Why are recs absolutely necessary at some schools, while not expected at others?

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by adpiucf

I think the difference may lie not only in how some schools value recs over others, but also in how one sorority values recommendations over another in membership selection. Every sorority has different criteria that they value over others. A recommendation doesn't guarantee someone a bid to a sorority, but it is something considered in the process and some organizations may place more weight on the rec than other sororities. I guess I am now understanding that for some sororities, a rec is just a rec, and for others, it carries varying degrees of weight in actual selection.

Originally Posted by gee_ess

Maybe that is what is at play here. Some groups, as a whole, do not value alumnae recommendations. It is not the chapter, but the entire organization? This is something I really was not aware of and would make sense.

I wouldn't say it's the entire sorority that doesn't put much weight on recs, but certain chapters. Location/campus seems to heavily determine the importance (unless you're in a sorority which requires recs of all PNMs, regardless of the chapter). Generally speaking.

Another question: Do recs come into play during COB at schools where they weigh heavily during formal? I would guess that they wouldn't be required, but someone correct me if I'm wrong. And if a girl went through formal and was released (or she dropped out), would a rec be carried over to COB? *If this is venturing into membership selection, feel free to say so*

How about with colonizations? Are recs required? I know very little about even my own sorority's colonization process, so I'm curious as to what is done.

[irishpipes]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

I wouldn't say it's the entire sorority that doesn't put much weight on recs, but certain chapters. Location/campus seems to heavily determine the importance (unless you're in a sorority which requires recs of all PNMs, regardless of the chapter). Generally speaking.

Another question: Do recs come into play during COB at schools where they weigh heavily during formal? I would guess that they wouldn't be required, but someone correct me if I'm wrong. And if a girl went through formal and was released (or she dropped out), would a rec be carried over to COB? *If this is venturing into membership selection, feel free to say so*

How about with colonizations? Are recs required? I know very little about even my own sorority's colonization process, so I'm curious as to what is done.

Very recently a GC poster posted that her NPC doesn't even have a rec form. So, I would say it is very possible that some nationals don't value recs - they utilize other methods in their MS.

At many competitive schools, recs are used in COB and in many colonizations recs are used and even "required" just as much as they are in formal recruitment.

ETA: And no, recs are not "carried over" because groups destroy them after recruitment. (Maybe all of them don't. Ours did, so no new member could accidentally stumble upon them.)

[Titchou]

Originally Posted by irishpipes

At many competitive schools, recs are used in COB and in many colonizations recs are used and even "required" just as much as they are in formal recruitment.

This.

[AnchorAlumna]

Originally Posted by Titchou

...I would venture most NPC groups began with the requirement that all new members be sponsored/recommended by another - like most organizations/clubs who restrict membership do.

I have been told that this is necessary to maintain single sex status, according to federal requirements and/or guidelines.

If so, then anyone insisting that their sorority or chapter doesn't "do" recs or doesn't have to consider them may be a) not following the requirements of their group b)jeopardizing the group's single sex status.

Maybe I have this wrong?

Originally Posted by Hartofsec

I'm just not convinced that a Bama pledge class that is about 78% OOS is dependent on "proper SEC recs," since OOS alums are far less likely to be familiar with such local concept or culture.

I've seen plenty of "SEC quality" recs from non-SEC alumnae...not all, but a good many. Also seen a lot of "non-SEC quality" from SEC alums...it's not your conference, it's your training.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by AnchorAlumna

I have been told that this is necessary to maintain single sex status, according to federal requirements and/or guidelines.

If so, then anyone insisting that their sorority or chapter doesn't "do" recs or doesn't have to consider them may be a) not following the requirements of their group b)jeopardizing the group's single sex status.

Maybe I have this wrong?

I've seen plenty of "SEC quality" recs from non-SEC alumnae...not all, but a good many. Also seen a lot of "non-SEC quality" from SEC alums...it's not your conference, it's your training.

I don't think this is correct or maybe DG interprets this differently than other organizations do. AOII does NOT require a recommendation to be initiated. I know this for a fact. New Members are voted in by the group, so I think this is probably sufficient to maintain any single-sex status, exclusivity requirements mandated by the federal government.

[gee_ess]

I think this is what I take issue with...I really don't believe that there is that much difference between a good candidate for Kappa and a good candidate for DPhiE and a good candidate for Phi Mu, and so on

I agree. We are all looking for quality young women who will become quality members. Some groups take alumnae input into more consideration than others.

I've seen plenty of "SEC quality" recs from non-SEC alumnae...not all, but a good many. Also seen a lot of "non-SEC quality" from SEC alums...it's not your conference, it's your training.

Love this!

[DubaiSis]

My biggest problem with the "recs required" systems is it is patently unfair to anyone who grew up outside the south, and since students are traveling all across the US (and worldwide) to go to school, this seems like a step to limit the chances or increase the stress factor for the girl who isn't from a large'ish southern city who's mom wasn't a socialite.

