Rejected black rushee starts "multi-cultural" GLO at AL

[lovelyivy84]

Nothing in the UA Greek system will change unless the racial environment on that campus changes. I DOUBT that somehow all the really racist people just happened to end up in frats, and the rest of the campus is totally normal and integrated. Chances are that the social life in that campus is completely segregated, and that is just reflected in the greek system. The UA Greeks can't MAKE black people pledge if they don't want to, and I somehow doubt that many of them at this school want to, simply because of the environment on this campus.

That doesn't mean that the UA Greeks are entirely free from fault. The fact that no black girl (not biracial, but BLACK) has EVER been accepted is HIGHLY HIGHLY HIGHLY suspect, and I really have a problem believing it is solely due to a lack of interest here. Race is playing a factor, whether some of you would like to believe that or not.

This whole argument over how racist Alabama is or isn't is kinda pointless. Everyone's experience is different, and none of you can be totally right or wrong because anecdotal experience means squat if you don't have figures to back it up.

Neicy81, you should really take a look at the way you post. Your style is really condescending and offensive to everyone you reply to. And I have yet to ever see you back up claims with empirical data. Anecdotal evidence really doesn't mean much in a good argument.

Tom Earp- can you believe I actually kinda agree with you? I have had to break down folks in the past too sometimes, and I HONESTLY can't say that I thought you were wrong in this case. Almost every time that Neicy has ever responded to a white poster it has been with rudeness and condescension. It's highly unnecessary, and I can see why you lost your temper. If some of the black posters on here were being honest they'd probably say they agreed with you too, but party lines and all....


Rudey- LOL. LMAO. You crazy.

[Tom Earp]

Neicy,I ,thank you for the comopliment!
Maybe your are getting the idea.

Make your point and not attack!

You do have many great points that are brought up and rightly so!

You Are a member of GreekChat and remember that as you have your opininon!

Thank You for yor post! I thjink You will be a good member after all!

[lovelyivy84]

[i]Originally posted by neicy81

1.I did look at the way I posted and I believe I responded in the last post to you.I broke down some of the sarcastic remarks that you "claimed" were rude.Don't agree with it..oh well.
2.Also, while it may be convenient for you to believe that everyone should have a similar debate style, I don't. I can only do things MY way and for those that don't agree don't have to participate or acknowledge me at all. I dont have a set format when I have a discussion with people in public nor on the internet..
3. I'm not particularly rude to a "white" poster. First of all, how do I know they are white behind a computer screen?You also seem to denote the fact that I harass "whites"(whomever they may be) in every thread I have posted in. Considering I don't just post in 2 threads that reasoning alone is faulty.But thanks anyway.

Breaking down a remark doesn't make it any less condescending or rude then when you were originally posting it. I am sure that sarcasm is just your way of expressing yourself, and that's fine but what I am letting YOU know is that it is EXTREMELY offputting. People don't like beings poken down to, and it leads to personal fights, not good conversations.

If you want people to actually discuss the topic of conversations instead of your nasty attitude then you might just want to try and LISTEN to what people are telling you instead of just brushing it off. It's not about a style of debate here, it's about simple RESPECT for others. Sarcasm is all well and good, but if you think it's respectful, or that people should just let it go in conversations, then you must not be too good with the people skills.

Do things your way if you please but don't be surprised or act all defensive about the responses you get. You only get the kind of reactions you ask for with your snotty posts.

[KSig RC]

Originally posted by neicy81
So my posts being snotty to you is representative of everyone on GC? Umm ok!As stated earlier, I did NOT mean to hurt anyone's feelings with the sarcastic remarks I made earlier.I stated what they actually meant and if people still got offended then that's a personal issue.Also, YOU were the one who came up with the "empirical data" statement which is what I was referring to when I said debate style.I am NOT defensive nor do I cry or bitch about the complaints that I get here on GC.If you can find where I have then by all means copy and paste.A lot of the other GC'ers have agreed with me or "scolded" others but I don't fish for support so you won't find me acknowleding those people at all. Like I said before and will say for the last time, I can only do ME. I would love to try to please you and others but that's not one of my ideal goals at all.I believe that I do respect people here on GC. Have I called someone out of their name?What about racial slurs? Um no didn't think so.And just how can you have a "nasty attitude" over the internet anyway?LOL

[trying to cipher post]

To answer the last question first:

"Nasty attitude" may just equal "turning constructive criticism into another 'why I am correct' diatribe" if nothing else. Ponder that.

Else - I have no clue where you got:

-your posts rep everyone on GC
-"empirical data" is lovelyivy's thing - nope, that's a LIFE THING, and key to forensics.
-that just not calling people out equals respecting them

Step outside your brain for a bit, ace, and realize that there's an off chance that you're not absolutely correct about everything you say. It's a tough lesson, one I had to learn the hard way, and one that separates an intelligent person from a brilliant person.

