The Devil's Advocate: Imus/Rap industry

[Honeykiss1974]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Well, I don't think the black community should "do" anything. My comments on a potential double standard aside, I personally am not that concerned with the music itself.

However, regardless of consumerism, I think that significant segment of black culture does glorify some of the "statuses" in rap music. Thats where the problem lies (white people do it to, but I think its more pervasive in the black community), the ideal situation is if people could enjoy rap, but not let its message have such a profound impact on popular culture.

I'm not really that concerned with the degradation of women/violence aspect of rap (I mean, I don't like it, but I haven't personally seen any effects of it). What I do see though, is simply irresponsible living. Its not just rap, its popular culture at large, but the rap "culture", if you will, makes a substantial contribution to it.

Shinerbock, if your issue is with "the lifestyle of excess", rap culture HARDLY makes a substantial contribution to it. Does it contribute to it - yes, but its not the only influential factor. It didn't in the 80's and it doesn't now. If anything, rap (as well as other entertainers) are trendsetters - which can change in an instant.

What contributes to it now is the fact that we have 24/7 coverage of what I like to call "the hollywood lifestyle" and the fact that corporations/advertisers convince us that it is possible for regular people to live like Paris Hilton (or insert the name of the latest celeb ). They convince us that we you can and should have the $500 sunglasses, the Prada bag, drive the Mercedes E-Class and wear the designer clothes all on a teacher's salary. That lifestyle isn't something that is not attainable anymore, but is available to every regular person nowadays - so go for it.

...and because we are saturated with the celebrity lifestyle/news each and everyday, most people swallow the bait.

It's like the "keeping up with the jones" mentality but flashier.

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by Honeykiss1974

Shinerbock, if your issue is with "the lifestyle of excess", rap culture HARDLY makes a substantial contribution to it. Does it contribute to it - yes, but its not the only influential factor. It didn't in the 80's and it doesn't now. If anything, rap (as well as other entertainers) are trendsetters - which can change in an instant.

What contributes to it now is the fact that we have 24/7 coverage of what I like to call "the hollywood lifestyle" and the fact that corporations/advertisers convince us that it is possible for regular people to live like Paris Hilton (or insert the name of the latest celeb ). They convince us that we you can and should have the $500 sunglasses, the Prada bag, drive the Mercedes E-Class and wear the designer clothes all on a teacher's salary. That lifestyle isn't something that is not attainable anymore, but is available to every regular person nowadays - so go for it.

...and because we are saturated with the celebrity lifestyle/news each and everyday, most people swallow the bait.

It's like the "keeping up with the jones" mentality but flashier.

I don't think its insignificant at all, I think rap has plenty to do with that, especially among guys. I think theres a pretty significant blending of rap and Hollywood, and frankly most guys aren't out there going "man, I wanna be a balla like Ryan Phillipe". Also, that culture has blended even more so with sports than Hollywood. With girls, I definitely think you're right, though, about Hollywood.

I know I don't see everything that goes on in the country, but I just don't see as many white people saying "damn i gotta be like Colin Ferrell" and drinking what he does and dressing like he dresses. I'm absolutely positive it happens, but from my perspective, I see a whole lot more black people emulating the rap/sports lifestyle than I do white people trying to live up to Hollywood standards. As a disclaimer, I think part of the reason behind this is that the lavish lifestyles that black men try to emulate are often more apparent. I can't always spot Ferragamo, but I can easily identify escalades with chrome.

[Honeykiss1974]

I live/work in a predominately white environment and I know PLENTY of people that try to live the "hollywood lifestyle" on their paycheck. It as commonplace as air.

Anyway, we could discuss our personal experiences all day, but I feel its really an insignificant tangent.

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by Honeykiss1974

I live/work in a predominately white environment and I know PLENTY of people that try to live the "hollywood lifestyle" on their paycheck. It as commonplace as air.

Anyway, we could discuss our personal experiences all day, but I feel its really an insignificant tangent.

I don't doubt that they do. My only contention with you is regarding your opinion that the rap culture is insignificant when it pertains to popular culture and that type of irresponsibility.

