Hazing creates a sense of unity

[PiKA2001]

Originally posted by Heather17
I am getting the impression that he feels that because he didn't have to do those things he some how missed out or didn't earn his initiation?

You're not following me here. What I posted were the guidlines (in a nutshell ) that I was told when I rushed. They were simple and straightforward. I don't know how you got the impression that I feel depraved because I didnt get to eat the oogie cookie.

[doofy312]

I got the hell hazed out of me. I enjoyed it. I do not haze my pledges, becasue there are other guys to do that. I am the guy that goes afterwards and talks to them about why we did it and what they need to gain from it. that is what needs to happen after hazing events. I believe that i would not feel like a real fraternity member if i just waltzed in and became a brother. I felt that I had earned my right to walk into the house as a brother. I believe the only thing that gets out of control is the alcohol. That can be dangerous. Physical and mental things are great for hazing. Degradation is the best. Make sure the pledges feel like shit, so that way they can build themslves back up together. If you feel as if you grew apart from your fraternity then that means the people hazing you didnt give a shit about you. If they did they would have cared to help you out afterwards.

[Iris]

.....you have got to be kidding......

[LPIDelta]

Originally posted by doofy312
I am the guy that goes afterwards and talks to them about why we did it and what they need to gain from it. that is what needs to happen after hazing events. I believe that i would not feel like a real fraternity member if i just waltzed in and became a brother. I felt that I had earned my right to walk into the house as a brother. I believe the only thing that gets out of control is the alcohol. That can be dangerous. Physical and mental things are great for hazing. Degradation is the best. Make sure the pledges feel like shit, so that way they can build themslves back up together. If you feel as if you grew apart from your fraternity then that means the people hazing you didnt give a shit about you. If they did they would have cared to help you out afterwards.

OK--this is too good not to reply.

If you need to explain what they were supposed to get out of an activity in order to meet your group's "purposes" then there is something wrong with the activity. You don't tell someone "and now you need to bond/trust etc." and it just happens.

Actions speak louder than words. If you want respect, respect other people. If you want to be seen as a leader, then engage in genuine leadership activities that are uplifting.

Additionally, why would you rush someone that was so weak as to allow themselves to be degraded?

More and more often, college students today are busy. They have to work, they often have to take more classes to satisfy their degrees, they have to engage in internships etc. WITH LIMITED TIME, WHY WOULD THE AGREE TO PARTICIPATE IN SOMETHING THAT BRINGS THEM DOWN?

I would take a LONG hard look at your orgs activities and yourself, and really consider the type of "brotherhood" you're building. ETA: Believe it or not, you're taking the easy road here, and that does not build a lifetime of unity.

[AGDee]

Let's look at that in another context...

I am your boss at work. I degrade you and scream at you in front of all your co-workers during your 90 day probation period. I also encourage your co-workers to do this to you. I do this to everybody, but at their 90 day evaluation, I call them into my office and tell them that I'm doing this because I want them to work together and going through this similar process makes people work together as a team better and proves that you really want to work there.

Does that make sense in that context? It is the most convoluted logic I've ever heard in my life.

Respect breeds respect.
Caring breeds caring.
Friendship breeds friendship.
Hazing serves no useful purpose other than making some idiot feel superior to someone.

[TSteven]

Originally posted by Heather17
Additionally, why would you rush someone that was so weak as to allow themselves to be degraded?

Brilliant point!

[Rudey]

Originally posted by TSteven
Brilliant point!

Perhaps because you see that degradation as a means to an end, in the same way that the pledge does.

-Rudey

[TSteven]

Originally posted by Rudey
Perhaps because you see that degradation as a means to an end, in the same way that the pledge does.

-Rudey

That certainly is one way to look at it.

[Tom Earp]

Well, if one wants to be degraded, then let them be!

I think We Call Them Marooons! Rhymns with Schrooms, smoking them maybe?

Also sounds like whats He face is a Kid who is not old enough to be in a GLO!

[doofy312]

Look man, You have claimed I am not greek in multiple threads. Your are wrong. I am a Phi Sigma Kappa at the University of Tenn. I am 20 years old so dont think I am 14. Nice try though.

To everyone else, The way we go about business, is to see if the people coming through really want it. I do not tell them to bond afterwards. I inform them of what all went on and what all was ritual and what all was just filler to the activity. My fraternity has one of the strongest brotherhoods I have ever seen. So maybe you all who that are on here telling me you all havea good brotherhood might want to rethink how great it is. Every brother would back me up in a heart beat and i know it for a fact.

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by doofy312
I inform them of what all went on and what all was ritual and what all was just filler to the activity.