[Kevin]

The trouble is neicy... I don't know if it's necessarily your fault -- but whenever you enter into these discussions the entire thread subject shifts to your confrontational style and away from the subject...

How can this help your argument?

[Kevin]

Yes I am aggressive. I do think that being aggressive and disrespectful can be different things in some situations.However, I don't think I entered the discussion at all being aggressive.Someone twisted my words, made false assumptions and I lost patience and became aggressive

This will be my last mention today about confrontational style... But realize that people form impressions of you quickly. These impressions will effect the way that you are perceived from that point on. On something like the internet where typing is the only way to communicate you have to be careful not just of what is said but how it is said.

If something is said in a way that is aggressive, condescending, etc.. It typically works against you and obscures whatever point you had.

I'm not just talking about neicy. I'm talking about neicy and lots of other folks on here. Remember that by getting aggressive you just shift other people into defensive mode and you end up with a stalemate.

[lovelyivy84]

OK neicy, as an example I have picked out a post you made earlier in the thread.

IvySpice said:

I can't speak for Neicy, but my ears did perk up, and I think that's a problem. Sure, we've all heard terrible things about race relations in the Deep South, but to whatever extent I can, I'm trying to base my opinions on personal knowledge and not on reputation. It's too easy to just say, "Well, it's Alabama, so of course everybody there is racist," especially since there are plenty of covert racists in the North. Other people know more about Alabama than I do, and I want to hear as much first-hand knowledge as I can before drawing any conclusions.

Now I do not necessarily agree with this post. You CAN'T rely on personal experience alone because too many people don't share it. You have to look for data that points to how widespread a problem this is, and how many people it is affecting in a REAL way. Personal stories don't do that.

But you responded to her by saying:

You can base it on personal experience or knowledge if you want but the history as well as what's going on NOW can't be erased or denied.Do you watch that news?Regardless if you're in Alabama or not, you should not be so naive or surprised to know that this wouldn't happen in Alabama.Come on wake up and smell the coffee!

Comments like "Do you watch the news" just belittle the intelligence of the person you're talking to. Telling her to "wake up and smell the coffee" simply because she had reservations about your sweeping indictment of Alabama was just as condescending. THAT is disrespect in my eyes.

Why not just point out to her the long history of racial struggle in the state and cite examples? Why not tell her what is really going on instead of telling her to "wake up?" THAT is how you reach people.

This is just one example- I am not going to go through all your posts, as there are really far too many of these kinds of comments for me to go into it in depth, but I did want to show you what I meant. It would be one thing if you told her of your personal experience, and maybe pointed to history citing distinct events but telling her to watch the news and wake up and smell the coffee just doesn't cut it in ANY argument. You can't argue on some sort of assumed knowledge, you have to point to exactly what you mean or your argument just seems specious.

Aggressive and disrespectful ARE two different things, but you are going towards disrespectful far too often for many posters. Can you see that?

[Glitter650]

OK... being from a very diverse State and an integrated greek system, I must say that I think it is sad that the sororities haven't had the chance to expand their sisterhoods to include diversity because I believe that is one great thing about being in a sorority is it provides you the chance to meet people you may not have met under any other circumstances. I have friends of all different ages, religions, majors, etc... and I know I'm a better, more rounded person for it. I believe every sorority and fraternity should give that opportunity to their members.
There is no one reason for this lack of integration. Instead of fight about it, which is going to make NOTHING change, why don't we all, no matter if you're from Alabama or Oregon do whatever we can to make sure that we are inclusive ?

[TempleOne]

Furthermore for those that are saying they haven't been to Alabama, so what???What about the Halloween episode at Auburn that made a mockery of a prestigious black fraternity?Who hasn't heard what life is like in Alabama?


Okay.... here are my two cents:


I am a native of Alabama and a member of the group of women dedicated to bringing a multi-cultural sorority to the University of Alabama.

I know there are A LOT of stereotypes about southern life, especially life in Alabama. It is unfortunate that the ignorant actions of few reflect poorly and seem to suggest the views of all. I am not saying the south is an Utopia of racial harmony. What I am saying is that racial inclusiveness is a reality and happens everyday in the south... in Alabama.... on the campus of the UA.
You CAN NOT base the actions of a small group of people and label everyone racist. It is unfair. It is untrue.

On a separate note, the women in this sorority know we face some barriers. There are people on our campus who doubt us. There are some of you here at this site that doubt us. That's okay. We're cool with that. We just can't wait to prove EVERYONE wrong. To those who have sent us well-wishes and support, we thank you! It means a lot to us!

Let me clarify one thing: we are not trying to eradicate racism on our campus. We saw a need that was unmet. We met so many women who felt discouraged concerning joining a sorority based on their class standing, race, religion, etc.

