Hurricane season '08

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by CrackerBarrel

Or really a necessity. I agree that I would like to have ice too if I had no power, but in the grand scheme of things I would rather FEMA concentrate on things you can't do without.

It also seems a little weird that people locally aren't running gas powered generators to produce ice in big ice makers (like the kinds in commercial kitchens) or that sites with this capacity, with back up generators, aren't doing more to make ice available.

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

I understand that you are frustrated and I wish you every comfort in the world, but it's strange as hell to see ice as a federal responsibility.
ETA: not so much you personally, but that our expectations have come to this.

Here's why I'm upset - we don't have ice because we don't have electricity. It's kinda necessary to make ice in Texas. FEMA is responsible for bringing commodities in - given that some need ice for medication, and everyone needs ice to keep food from spoiling, it is just odd that FEMA would accept responsibility for food, water, but not ice. Heck, I'd be happy if they would just get ice to those who need it for their medications. We are being alerted to a health crisis - spoiling food.
Luckily, local stores are stepping up and helping out. I am personally fortunate and have power. Many, many more are not. The moral of the story is - when the chips are down, don't count on FEMA.

Given FEMAs past performance, I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Watching FEMA reps blaming the local government was like deja vu all over again. Maybe it wouldn't bother me if they were doing a better job of getting food and water (which I would consider necessary) to those who need it.I'm watching the good people of Surfside, who have yet to see anyone from FEMA. The Salvation Army got there, though.

A County Judge got involved when a bottleneck developed with distribution this morning - thank God. But there is a shortage of gas, and a problem that is coming to light now is those who cannot get gas cannot get to the PODs to get supplies. I don't know the answer to that one.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Here's why I'm upset - we don't have ice because we don't have electricity. It's kinda necessary to make ice in Texas. FEMA is responsible for bringing commodities in - given that some need ice for medication, and everyone needs ice to keep food from spoiling, it is just odd that FEMA would accept responsibility for food, water, but not ice. Heck, I'd be happy if they would just get ice to those who need it for their medications. We are being alerted to a health crisis - spoiling food.
Luckily, local stores are stepping up and helping out. I am personally fortunate and have power. Many, many more are not. The moral of the story is - when the chips are down, don't count on FEMA.

Given FEMAs past performance, I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Watching FEMA reps blaming the local government was like deja vu all over again. Maybe it wouldn't bother me if they were doing a better job of getting food and water (which I would consider necessary) to those who need it.I'm watching the good people of Surfside, who have yet to see anyone from FEMA. The Salvation Army got there, though.

A County Judge got involved when a bottleneck developed with distribution this morning - thank God. But there is a shortage of gas, and a problem that is coming to light now is those who cannot get gas cannot get to the PODs to get supplies. I don't know the answer to that one.

Do you think it would be reasonable for FEMA to supply ice?

Bases on your experience, does it seem like something they could do, like do they have enough trucks coming into the area that they could bring in enough refrigerated ice trucks to be able to handle the demand? Why do you suppose they don't take the responsibility? I'm being completely sincere, not being snarky at all.

It does seem to me that it makes sense for any local business with the ability to provide ice to do what they can.
And it seems like local hospitals, that I think all have back up generators, could help with ice for people who needed it for meds. But someone would need to communicate all this to people before the power went out and might even need a way to deliver it to some of the people who needed it and couldn't travel.

I suspect that local and state officials have no idea about what FEMA will or won't do until it's too late to come up with a good local plan and most members of the public don't either.

My relatives along the gulf coast all have back up generators, some wired into the house completely, but they've got the money to and the frequency of storms to make it seem like a good investment.

It's hard to figure out what might be comparable where I am, but I don't even have canned goods to last the amount of time that you've been carrying on after Ike.

[Kevlar281]

FEMA is a lot like the Soviet Union. You get in line wait for hours not knowing what they will have when you get to the front of the line. Sometimes you get ice, sometimes you get water, sometimes you get MREs and sometimes you get nothing.