[DSTCHAOS]

The "American Dream" is all about excess. That's why the average American is a paycheck from bankruptcy or poverty. People confuse income with wealth and assume that a middle to upper middle class income means something. Then you also have a large percentage of the population that is working poor or at the poverty line.

So if white people want to sit around talking about the black community and this supposed culture that the rap industry is fueling, remember that all forms of entertainment (literature, music, art...) are the result of the society that breeds it. Every type of music (in various societies in this world) has misogyny and excess. It's just manifested differently. That's not to say there isn't room for change, but the black community has been arguing change long before C. Delores Tucker took on hip hop. So spare us the song and dance, white people and easily-swayed black people.

As for the childish "you all do it, so why look at us for doing it" game, the ever-so-wonderful Tim Wise has an excellent piece out in which he repeats everything that blacks have been saying for years. But of course since Wise is a white man, people will assume he's unemotional and learned enough to be paid attention:
http://blog.qusan.com/2007/04/tim-wi...n-on-imus.html

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

The "American Dream" is all about excess. That's why the average American is a paycheck from bankruptcy or poverty. People confuse income with wealth and assume that a middle to upper middle class income means something. Then you also have a large percentage of the population that is working poor or at the poverty line.

So if white people want to sit around talking about the black community and this supposed culture that the rap industry is fueling, remember that all forms of entertainment (literature, music, art...) are the result of the society that breeds it. Every type of music (in various societies in this world) has misogyny and excess. It's just manifested differently. That's not to say there isn't room for change, but the black community has been arguing change long before C. Delores Tucker took on hip hop. So spare us the song and dance, white people and easily-swayed black people.

As for the childish "you all do it, so why look at us for doing it" game, the ever-so-wonderful Tim Wise has an excellent piece out in which he repeats everything that blacks have been saying for years. But of course since Wise is a white man, people will assume he's unemotional and learned enough to be paid attention:
http://blog.qusan.com/2007/04/tim-wi...n-on-imus.html

Read the "article", laughable, at best.

The best thing to take away from this blog is that white people, and most people, shouldn't use the "but you do it too" response in such situations. Instead, when the Imus thing happened, and parts of the black community responded like they did, the white community should have said "well, that was a rude comment, but I don't really give a sh*t." Most probably felt like that, but were too busy trying to point out that "one of my really good friends is black" to say anything.

[mccoyred]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Read the "article", laughable, at best.

The best thing to take away from this blog is that white people, and most people, shouldn't use the "but you do it too" response in such situations. Instead, when the Imus thing happened, and parts of the black community responded like they did, the white community should have said "well, that was a rude comment, but I don't really give a sh*t." Most probably felt like that, but were too busy trying to point out that "one of my really good friends is black" to say anything.

Hmm, I think that the article was right on point, especially "So in the ultimate irony, it is white buyers who make that kind of rap profitable...:

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Read the "article", laughable, at best.


The best thing to take away from this blog is that white people, and most people, shouldn't use the "but you do it too" response in such situations. Instead, when the Imus thing happened, and parts of the black community responded like they did, the white community should have said "well, that was a rude comment, but I don't really give a sh*t." Most probably felt like that, but were too busy trying to point out that "one of my really good friends is black" to say anything.

Cool.

As long as you read it.

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by mccoyred

Hmm, I think that the article was right on point, especially "So in the ultimate irony, it is white buyers who make that kind of rap profitable...:

Well, whats the other part of the formula for irony here? White buyers make rap profitable so therefore its ironic that ______________? That white people point out what they see as a double standard when it comes to black community reaction? I don't see how that fits. That white people blame the black community for things like the Imus debacle? I've heard very few white people say things like that, so I certainly don't see that it would be the "ultimate irony." In fact, on a scale of irony, I'd probably give it, generously, a 3/10.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

White buyers make rap profitable so therefore its ironic that ______________?

...this is a topic.

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

...this is a topic.

Not really, double standards regarding how BLACK PEOPLE react to situations like this have absolutely nothing to do with whether white people purchase a majority of the rap music in this country.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Not really, double standards regarding how BLACK PEOPLE react to situations like this have absolutely nothing to do with whether white people purchase a majority of the rap music in this country.

Okay, WHITE PERSON.

[Little32]

LOL, some stuff is just hilarious.

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Okay, WHITE PERSON.

I prefer off-white.