Private Pool Bans Minority Campers - Page 8

Taualumna · #**106** 07-13-2009, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

Apples meet Oranges...

I am sorry, I am unable to connect those dots. What does this have to do joining a country/yacht club?

I've already said I am not a member of one. So what can I add to their membership process?

So you're saying that clubs should take anyone, as long as they can pay?

deepimpact2 · #**107** 07-13-2009, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin

Why is it staggering? How do you know? You don't.

You simply assume that if a person of color applies to a country club and is rejected, it was because of race. You don't know that to be true. It could be because no one knows the person's family. It could be because of some professional squabble. Could be anything. But for whatever reason, you hone in on race. Not everything is about race.

Of course this is ALWAYS the excuse.

I wonder why this excuse is never used when people are accusing blacks of getting into a school based on AA instead of their credentials? How do they KNOW it is AA?

This type of excuse is absurd because you can simply look at the history of the club. If they have NO black members or only one or two, then that's clue right there. Not to mention the fact that you can look at the credentials of the blacks who apply and make a comparison to the credentials of those who are already members. Earl Graves was turned down for membership by an all-white club. Based on my understanding, Earl Graves had credentials that actually surpassed those of some people who were already members. Whether membership is subjective or not, if you have someone who se excellent credentials and who can clearly more than afford to pay any dues, if that person is black and the club doesn't have any other black members, you can pretty much bet the rejection was because they were black.

I would never try to join that type of organization. And sometimes I know they will allow one or two blacks that are considered to be the "good negroes" for purposes of trying to say they aren't racist. Then in many cases they will put severe limits on the membership benefits that can be enjoyed by these members.

You should read "Member of the Club" by Lawrence Otis Graham.

deepimpact2 · #**108** 07-13-2009, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taualumna

But it's not only about the ability to pay. It's about fit as well. Do you want Britney Spears as a member in a club (well, back in her crazy days, anyway)? Britney may be in the spotlight, but there are people LIKE her who aren't. And yes, someone can write a bad ref letter for you.

And it just so happens that NO black people "fit?" LMAO right.

AKA_Monet · #**109** 07-13-2009, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taualumna

So you're saying that clubs should take anyone, as long as they can pay?

LOL! Seriously, you'd think I wrote Holy Biblical scripture with all that inference added!

Taualumna · #**110** 07-13-2009, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

And it just so happens that NO black people "fit?" LMAO right.

You don't know that...and what if no black people seek membership?

starang21 · #**111** 07-13-2009, 05:58 PM

these are private clubs, correct?

Kevin · #**112** 07-13-2009, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

You should read "Member of the Club" by Lawrence Otis Graham.

http://thisrecording.com/books/2009/...st-be-new.html

Read the preview. Seems like an intriguing book. Based on what I heard there, assuming I had the social standing to qualify to join that place, I wouldn't choose to cast my lot with them. The behavior of those members and the management of the club was, IMHO, disgraceful.

As to the Earl Graves, Sr. issue, again, even there, we don't know what happened behind closed doors. For all any of us knows, he wasn't selected because he's a Democrat or because his magazine published something someone didn't like. I, like you, don't have a hard time guessing that race was a major factor, but I don't know that for sure.

Quote:

I would never try to join that type of organization. And sometimes I know they will allow one or two blacks that are considered to be the "good negroes" for purposes of trying to say they aren't racist. Then in many cases they will put severe limits on the membership benefits that can be enjoyed by these members.

All I can say is that not all private clubs are the same. If you feel your a token admission, you may be. On the other hand, you could simply be the first well qualified AA person to apply.

The same advice we give to aspirants of our various organizations applies in this scenario as well: Do your research.

DaemonSeid · #**113** 07-13-2009, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

How come my career interactions have to come into play when requesting joining? It could be anything and it could be honed into race...