I want to be absolutely sure I understand that sentence.

Are you saying that hazing is a part of your fraternity ritual?

ETA: The following is copied directly from the Phi Sigma Kappa website:

"Passages New Member Program

In recent years, Phi Sigma Kappa has taken the lead in the interfraternity world with some of its progressive educational programming. The "Passages" program, the Fraternity's "no pledging" initiative, was implemented to provide membership education for all undergraduate brothers throughout their collegiate career, as well as to stamp out any hazing practices in some of our chapters. (Uderline added)

"Passages" is based on a standard of mutual respect between existing brothers and newly initiated brothers. No longer will a rushee or new initiate be treated like a second class citizen as in the traditional pledge program. Instead, all brothers share equal privileges beginning from the time our candidates take the first steps toward initiation."

[macallan25]

do you really think that chapters operate by what their national website has posted in regards to fraternitie's operations? Phi Delt is a nationally dry fraternity, expressed on their website....do you think that stops them from partying in their house?

[Iris]

Originally posted by doofy312...

Every brother would back me up in a heart beat and i know it for a fact.

....not quite so sure that the brothers at your HQs would back you up so quickly....especially since you've mentioned your GLO and university......scary, dude.

Hmmmm....did you happen to read the "You are what you post" thread under Greek Life?

[PiKA2001]

Michigan Hazing Law
THE MICHIGAN PENAL CODE (EXCERPT)

Act 328 of 1931

***** 750.411t.added THIS ADDED SECTION IS EFFECTIVE AUGUST 18, 2004 *****
750.411t.added Hazing prohibited; violation; penalty; exceptions; certain defenses barred; definitions; section title.

Sec. 411t.

(1) Except as provided in subsection (4), a person who attends, is employed by, or is a volunteer of an educational institution shall not engage in or participate in the hazing of an individual.

(2) A person who violates subsection (1) is guilty of a crime punishable as follows:

(a) If the violation results in physical injury, the person is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 93 days or a fine of not more than $1,000.00, or both.

(b) If the violation results in serious impairment of a body function, the person is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than 5 years or a fine of not more than $2,500.00, or both.

(c) If the violation results in death, the person is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than 15 years or a fine of not more than $10,000.00, or both.

(3) A criminal penalty provided for under this section may be imposed in addition to any penalty that may be imposed for any other criminal offense arising from the same conduct.

(4) This section does not apply to an individual who is the subject of the hazing, regardless of whether the individual voluntarily allowed himself or herself to be hazed.

(5) This section does not apply to an activity that is normal and customary in an athletic, physical education, military training, or similar program sanctioned by the educational institution.

(6) It is not a defense to a prosecution for a crime under this section that the individual against whom the hazing was directed consented to or acquiesced in the hazing.

(7) As used in this section:

(a) “Educational institution” means a public or private school that is a middle school, junior high school, high school, vocational school, college, or university located in this state.

(b) “Hazing” means an intentional, knowing, or reckless act by a person acting alone or acting with others that is directed against an individual and that the person knew or should have known endangers the physical health or safety of the individual, and that is done for the purpose of pledging, being initiated into, affiliating with, participating in, holding office in, or maintaining membership in any organization. Subject to subsection (5), hazing includes any of the following that is done for such a purpose:

(i) Physical brutality, such as whipping, beating, striking, branding, electronic shocking, placing of a harmful substance on the body, or similar activity.

(ii) Physical activity, such as sleep deprivation, exposure to the elements, confinement in a small space, or calisthenics, that subjects the other person to an unreasonable risk of harm or that adversely affects the physical health or safety of the individual.

(iii) Activity involving consumption of a food, liquid, alcoholic beverage, liquor, drug, or other substance that subjects the individual to an unreasonable risk of harm or that adversely affects the physical health or safety of the individual.

(iv) Activity that induces, causes, or requires an individual to perform a duty or task that involves the commission of a crime or an act of hazing.

(c) “Organization” means a fraternity, sorority, association, corporation, order, society, corps, cooperative, club, service group, social group, athletic team, or similar group whose members are primarily students at an educational institution.

(d) “Pledge” means an individual who has been accepted by, is considering an offer of membership from, or is in the process of qualifying for membership in any organization.

(e) “Pledging” means any action or activity related to becoming a member of an organization.

(f) “Serious impairment of a body function” means that term as defined in section 479a.

(8) This section shall be known and may be cited as “Garret's law.”

History: Add. 2004, Act 111, Eff. Aug. 18, 2004.

[PiKA2001]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
So where does interviewing actives or signatures fall under?