Homeless people

[christiangirl]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Explain how it's not a choice for someone with an able body/mind.

I don't have to--not all homeless have an able body/mind. So, those are the ones who I will disagree on behalf of.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by christiangirl

I don't have to--not all homeless have an able body/mind. So, those are the ones who I will disagree on behalf of.

Then they're eligible for benefits.

[christiangirl]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Then they're eligible for benefits.

If you are not of sound mind, then there is a good chance you have no idea what you are eligible for and are not educated enough to even go find out. Instead, you may very well spend your days hiding, afraid of being locked up in a "crazy house" or walking up and down the streets talking to people no one else see, as do several homeless men who live in my neighborhood. They never ask a single person for change--in fact, I've never seen them speak to anyone who was visible. It's only these extreme cases who I'm referring to. As for the others, they can be debated about by the rest of the board.

[amanda6035]

Originally Posted by christiangirl

If you are not of sound mind, then there is a good chance you have no idea what you are eligible for and are not educated enough to even go find out.

I know I'm gonna get reamed for this, but seriously - how is this MY problem? If you dont care enough to try to find out, crazy or not, why should I bend over backwards to help you? ANYBODY who ever paid attention to anything in society would know that there a ways to pursue getting help. If you're eligible for benefits - benefits that are paid for by tax dollars (so yes, we all contribute) then you need to be conscious enough to do something about it, rather than begging me for more money.

[christiangirl]

Originally Posted by amanda6035

I know I'm gonna get reamed for this, but seriously - how is this MY problem? If you dont care enough to try to find out, crazy or not, why should I bend over backwards to help you? ANYBODY who ever paid attention to anything in society would know that there a ways to pursue getting help. If you're eligible for benefits - benefits that are paid for by tax dollars (so yes, we all contribute) then you need to be conscious enough to do something about it, rather than begging me for more money.

Not to "ream" you, but not necessarily. I said "Not educated enough." I can't imagine that everyone on the streets knows about the acts and laws that have been passed for their benefit (ie, those who've never been to school, couldn't get into a shelter/program, etc.). These are people who everyone avoids, especially if they aren't even always fully conscious of their surroundings. Who actually sits a homeless person down and explains procedures to get on disability, if they're too far gone mentally or too illiterate to understand it? I didn't say anything about those who "Don't care enough." Two completely different groups of people, but as applied to the latter, I definitely agree.

[amanda6035]

okay, so if they are so bad off that they cant be conscious of their surroundings, again, how is that my problem? You can lead a horse to water, but you cant force it to drink....how am I supposed to miraculously change these peoples lives???

You know, Kevin, i was at a fast food joint a few days ago, and this guy bumped into me, I turned, looked, smiled, and turned back to what I was doing (becuase honestly, he looked kinda creepy and scared me). I walked away from the counter and he followed me "Hi how are you doing" he said to me, in a voice so low I could barely hear him. I looked at him quizzically, and he kept talking, again, so low that I couldnt understand him. I said "Excuse me?" and he started to talk again...again, too soft for me to hear. At that point, i rolled my eyes and walked away muttering under my breath about how if you're gonna talk to me, look me in the eye and say what you need to say, dont stare off in space and expect me to help you out when you cant even speak up where i can understand what the hell it is you're asking.

Oh, I might add, he had 2 tear drop tattoos on his face. Yeah, I was TOTALLY comfortable helping him out with WHATEVER it might have been he was asking for.

CG - back to the point at hand- I'm sorry these people arent educated. but what the heck am I supposed to do to change that?

[Glitter650]

Originally Posted by amanda6035

okay, so if they are so bad off that they cant be conscious of their surroundings, again, how is that my problem? You can lead a horse to water, but you cant force it to drink....how am I supposed to miraculously change these peoples lives???

You know, Kevin, i was at a fast food joint a few days ago, and this guy bumped into me, I turned, looked, smiled, and turned back to what I was doing (becuase honestly, he looked kinda creepy and scared me). I walked away from the counter and he followed me "Hi how are you doing" he said to me, in a voice so low I could barely hear him. I looked at him quizzically, and he kept talking, again, so low that I couldnt understand him. I said "Excuse me?" and he started to talk again...again, too soft for me to hear. At that point, i rolled my eyes and walked away muttering under my breath about how if you're gonna talk to me, look me in the eye and say what you need to say, dont stare off in space and expect me to help you out when you cant even speak up where i can understand what the hell it is you're asking.

Oh, I might add, he had 2 tear drop tattoos on his face. Yeah, I was TOTALLY comfortable helping him out with WHATEVER it might have been he was asking for.

CG - back to the point at hand- I'm sorry these people arent educated. but what the heck am I supposed to do to change that?

The fact is he probably spoke softly because most people are uncomfortable with him and act like he's invisible so they don't have to think about his existence.
You're not supposed to "do anything" about it, although if you could volunteer for an organization that helps the homeless. Bottom line, no matter if they got there "by choice" or through circumstances beyone their control, they are human beings and still deserve to be treated with respect.

[christiangirl]

Originally Posted by amanda6035

CG - back to the point at hand- I'm sorry these people arent educated. but what the heck am I supposed to do to change that?

Who said you were supposed to do something?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by amanda6035

okay, so if they are so bad off that they cant be conscious of their surroundings, again, how is that my problem? You can lead a horse to water, but you cant force it to drink....how am I supposed to miraculously change these peoples lives???