This group was started to let every woman on campus know that there is a place for them in the greek system here at the Capstone. It shouldn't matter if you aren't blonde, blue-eyed or if your parents don't hold country club memberships. It shouldn't matter if you're a transfer student or a junior. We wanted to break down that unseen barrier.

We have and never will say that the women who choose to join NPC sororities are racist. Just as the incident at Auburn illustrates, there are "bad apples" in every bunch. I know several women who are in NPC sororities and I know them to be kind, intelligent, warm and decent individuals. I know that in the face of tradition, it is hard to go against the grain.

There is a refrain from a very famous song. It speaks of change. It states that change is a long time coming. This is true about integration of the greek community here at the Capstone. Steps are being taken. One day it will become a reality.

[lovelyivy84]

I don't try to speak for anybody but myself. What I was trying to show you is WHY you might be getting the reactions that you are from so many people who have an issue with you.

What do you keep hearing people say here: You have good points but the way you express yourself makes it hard for people to even acknowledge them because you are extremely abrasive. I am giving you the heads up on my POV because it's mine, I can, and I felt like it. You don't like it, don't read it, don't respond. This is probably the last message I write to you anyway, because frankly it's just like hitting my head against a brick wall- you refuse to even consider the points and feelings of others.

Clearly you are too defensive to even consider the possibility that you are ever wrong, and will just continue to dismiss anything that I or others will say. That's fine, no skin off my back. Just don't expect the reactions you get to change either.

That's what I get for trying to help the young and callow, lol.

Originally posted by neicy81



Ok what we have here is a failed attempt to figure out the "tone" of my argument.Asking her does she watch the news wasn't "disrespectful". Nor was I being sarcastic.Some don't watch the news which is why I asked.I don't watch it as often as I would like to.And the wake up and smell the coffee statement wasn't either.Also, is what disrespectful in your eyes representative of everyone here? Why is it that you've made yourself the respect police? If she felt it was disrespectful, then perhaps SHE should have told me.People "read" things different;y but you seem to have spoken for this whole website.

[Wine&Blue]

Originally posted by neicy81
Furthermore for those that are saying they haven't been to Alabama, so what???What about the Halloween episode at Auburn that made a mockery of a prestigious black fraternity?Who hasn't heard what life is like in Alabama?

Thank you for reminding me why I haven't been here in months.

[Honeykiss1974]

GOOD GRIEF...!!!!!

CAN WE ALL JUST ACKNOWLEDGE AND/OR ACCEPT THAT PEOPLE HAVE DIFFERENT DEBATING/DISCUSSION STYLES AND LEAVE IT AT THAT?

A DIFFERENT STYLE DOES NOT MAKE YOU RACIST/CONFUSED/ETC...IT JUST MAKE YOU DIFFERENT!!!

WHY HAS THIS THREAD TURNED INTO A "SAVE NEICY81" INFOMERCIAL?


Moving on.........

TempleOne,

Thanks for coming in here and letting us know the deal behind the new MC sorority that is coming to UA. i wish y'all nothing but the best. If you wouldn't mind indulging me, I do have a few questions

Do you yourself feel that with Ms. Twiley's name being largely associated with your sorority is giving you guys a "reputation" already?

Also, why did you guys specifically choose a MCGLO as opposed to an NPHC or LGLO ?

[Tom Earp]

Geez even I know that if you do not water a plant, it will not grow!

It seems that No Matter what anyone says, it will not deter a single minded person!

Dont Post and Thread will die!

Thank you for you time!

I thought we were here to help each other not rip us apart!

[Swamp Thang]

"Furthermore for those that are saying they haven't been to Alabama, so what???What about the Halloween episode at Auburn that made a mockery of a prestigious black fraternity?Who hasn't heard what life is like in Alabama? "

To whoever made this comment... there was also blackface incidents at: Ole Miss, U of Louisville and Dartmoth(sp? Ivy League School) in the same month as the Auburn incident.

Racism goes on in some form in most places in the US.

sincerely..

born, raised, college educated in Birmingham Alabama Black Man..

Swamp Thang..

[SapphireSweetie]

Originally posted by Honeykiss1974
GOOD GRIEF...!!!!!

CAN WE ALL JUST ACKNOWLEDGE AND/OR ACCEPT THAT PEOPLE HAVE DIFFERENT DEBATING/DISCUSSION STYLES AND LEAVE IT AT THAT?

A DIFFERENT STYLE DOES NOT MAKE YOU RACIST/CONFUSED/ETC...IT JUST MAKE YOU DIFFERENT!!!

WHY HAS THIS THREAD TURNED INTO A "SAVE NEICY81" INFOMERCIAL?

Honeykiss, you are just off the hook @ the infomerical comment!! LMAO!!!