Net work ing

rhoyaltempest · #**114** 07-13-2009, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin

But you don't know that it's not not true. As far as judging your family, career interactions, etc., that's probably not going to happen at a lot of places, but some clubs are only able to keep their membership fees at a certain level and paying members because those members want the prestige of belonging to a highly selective organization. At some of these places, absolutely everything is under the microscope. And typically, belonging will have positive impact on your business opportunities, etc. Other places are just happy to have anyone as a member.

Well, it hasn't even been established that the rejection for these kids was racially motivated. That's an inference you can definitely draw from what was said, but it's hardly the only conclusion you can reach. I'm not giving my blessing to racism by any means. I'm just saying that there's not a hell of a lot that can be done about it when it's not overt and express.

Why else would anyone give back nearly $2000 AFTER seeing new faces??? This case is certifiable.

rhoyaltempest · #**115** 07-13-2009, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin

Why is it staggering? How do you know? You don't.

You simply assume that if a person of color applies to a country club and is rejected, it was because of race. You don't know that to be true. It could be because no one knows the person's family. It could be because of some professional squabble. Could be anything. But for whatever reason, you hone in on race. Not everything is about race.

You also have to consider the racial climate of the community in which the club is located. Given the racial climate in SOME parts of PA. (where I currently reside and have most of my life...and in different parts of PA.), assuming that racism played a part is not a stretch of the imagination at all and anyone who's lived for a long time in the burbs of PA. or better yet, in upstate/rural PA. (where racism can be really bad) knows exactly what I mean.

AKA_Monet · #**116** 07-13-2009, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Net work ing

DS, I respectfully disagree in this day and age. Back in the day that was true.

Networking is critical today, but how these days? In the Twitterverse? LOL!

rhoyaltempest · #**117** 07-13-2009, 08:04 PM

I have read remarks here about private clubs being able to do what they want and that's true but they shouldn't then open their doors to the public. Club management was money hungry obviously and opened its doors to public day camps. You can't expect to keep things exclusive and with a specific atmosphere when you do that and I'm sure management knew where this day camp was located and it was not located in their suburban town. They probably changed their minds only after they received complaints from members (and I'm sure there were complaints); who probably threatened to cancel their memberships if the children stayed. You do not just up and decide to return nearly $2000.

If they wish to keep a certain "atmosphere," they should only take day camps in certain areas (and even then there might be a few black kids since some blacks do live in these communities...although the "tokens" are probably okay) or only allow the children/relatives of club members to swim.

AKA_Monet · #**118** 07-13-2009, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

I have read remarks here about private clubs being able to do what they want and that's true but they shouldn't then open their doors to the public.

@bolded. Technically, I wonder how much of imminent domain plays a role in this? The club still uses municipalities to serve its needs, as I understand it, the privacy is contingent on the ability of the club to charge fees for grounds maintenance or moorings. And if they have a restaurant, they still have to follow the public health code. They still pay property taxes and if they are non-profit they cannot be classified as fully rejection exclusive, especially to children.

It brings to meaning: "This ain't your granddaddy's country club anymore... Grow up and be in the 21st century!"

What we are witnessing is severe growing pains to human evolution, IMHO...

DaemonSeid · #**119** 07-13-2009, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

DS, I respectfully disagree in this day and age. Back in the day that was true.

Networking is critical today, but how these days? In the Twitterverse? LOL!

LOL...and I really don't use twitter...

When I mean networking...it's not always in the conventional sense...some 'clubs' and groups still like to be able to 'self segregate' so they can let their hair down...why not?

KSigkid · #**120** 07-13-2009, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

@bolded. Technically, I wonder how much of imminent domain plays a role in this? The club still uses municipalities to serve its needs, as I understand it, the privacy is contingent on the ability of the club to charge fees for grounds maintenance or moorings. And if they have a restaurant, they still have to follow the public health code. They still pay property taxes and if they are non-profit they cannot be classified as fully rejection exclusive, especially to children.

I think you're combining different concepts here. As far as emminent domain, I highly doubt that a local government would take over a piece of property because of a private group's allegedly discriminatory practices.

As to the rest, those are tenuous ties to government services; too tenuous, in my opinion, to allow the government to come in and enforce certain regulations.