My guess is, and for dog's sake don't take this to the bank, there ARE chapters in the deep south where recs are actually NOT required. But would I want it put on record that my sorority doesn't? Hell no. It would have the affect of saying we are less selective. Unless my sorority's MS system has changed dramatically, recs have a role, but I can't imagine that one element being enough on its own to get a girl cut unless she was low on the bubble anyway. And if I'm correct in this thinking (that they don't hold as much weight as we like to say), then I think stopping talking about it so much would be really really helpful. If it were possible to go back to only writing recs for girls who you personally know so that they were an actual leg up, then I'd be all for that. But while we keep saying they are absolutely positively, you not only aren't getting a bid but you might get kicked out of school and probably will never have friends in your whole life required, then girls will continue getting them for every chapter, regardless of how tedious or unhelpful.

[FSUZeta]

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

My biggest problem with the "recs required" systems is it is patently unfair to anyone who grew up outside the south, and since students are traveling all across the US (and worldwide) to go to school, this seems like a step to limit the chances or increase the stress factor for the girl who isn't from a large'ish southern city who's mom wasn't a socialite.

My guess is, and for dog's sake don't take this to the bank, there ARE chapters in the deep south where recs are actually NOT required. But would I want it put on record that my sorority doesn't? Hell no. It would have the affect of saying we are less selective. Unless my sorority's MS system has changed dramatically, recs have a role, but I can't imagine that one element being enough on its own to get a girl cut unless she was low on the bubble anyway. And if I'm correct in this thinking (that they don't hold as much weight as we like to say), then I think stopping talking about it so much would be really really helpful. If it were possible to go back to only writing recs for girls who you personally know so that they were an actual leg up, then I'd be all for that. But while we keep saying they are absolutely positively, you not only aren't getting a bid but you might get kicked out of school and probably will never have friends in your whole life required, then girls will continue getting them for every chapter, regardless of how tedious or unhelpful.

We say this because at the schools we have noted in another thread, for a PNM to be in the driver's seat (as much as she can) they ARE a must. It doesn't matter if you think they are bogus and unnecessary, it doesn't matter if I think they are unnecessary, the fact is that they ARE. If they are not needed, and in some cases not even recognized, at other schools, then the PNM does not have to worry herself obtaining them. For the most part, PNM classes at the large, southern schools are ginormous, and recs. are required, and enough girls think it is worth the effort that they comply. If they didn't, I think the #'s registered for recruitment would not continue to rise, as they have been.

It's like someone thinking that references for college admission or a job are stupid and unnecessary. After all, the person conducting the interview should know enough to make a good decision based on the actual interview and the applicants transcript and resume'. Yet applicants are still expected to supply both for any professional job they fill out an application for and if they don't, woe to them.

I guess what I am trying to say is, most sororities up north haven't seen a recommendation and don't know what to do with them(from what has been reported here on GC), and that's okay. I am not going to tell them that they are wrong. But if a PNM is headed south, and especially if she is attending a large university that has a competitive recruitment, she had better invest some time and round up at least one recommendation for each chapter on campus. If that chapter doesn't want to use the rec., they can shred it. But it is better to be prepared than to be sorry later.

I would add that for some sororities, it is a national requirement that each new member have a rec. before she participates in the formal pledging ceremony.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by AGDee

Even deeper than that though... girls don't have recs up here because they have no clue that they might want to go through recruitment until they're at school, see the Greek tables at the student org fairs, go to some Meet the Greek events around campus to get the free food and then say "Hey, that looks like it might be fun to do" three days before recruitment starts. They don't sign up 4 months in advance and move into the dorms early. If they did, nobody would be there. They show up to orientation and register. When would they possibly get recs? Being greek is rarely on their radar before they get to school.

Exactly. I think I may have posted something similar to this earlier in the thread. It's just not the same up north as it is down south. In many cases, the word "sorority" doesn't enter a girl's vocabulary until she's at least a few weeks into her freshmen year of college.

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

It's like someone thinking that references for college admission or a job are stupid and unnecessary. After all, the person conducting the interview should know enough to make a good decision based on the actual interview and the applicants transcript and resume'. Yet applicants are still expected to supply both for any professional job they fill out an application for and if they don't, woe to them.

I wouldn't consider this exactly the same. When obtaining recommendations to attend school or to get a job, you're soliciting those recommendations from people you know and from people who know you. On the other hand, in some cases, PNMs are obtaining recs to join a sorority from people they've never even met before.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

I wouldn't consider this exactly the same. When obtaining recommendations to attend school or to get a job, you're soliciting those recommendations from people you know and from people who know you. On the other hand, in some cases, PNMs are obtaining recs to join a sorority from people they've never even met before.

I think the point was more "you have to do some homework", and that's fine, but one of the very worst things about recs, IMO, is that PNM's who aren't in the know are constantly told they do NOT have to obtain them.

