Harry Potter & the Order of the Phoenix (film) - Page 7

Glitter650 · #91 07-20-2007, 04:40 PM

I kinda wish they would've had a couple of scenes at St. Mungos... in the film... I feel like they kinda worked really hard to make it less dark than the book, because the book was really the darkest, and saddest of them all IMO...

MysticCat · #92 07-20-2007, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marie

As a side note...I feel like we give J. K. Rowling too much credit. I mean it has again and again been repeated that he remembers the flash of light and heard his mom screen. Luna can see them (and I don't believe that she witnessed her mother's death), and Neville can see them when his parents aren't even dead. J. K. just slipped up a little on this one. That's cool, but it surprises me that she can pull any explanation out of her azz, and folks are like "Oh ok...genius how you planned it that way."

Umm, no, she's assuming you actually read the books and can reason a little.

Seeing a flash of green light and hearing his mom scream =/= seeing her die.

Luna never says one way or the other whether she actually saw her mother die, although her comment that "it was rather horrible" can give rise to the inference she saw it. Since that scene in the book comes after the scene where it's explained that "the only people who can see thestrals are people who have seen death" (p. 446, US hardback edition), you're reaching to find some inconsistency and afterthought explanation.

As for Neville:

Order of the Phoenix, Chapter 21 ("The Eye of the Snake") (p. 449, US hardback edition):

"You can see the thestrals, Longbotton, can you?" [Umbridge] said.

Neville nodded.

"Whom did you see die?" she asked, her tone indifferent.

"My . . . grandad," said Neville.

Maybe she's giving some readers too much credit.

christiangirl · #93 07-20-2007, 05:48 PM

Hmm...now that I've reread OotP, I realize that Luna never really did say she saw her mother die...Harry merely asked, "Who did you know that died?" and that's quite different, isn't it? Hmmm....in any case, I still feel that Harry should've been able to see them at the end of GoF, even if Cedric's death hadn't processed yet. That's not one of the conditions, is it? You've got to have seen death to see thestrals, not have seen it and come to grips with it as well. That was definitely a shoddy job of smoothing over, but she's done too much genius writing for me to really hold that one against her.

Alright, I'm peacing y'all out! I'm boycotting the net until Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows is properly read!

MysticCat · #94 07-20-2007, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christiangirl

Hmmm....in any case, I still feel that Harry should've been able to see them at the end of GoF, even if Cedric's death hadn't processed yet. That's not one of the conditions, is it?

Not to be flippant about (okay, maybe I'm being a little flippant), but if JKR says its one of the conditions, than its one of the conditions. She created thestrals, so she can make the conditions whatever she bloody well wants to.

In any event, I find it interesting that when Hermione answers Hagrid's question about why some people can't see the thestrals, she does not say that it's because "the only people who can see thestrals are people who have seen someone die." What she says is, "the only people who can see thestrals are people who have seen death." Is there a difference between seeing someone die and seeing death? I don't know.

Quote:

Alright, I'm peacing y'all out! I'm boycotting the net until Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows is properly read!

Same here!

christiangirl · #95 07-20-2007, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Not to be flippant about (okay, maybe I'm being a little flippant), but if JKR says its one of the conditions, than its one of the conditions. She created thestrals, so she can make the conditions whatever she bloody well wants to.

I popped back in to answer a question I thought was posted in this thread, but was mistaken--however, since I'm here, I thought I'd clarify that the condition to which I'm referring was NOT set in the book. JKR only said it on a site after she'd be caught in the slip-up. That makes a bit of difference than if it had been in the book--she can change things as she pleases, but it wouldn't be raising flags to people if it'd been set all along. But like I said, she's written to much genius for anyone to really hold it against her.

lyrica9 · #96 07-20-2007, 09:43 PM

i got the impression that you had to comprehend the death for the thestrals to appear, which would explain why harry couldn't see them before, because i don't think the actual killing of his parents registered enough in his mind for him to truly appreciate death.

Drolefille · #97 07-20-2007, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyrica9

i got the impression that you had to comprehend the death for the thestrals to appear, which would explain why harry couldn't see them before, because i don't think the actual killing of his parents registered enough in his mind for him to truly appreciate death.

That's actually the reason why Harry didn't see the thestrals on the trip back home at the end of his fourth year. JKR has said that he didn't see his parents' death itself.

ASUADPi · #98 07-21-2007, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyrica9

i got the impression that you had to comprehend the death for the thestrals to appear, which would explain why harry couldn't see them before, because i don't think the actual killing of his parents registered enough in his mind for him to truly appreciate death.

Plus if you want to get all "reality"

, I read a study (years ago) that said most people don't remember alot (possibley bits and pieces) prior to the age of 7. Something about our long term memory, I don't know. So taking that "fact" into account with a fictional character, could be why. I mean when she's writing she is probably basing these fictional characters and places off a bit of reality. I don't think I'm making sense at all

Soliloquy · #99 07-22-2007, 03:13 AM

He sees them because he witnessed Cedric's death...

I know that has already been said, just thought I'd say it again!

MysticCat · #**100** 07-23-2007, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyrica9

i got the impression that you had to comprehend the death for the thestrals to appear . . . .

That's what I was getting at in wondering if there's a difference in "seeing someone die" and "seeing death."

ETA: I went back and found the interview where she talked about this. It was given at the Royal Albert Hall on June 26, 2003. Here's what she said:

Internet question from Jessica Wells, originally from Australia now living in London.

Email: "Harry saw his parents die so why hasn’t he been able to see the Thestrals before?"

JK Rowling: I knew I was going to get that one…that is an excellent question. And here is the truth. At the end of Goblet of Fire we sent Harry home more depressed than he had ever been leaving Howarts. I knew that Thestrals were coming, and I can prove that because they’re in the book I’d produced for Comic Relief (UK) "Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them".

These are lucky Black Winged Horses. However, if Harry had seen them and it had not been explained then it would cheat the reader. So, to explain that to myself, I decided you had to have seen the death and allowed it to sink in a bit… slowly…these creatures became solid in front of you. So that’s how I’m going to sneak past that one.

The entire interview can be read here.

BabyPiNK_FL · #**101** 07-23-2007, 07:00 PM

I have never read any of the books but this movie disappointed me. I totally didn't understand Sirius' death until my boyfriend TOLD me after the movie. Up until then I was like "Where did he go? What is that vortex thingy?"

The whole secret students' society seemed like a waste of time since they didn't do much.

THERE WAS NO BIG FIGHT. It was like Harry had all these things happen to him and then in the end absolutely nothing really happened. I/It felt so unresolved!

I didn't get a lot of the whole "prophecy" thing even though I knew it was coming the movie blew past it.

Honestly, they should get rid of the director or whomever shaved so much off. I don't read the books, but I like that the movie usually gets enough into it for me to not have to.

People like HP books and films because they are long and thorough. If I wanted a McMovie, I would have seen "I Now Pronounce You Chuck and Larry" or something.

SoCalGirl · #**102** 07-23-2007, 09:53 PM

After reading the last book I'm even more annoyed by how much they've cut from the movie. Almost everything that was cut is vital to the last book.

christiangirl · #**103** 07-25-2007, 06:40 AM

My HP book club reckons that this director fit in more from the book than any other director has managed, but that it was edited it such a choppy manner, jumping from scene to scene, that it was much more easy to get lost.