate. A colonization pref party is more like a typical rush party in that it is not as initimate as an established house's pref.It is more like a formal rush party with some traditions. Also a rushee's expectations are different. They know that they have one shot. It is either this house or no house. There is usually no fee to rush a colony either. A colony must be allowed to ask as many as it wants to pref because they have no idea how many will show up the next day to pick up a bid. It is a more iffy situation for them.

Sorry Enna for hijacking your thread. Pm me if you would like me to see if my group got quota, and if not, if they are snab/cobing. As you can see from the number of hits on this thread, your story has started a debate.

[Floridagirl]

Moxiegirl, the smaller campuses feel the bad rep thing first because they are in a smaller environment. The larger houses on every campus should be required to use release numbers going into pref. Even if the smaller houses use the release numbers, their numbers will be much more liberal than the large houses.
On a small campus here in Florida only 8, yes I said 8, girls showed up for formal rush. Last year it was 40. Now both houses are going to have to do cob. What a hassle!
UF, which is a huge campus with 15 NPCs and 1200 rushees had a fabulous rush. All but two houses got quota. And those two just missed it. I hear that there is a very active snap situation at one so I am sure they will have quota this week. What did UF do right? I don't completely know. But I do know that they have a very active Rho CHi outreach program to encourage rushees to stay in rush after they get cut by their fav house. Also I don't of any rushees who went to pref and didn't get a bid. The greeks' rep on that campus is so good that DZ will have their pick of several hundred women. I have seen some of these women. They are good looking, smart, active and would be an assest to any greek org. This is what a good rep will do for a campus.

[maggieaxid]

why do we hold rush this way? i mean, why do we have qouta? does IFC have qouta? why is there rush period set up so differently?

the more i think about it, why can't the PNM's go to the houses they are intereseted in, not forced to go to the ones they don't like. And why can't the sorority just take the girls that they like. One house may take 35 girls while another house may take 10...as long as they are above campus total, i don't see why we all have to have equal numbers of members.

[FuzzieAlum]

The reason sororities are all fighting for the same 150 girls is the same reason the rushees are all fighting for the same few houses! We pick on them a little for being poor, gullible freshmen, blinded by the glamour of the "top" houses, but we turn around and do the same thing right back to them.

I think part of the problem is that because we do formal rush en masse it leads to a herd mentality ... "all the girls in my group like Psi, so I should, too." "They say Mu Mu sucks .... what do they know that I don't?"

That's one place where the men have an edge (or informal rush does, too). Yeah, there are other people rushing with you, but the peer-to-peer pressure and competition is lessened. And spreading rush out over a couple of weeks gives you more time to think about your choices. The one advantage formal rush has is that is forces women to look at all their choices. I mean, our campus had 17 fraternities, and no man went to more than a couple of houses during rush. The upperclassmen had the excuse of knowing guys in most of the houses, but not the freshman.

So if Panhel let me redesign rush (when pigs have wings!), I'd start off rush with something similar to first party. Girls are required to go to all houses for tours or something similar. But after that, they go back to where they want to over a period of two weeks. The houses have events, not "parties." (When you have a choice of going to turkey bowling vs. rock climbing, the personality of the house shows a lot more than in a "Grease" vs. a "TRL" skit!) Let them have an invite-only event at the end where they do preference. Go to as many as you want, but naturally time will put a limit on how many you go to. And then, let houses give out bids to whomever they want. So yes, you can get multiple bids, like in informal. No one gets cross-cut, and if you didn't get a bid, it really means something - it's not a problem in the system. (Either Greek life isn't for you, or you had no idea where you really fit in.)

The immediate objection is that everyone will go Pi Pi and no one will join Du Du. One could put a cap on the number of bids given out, I suppose. But the guys seem to manage fine with houses of varying sizes. And because of that, the stigma of being *slightly* smaller disappears. Sure, being a house of 12 when the others have 50 is noticed, but having 40, who cares?

The biggest thing I can say to recommend this is - at almost every campus I know of, except women's colleges, there are more fraternities than sororities, and more Greek men than women. How many women do you know who hated formal rush and took their chances on COB? Or who don't go Greek at all because the thought of formal terrifies them? So - what is it they are doing better than us, especially given that there are slightly more college women then men?

[PsychTau]

Fuzzie,

I think your idea of redesigning rush could work on the smaller campuses that just seem to struggle with formal. I've had no experience with larger campuses so I can't speak to that. However, I can see how the system would almost fall apart the first year or two after the switch. It would take changing current member's attitudes towards rush and membership, and also the campus as a whole. If ALL the groups stuck with it, even if they have only 5 members returning to school, it has the great potential to work. (I'm thinking of my campus with only 4 sororities and 5 fraternities).

It seems like on my campus, there are girls who are all about going into a sorority, and are prepared for rush, know all about it, etc. and love every minute of it. Then there are others who come to campus not knowing what they want to do, take their time looking around, and see that "those sororities are cool, and they do lots of things I like". Then they decide to rush, usually after formal is over. What's left is COB, which works out well for those girls.