[SWTXBelle]

I do think it reasonable for FEMA to have a plan to get ice to those who need it - whether that means coordinating with local officials, or doing it themselves. They are the professionals - local authorities have limited experience with this level of disaster. You have to really go back to Alicia (1983) or Carla (1961) to get to a comparable situation. Since the whole reason for existence for FEMA is to come into this type of situation I do not think it unreasonable to expect them to consider something as vital as ice.
But let us accept your argument that FEMA should not have anything to do with ice. FEMA doesn't do ice. Why can't they handle getting food and water to those in need? Why are our citizens waiting in lines, only to be turned away empty handed? Why are some communities still waiting for any sign of FEMA? FEMA knew the storm was coming - had days to prepare - and still it is unable to coordinate its response.

eta - and lest you think I'm letting the local officials off the hook - the catatrophe that was the Look and Leave Program in Galveston is a prime example of good intentions that result in a bad outcome.

http://www.khou.com/topstories/stori....8238069e.html I'm afraid it will be much higher than 17 in Texas when all is said and done. Hope I'm wrong.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

I do think it reasonable for FEMA to have a plan to get ice to those who need it - whether that means coordinating with local officials, or doing it themselves. They are the professionals - local authorities have limited experience with this level of disaster. You have to really go back to Alicia (1983) or Carla (1961) to get to a comparable situation. Since the whole reason for existence for FEMA is to come into this type of situation I do not think it unreasonable to expect them to consider something as vital as ice.
But let us accept your argument that FEMA should not have anything to do with ice. FEMA doesn't do ice. Why can't they handle getting food and water to those in need? Why are our citizens waiting in lines, only to be turned away empty handed? Why are some communities still waiting for any sign of FEMA? FEMA knew the storm was coming - had days to prepare - and still it is unable to coordinate its response.

eta - and lest you think I'm letting the local officials off the hook - the catatrophe that was the Look and Leave Program in Galveston is a prime example of good intentions that result in a bad outcome.

http://www.khou.com/topstories/stori....8238069e.html I'm afraid it will be much higher than 17 in Texas when all is said and done. Hope I'm wrong.

I bet you have professionals locally at the state level too. They don't have the experience that FEMA would, granted, but someone was probably given, as a matter of professional responsibilities, the task of developing emergency plans at the state level.

I actually have no opinion about ice particularly, but I wonder why they don't commit to providing it. I tend to think there's a reason why they leave that to the local gov. My guess is that it's complicated to transport in from other areas and they can't guarantee they can produce enough locally by generating power and bringing in ice makers to meet the needs of an unpredictable number of people and the rate that some people would need/want it.

My personally bottom line is that I just don't think that anyone expecting aid or rescue from a Federal domestic agency is ever going to be entirely pleased with the results, and we seem to have moved past a point where insuring immediate survival in the short term is the expectation of services. The best hope we have is state and local. We should recognize the limits of what FEMA can do and cut it back to what it can competently deliver and let states use whatever funding went to FEMA to develop better systems. (Actually, I think FEMA makes the most sense just delivering insurance and money for recovery after the fact.)

Have you heard anything about what FEMA intends to do for housing for the people displaced in Galveston since they resolved not to ever use trailers again? I've been wondering what the plan was.

[carnation]

I wish that the hospitals could have gotten some ice for their morgues but no. My sister finally found a funeral home with a generator that could take my uncle's body (it was at the hospital with no power for 2 days, I don't want to think about that) and the place is down at the Ship Channel. We told her to take a guard with her tomorrow when she goes to plan the obituary and shipment of his body to Austin for burial. They don't know when they can get it there, maybe this weekend, but since our daughter's wedding is this weekend--we'll miss the funeral.

Funny how something like this hurricane can change everything. He had his whole funeral plan made out and paid for and now he's not at that place and his plans are all messed up. Our aunt died during the tropical storm in July but at least the storm didn't majorly interfere with her burial.

We are devastated by the destruction of Crystal Beach but this is so much worse.

Sorry for the long rant but it seems that as often as Houston gets hit by storms, the hospitals and funeral homes would have had backup power plans.

[AGDee]

Generators run on fuel, which cannot be bought if there is no power. After 4 days, people will be running out of fuel. You can only stockpile so much fuel during a ferocious storm because it's not really safe to have large amounts on hand.

I seem to recall them passing out dry ice after previous disasters. I can't believe they aren't doing that.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by carnation

I wish that the hospitals could have gotten some ice for their morgues but no. My sister finally found a funeral home with a generator that could take my uncle's body (it was at the hospital with no power for 2 days, I don't want to think about that) and the place is down at the Ship Channel. We told her to take a guard with her tomorrow when she goes to plan the obituary and shipment of his body to Austin for burial. They don't know when they can get it there, maybe this weekend, but since our daughter's wedding is this weekend--we'll miss the funeral.