[FSUMAMA]

[QUOTE=DubaiSis;2204311]My biggest problem with the "recs required" systems is it is patently unfair to anyone who grew up outside the south, and since students are traveling all across the US (and worldwide) to go to school, this seems like a step to limit the chances or increase the stress factor for the girl who isn't from a large'ish southern city who's mom wasn't a socialite. QUOTE]

My daugther was the northern girl. She grew up in the way north, in a non-greek family, and with very little influence from friends who joined the greek community. She chose to attend a southern school with a very active greek life. She was entering recruitment as a sophomore, as she studied abroad her freshman year and was coming to campus for the first time to live. She has a very high GPA and is an attractive girl with a good resume.

We were oblivious to the process. She went through recruitment this past fall with one "known" rec submitted and it came from a close family friend and was beautifully written. We had NO idea what was truly necessary. Once she started the recruitment process, she was shocked and concerned as she learned that she needed a 'rec' from every sorority in order to be invited back, and to ultimately recieve a bid. The school is apparently known for this. In fact, it was apparent that these girls prepare for and look forward to this week for a very long time. The good news is, she was invited back to everyone of her picks, each day with a full schedule, with the exception of one (which happened to be where her letter of rec came from). We have since been told that while she did not submit letters, that the sororities may have, very well, obtained recs for her. She obtained a bid from a top tier sorority on campus.

She is so happy with her sorority and understands that she was fortunate. I guess this is the Cinderella story of an northern girl without a req., but if she did, indeed, have letters written for her that were requested by the sorority, how much do these letters truly mean?

[amIblue?]

[QUOTE=FSUMAMA;2206569]

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

My biggest problem with the "recs required" systems is it is patently unfair to anyone who grew up outside the south, and since students are traveling all across the US (and worldwide) to go to school, this seems like a step to limit the chances or increase the stress factor for the girl who isn't from a large'ish southern city who's mom wasn't a socialite. QUOTE]

My daugther was the northern girl. She grew up in the way north, in a non-greek family, and with very little influence from friends who joined the greek community. She chose to attend a southern school with a very active greek life. She was entering recruitment as a sophomore, as she studied abroad her freshman year and was coming to campus for the first time to live. She has a very high GPA and is an attractive girl with a good resume.

We were oblivious to the process. She went through recruitment this past fall with one "known" rec submitted and it came from a close family friend and was beautifully written. We had NO idea what was truly necessary. Once she started the recruitment process, she was shocked and concerned as she learned that she needed a 'rec' from every sorority in order to be invited back, and to ultimately recieve a bid. The school is apparently known for this. In fact, it was apparent that these girls prepare for and look forward to this week for a very long time. The good news is, she was invited back to everyone of her picks, each day with a full schedule, with the exception of one (which happened to be where her letter of rec came from). We have since been told that while she did not submit letters, that the sororities may have, very well, obtained recs for her. She obtained a bid from a top tier sorority on campus.

She is so happy with her sorority and understands that she was fortunate. I guess this is the Cinderella story of an northern girl without a req., but if she did, indeed, have letters written for her that were requested by the sorority, how much do these letters truly mean?

My guess is that you truly have one special snowflake if she got a "top tier" bid as a sophomore with no recs at FSU.

[thetalady]

Originally Posted by FSUMAMA

I guess this is the Cinderella story of an northern girl without a req., but if she did, indeed, have letters written for her that were requested by the sorority, how much do these letters truly mean?

Our point and the reason that we try so hard to get girls to get recs on their own is that this could have turned out completely differently for your daughter. Had the chapters NOT been able to get a rec for her, had they run out of time, had it been easier for them to find recs on OTHER girls, etc., then your daughter could have easily gone bidless. Better to keep as much of the process in your own hands than leave it to others to do the work.

[FSUMAMA]

Originally Posted by thetalady

Our point and the reason that we try so hard to get girls to get recs on their own is that this could have turned out completely differently for your daughter. Had the chapters NOT been able to get a rec for her, had they run out of time, had it been easier for them to find recs on OTHER girls, etc., then your daughter could have easily gone bidless. Better to keep as much of the process in your own hands than leave it to others to do the work.

I understand what you are saying. As I said, we were oblivious to the entire process and had no idea. She did not come there with the attitude that she didn't need them, she just didn't know, as she was from the north and living in another country her first year (which, even if she did know, would have been close to impossible to contact people for letters). We now know what is necessary and we also know that she was fortunate to get into her sorority. You'll be happy to know... she is a Theta. I have another daughter going through recruitment this next year. Believe me, she will have letters. We understand the process now. In addition, this forum has opened our eyes to a lot of the process... wish we had found it earlier. It is very useful.

[thetalady]

You are right... I am thrilled to hear that she is a Theta So glad that it worked out well for her and she is happy!