CG - back to the point at hand- I'm sorry these people arent educated. but what the heck am I supposed to do to change that?

The problem is that many many many mental hospitals have been closed down and people who SHOULD be in one are on the streets instead. They've been deemed fit for normal social interaction as far as the law says, but many times that's just not the case. It has nothing to do with education. Also, some of them have been outright abandoned by their families.

Abuses were found in some mental hospitals and publicized, the public came to believe being put in a mental hospital automatically equals fate worse than death, and the people should be given a chance to live "normally." For some people this was great, but for some people not.

[Tom Earp]

Well, My Bleeding Hearts, it boils down to what the person who is begging wants to do and why.

Your diatrabs do not mean a damn thing.

If a person wants to give okay, if not, then so be it!

I as kevin says pay his way, do you or do you give to every panhandler who begs for money?

S**T get over I am not going to give uless you do and soon become broke and go begging!

[tld221]

Originally Posted by amanda6035

At that point, i rolled my eyes and walked away muttering under my breath about how if you're gonna talk to me, look me in the eye and say what you need to say, dont stare off in space and expect me to help you out when you cant even speak up where i can understand what the hell it is you're asking.

umm, i can't exactly imagine that the homeless have superior social skills, especially when most of the general public treats them similarily to how you just described.

and way to go on mumbling to yourself instead of showing him the decency to speak to his face. cause, you know, that requires you to treat him as your equal, and maybe youre a little above that.

as far as the dude not speaking up... yeah. kids and teenagers do the same thing. i know my 16 year old brother does his share of mumbling and voiding of eye contact. instead of ignoring him, i tell him to speak the F up. now in no way am i comparing my family to the homeless, but my logic says if society verbally shuns you, youre daily conversations prolly arent that extensive or advanced. again, that doesnt mean to grunt and mumble, but that's the way it is sometimes.

Originally Posted by amanda6035

back to the point at hand- I'm sorry these people arent educated. but what the heck am I supposed to do to change that?

you know, you hit it on the head for me - i say the EXACT SAME THING when i read some of the ridiculousness on GC cough *this thread* cough

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by christiangirl

If you are not of sound mind, then there is a good chance you have no idea what you are eligible for and are not educated enough to even go find out. Instead, you may very well spend your days hiding, afraid of being locked up in a "crazy house" or walking up and down the streets talking to people no one else see, as do several homeless men who live in my neighborhood. They never ask a single person for change--in fact, I've never seen them speak to anyone who was visible. It's only these extreme cases who I'm referring to. As for the others, they can be debated about by the rest of the board.

Okay, well, the alternative is to lock them up against their will or to force medication on them they might not want. If they are of no danger to anyone else (and the mental health system is supposed to make that determination) or themselves, they get to go free.

It is still their choice not to take their meds and not to take advantage of whatever programs are available to them. If their disease has taken their ability to choose away, so sad for them, but again, it's not my problem.

[DSTRen13]

Reading over this thread, I am really shocked (probably more than I should be, admittedly). If you stop for a minute and really think about it, I'm sure that you all know someone (a relative, friend's relative, someone!) who it wouldn't take a great stretch of the imagination to picture homeless. If your Uncle Joe, or Aunt Jane, or your friend Jen's Granpa John, or whoever, DIDN'T have a family looking out for them and taking care of them, then where would they be? How would strangers see them, when they are dirty, and alone, and not on their pills? To you, they are a familiar face who deserves compassion and help, but tweak the circumstances just a little bit, and then they're that bum on the street who scares people and everyone is so horrified and angry about.

[DSTRen13]

Originally Posted by Kevin

It is still their choice not to take their meds and not to take advantage of whatever programs are available to them. If their disease has taken their ability to choose away, so sad for them, but again, it's not my problem.

It sounds to me like you do have a big problem with it -- enough to start this thread complaining about it, at any rate. If you dislike homeless people so much, it seems to me the best thing you could do would be to get involved in an organization working to solve the problem - volunteer, help these people, do something constructive, instead of just getting pissed off at victims.

As for those with mental diseases which take away their abilities to make free choices for themselves - it is extremely sad, both for them, and for their families and friends. Whether you choose to have sympathy for that or not is up to you, but it wouldn't kill you to try.

[risingstar]

Originally Posted by DSTRen13

Reading over this thread, I am really shocked (probably more than I should be, admittedly). If you stop for a minute and really think about it, I'm sure that you all know someone (a relative, friend's relative, someone!) who it wouldn't take a great stretch of the imagination to picture homeless. If your Uncle Joe, or Aunt Jane, or your friend Jen's Granpa John, or whoever, DIDN'T have a family looking out for them and taking care of them, then where would they be? How would strangers see them, when they are dirty, and alone, and not on their pills? To you, they are a familiar face who deserves compassion and help, but tweak the circumstances just a little bit, and then they're that bum on the street who scares people and everyone is so horrified and angry about.

Exactly. My husband has an uncle. Child support takes his whole check. He has nothing. Finally, his car was repo'ed and he could not get to work and he lost his job. Because of this, he could not pay his rent and was evicted. He ended up in a mission. During the day, a bus took everyone downtown and unloaded them in the park. They had to take their belongings with them and wonder around aimlessly and pray that at the end of the day, they could score a bed at the mission again (Exactly like on The Pursuit of Happyness). He is not on drugs and he is not an alcoholic. But he refused to let someone know that he was in desperate need. He was trying to get back on his feet on his own. Finally my father-in-law took him in and is helping him get on his feet.