Funny how something like this hurricane can change everything. He had his whole funeral plan made out and paid for and now he's not at that place and his plans are all messed up. Our aunt died during the tropical storm in July but at least the storm didn't majorly interfere with her burial.

We are devastated by the destruction of Crystal Beach but this is so much worse.

Sorry for the long rant but it seems that as often as Houston gets hit by storms, the hospitals and funeral homes would have had backup power plans.

Originally Posted by AGDee

Generators run on fuel, which cannot be bought if there is no power. After 4 days, people will be running out of fuel. You can only stockpile so much fuel during a ferocious storm because it's not really safe to have large amounts on hand.

I seem to recall them passing out dry ice after previous disasters. I can't believe they aren't doing that.

Don't hospital generators typically use a secondary source of fuel that would either be supplied on site from a continuing source like a natural gas line or with huge fuel tanks that would safely store a lot of fuel? Obviously this doesn't help if the hospital is actually hit by the storm, but when you're thinking of a building that's basically intact, but simply without outside power. . .

Carnation, I'm really sorry about your uncle and the circumstance with the funeral homes have got to compound an already difficult situation. (Your sister must be a strong woman.) I hope your daughter's wedding is beautiful and is a joyful and healing time for your family.

[AlphaSigOU]

It's taking some time for disaster relief agencies to get fully ramped up in the wake of Ike. Power's being restored slowly and water pressure may be too low to properly operate the water treatment plants in the area. Don't forget that the Houston area is the largest metro area in Texas. Some areas planned ahead and are not doing too bad, other areas are knocked down flat.

I finally got called up to disaster relief duty for Civil Air Patrol this weekend. Again, it took 'em time to get things up and running.

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

I bet you have professionals locally at the state level too. They don't have the experience that FEMA would, granted, but someone was probably given, as a matter of professional responsibilities, the task of developing emergency plans at the state level.

I actually have no opinion about ice particularly, but I wonder why they don't commit to providing it. I tend to think there's a reason why they leave that to the local gov. My guess is that it's complicated to transport in from other areas and they can't guarantee they can produce enough locally by generating power and bringing in ice makers to meet the needs of an unpredictable number of people and the rate that some people would need/want it.

My personally bottom line is that I just don't think that anyone expecting aid or rescue from a Federal domestic agency is ever going to be entirely pleased with the results, and we seem to have moved past a point where insuring immediate survival in the short term is the expectation of services. The best hope we have is state and local. We should recognize the limits of what FEMA can do and cut it back to what it can competently deliver and let states use whatever funding went to FEMA to develop better systems. (Actually, I think FEMA makes the most sense just delivering insurance and money for recovery after the fact.)

Have you heard anything about what FEMA intends to do for housing for the people displaced in Galveston since they resolved not to ever use trailers again? I've been wondering what the plan was.

I'll do some research into what Texas has at the state level - but I'd think that if they had anyone they would have been part of the press conferences they've been having, and I've only seen Gov. Perry and his representatives. The problem is that, as I've stated before, this type of disaster seems to happen about every 20 years. It's not reasonable, IMHO, to expect a state agency to be in place day in, day out, with the appropriate funding, etc., for something that will happen once every 20 years. The Federal government, however, can count on tornadoes, earthquakes, hurricanes and tropical storm each and every year.

I'd be more than happy to disband FEMA if the states can then have the monies. But my ancestors fought that war over 140 years ago, and they lost. I don't see it happening. I do think it is not to much to expect a federal agency to fulfil their mission. Maybe it is asking too much - but especially after Katrina I would have thought FEMA would be ready, willing and able to handle the aftermath of a hurricane. And I'd be more willing to accept the limitations FEMA might have if they didn't seem to be playing CYA at the press conferences. Give it to us straight - say you don't have enough food, or water, say you are having trouble getting gas for the deliveries, say the area is too widespread to easily get supplies out, but don't say "Not our job!" and then punt it to the locals.

As I said, local entities are having their own troubles. I know this type of mission will never go 100% smoothly. Heck, my brother has yet to go home from his police station, and they are now responsible for feeding themselves. Quite a trick when you are in a city without electricity.

Carnation, I am so sorry for the continuing trama of your uncle's passing. I pray that things go more smoothly for you and your family. I hope the wedding is a beautiful time of family togetherness for you.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

Don't hospital generators typically use a secondary source of fuel that would either be supplied on site from a continuing source like a natural gas line or with huge fuel tanks that would safely store a lot of fuel? Obviously this doesn't help if the hospital is actually hit by the storm, but when you're thinking of a building that's basically intact, but simply without outside power. . .

Carnation, I'm really sorry about your uncle and the circumstance with the funeral homes have got to compound an already difficult situation. (Your sister must be a strong woman.) I hope your daughter's wedding is beautiful and is a joyful and healing time for your family.

I was posting about personal generators at people's homes. (I was typing while you were posting about the hospitals and carnation about the funeral homes)

That said, we had a rude awakening within my health system when we had the Blackout of 2003. About 10 minutes after the power went out and the emergency lights went on, the emergency lights went out too. Turns out, our building's generator runs on water pressure. With a power outage that large, water pumping stations stop running and there is no water pressure. It was really a mess, a whole building evacuating using stairwells with not a solitary ray of light available. The brilliant security guards in our building thought they would light up the stairwell with huge flashlights, from the ground. So, as you looked down to find the next step, you were blinded by a flashlight. NOW, every person in the building has a battery free flashlight (the kind you shake) and there are battery operated emergency lights in the stairwells. Sometimes you don't know what's going to fail until it happens.

ETA: Luckily, that was at corporate headquarters, the hospital had a better backup system.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

I'll do some research into what Texas has at the state level - but I'd think that if they had anyone they would have been part of the press conferences they've been having, and I've only seen Gov. Perry and his representatives. The problem is that, as I've stated before, this type of disaster seems to happen about every 20 years. It's not reasonable, IMHO, to expect a state agency to be in place day in, day out, with the appropriate funding, etc., for something that will happen once every 20 years. The Federal government, however, can count on tornadoes, earthquakes, hurricanes and tropical storm each and every year.

I'd be more than happy to disband FEMA if the states can then have the monies. But my ancestors fought that war over 140 years ago, and they lost. I don't see it happening. I do think it is not to much to expect a federal agency to fulfil their mission. Maybe it is asking too much - but especially after Katrina I would have thought FEMA would be ready, willing and able to handle the aftermath of a hurricane. And I'd be more willing to accept the limitations FEMA might have if they didn't seem to be playing CYA at the press conferences. Give it to us straight - say you don't have enough food, or water, say you are having trouble getting gas for the deliveries, say the area is too widespread to easily get supplies out, but don't say "Not our job!" and then punt it to the locals.

As I said, local entities are having their own troubles. I know this type of mission will never go 100% smoothly. Heck, my brother has yet to go home from his police station, and they are now responsible for feeding themselves. Quite a trick when you are in a city without electricity.

Yeah, I really don't know, but it seems like our expectations are higher than ever and it's going to be really hard to do a good job meeting them.

Natural disasters are obviously horrible and catastrophic, and you may be onto something about how we can't expect states to handle them when they are of this scale. Maybe the problem is at least a much the failure of the local, state and federal programs to plan and work together.

I'm sorry you (and everyone else affected) are going through this and I hope that you get the things you need from someone soon.

[SWTXBelle]

I think that it is interesting that there are taxpayers who feel it is "unreasonable" to ask a federal agency to do the very job they were formed and continue to be funded to do. If FEMA is not to deliver aid in the immediate aftermath of a natural disaster, what is it they are supposed to do with that big 'ol budget of theirs?

I ventured into Houston for the first time today. I had to laugh - you know how in college everyone asks "What's your major?". At the Houston Zoo today, everyone asked "Do you have electricity?". We are so thrilled to have something that is borderline "normal" - and to be able to fight the cabin fever and go to the Zoo (even though several exhibits are not yet up and running) was a real blessing. I saw lots of PowerPoint trucks out there, and my friend who lost his box actually got an electrician to show. Blue tarps dot the landscape, and fences are more likely to be down than up, about 40% of Houstonians have power now. Gas is a little easier to find - but lots of stations are still closed.

[AGDee]

I heard on the radio last night that a tiger had escaped from somewhere and was roaming around Galveston Island, hungry. They said they were avoiding him.