National VS Local Debate

[aopirose]

I agree with this statement.

Originally posted by russellwarshay
The line between a regional and a national may be blurry, but the line between local and anything else is very, very clear. It is a single chapter that is unique to that campus.

[33girl]

OK russell, you just crossed the line with that crack about AOX...what ONE SISTER is calling them in A THREAD ON A CHAT BOARD has nothing to do with their situation....that's pretty effing rude.

[chideltjen]

Originally posted by russellwarshay
If AOX needs to define themselves in a way that is inconsistent with realitry, then their deluded outlook would explain why their mother chapter is now facing extinction. They need to see reality for what it is, not their fantasy world of being a multiple chapter local.

I DON'T think their chapter is being expelled because they can't tell the difference between a regional and local sorority.

[Nikki_DZ]

Originally posted by 33girl
OK russell, you just crossed the line with that crack about AOX...what ONE SISTER is calling them in A THREAD ON A CHAT BOARD has nothing to do with their situation....that's pretty effing rude.

Agreed.

I think certain people need to step away from their keyboards, walk outside, and realize there's a whole big world beyond Greek Life and the internet.

Taking pot shots at a chapter closing is NO LAUGHING MATTER. Brother and sisterhood exist no matter what your definition is. The pain being felt by this "local" or "regional" chapter is pain regardless of how you classify them. My chapter closed my junior year-was my pain worth more since I'm the member of a national org?

[PhiPsiRuss]

Originally posted by 33girl
OK russell, you just crossed the line with that crack about AOX...what ONE SISTER is calling them in A THREAD ON A CHAT BOARD has nothing to do with their situation....that's pretty effing rude.

And your perpetual condescending attitude is polite? Why don't you chastize her for personal attacks against me? You won't because you are a hypocrite.

[33girl]

Originally posted by russellwarshay
And your perpetual condescending attitude is polite?

Hey, pot. I'd like you to meet kettle.

[damasa]

Originally posted by russellwarshay
[B

No matter what AOX wnats to call themselves, they are a regional. What is so difficult to accept about the definition of a local? [/B]

You aren't the greeklife authority and what you interpret as the "working definiton" of a "local" may well be different from what another person views. Just as how you have continued to claim that locals don't behave as well as regionals or nationals, which is a blind opinion yet it is your opinion.

If AOX wishes to define themselves as a local then they have a right to do so - it's a working definition for their group, something they are a part of, something you are not.

Not all locals are once exisiting chapters of a national. And you are using the SUNY system as a basis for your argument but there are dozens of other university systems out there along with many other regions of this country. Simply because the locals (and I guarantee not all of them) in the NE are "not behaving," it doesn't mean they all aren't. And I could guarantee that there are nationals and regionals up there doing the same.

Locals haze, nationals haze and regionals haze because they all haze. Being a chapter of a national does not guarantee better behavior and if that argument would be true, we wouldn't hear about many, or for that matter, any hazing violations by chapters of national organizations. But we do and we hear about them from locals as well.

I see insurance rates constantly on the rise for national groups. Sometimes so high that certain chapters close because they can no longer afford the insurance costs. There are reasons these costs grew so high and locals aren't the only ones to blame.

It's sad but stroll on over to the Risk Management forum and read about the hazing incidents from locals and nationals alike. There is no better behavior argument here and there would be no way to prove it either way. It's based on personal opinion or the opinions of people we know that are part of university systems which differ from those in other parts of the country.

[AlethiaSi]

Originally posted by damasa


Not all locals are once exisiting chapters of a national. And you are using the SUNY system as a basis for your argument but there are dozens of other university systems out there along with many other regions of this country. Simply because the locals (and I guarantee not all of them) in the NE are "not behaving," it doesn't mean they all aren't. And I could guarantee that there are nationals and regionals up there doing the same.

Locals haze, nationals haze and regionals haze because they all haze. Being a chapter of a national does not guarantee better behavior and if that argument would be true, we wouldn't hear about many, or for that matter, any hazing violations by chapters of national organizations. But we do and we hear about them from locals as well.

thank you for this point.... my experience of greek life is from a small suny school where greek life exists with its own problems... thats just how it is... in a perfect greek world- no one would haze- but this is not true-it depends on each chapter and to act like locals haze more is a fallacy... not like its any better or any worse... its just more covered up... so please stick to your own experiences because i know i am....

[chideltjen]

Not all locals are once exisiting chapters of a national. And you are using the SUNY system as a basis for your argument but there are dozens of other university systems out there along with many other regions of this country.

Point well said. Like I said before, what happens at your school either doesn't or occurs differently at my school. Different locals, different regions.

And while you can place blame on locals in your area for hospital visits, no org is immune from members that choose to haze. It happens everywhere in and outside the greek world. It just so happens that nationals have better risk management programs and people constantly watching their asses so it doesn't happen again.

So now what? Ban all locals? That doesn't seem fair.
So what does Baird's say about regionals? I mean they completely omitted the definitions of a local org so we have to have something to go off of. Because I have never heard of the term "regional" until I came here. Around here, if a group has more than 5 chapters, they are a national... sorta.

ETA: To hopefully change the subject: what is the difference between IFC and NIC??? The fraternities on my campus are part of IFC. But I keep seeing NIC popping up in the conversation. And I know PanHellenic sororities are traditionally african american sororities, so what do traditionally african american fraternities go by?

[shadokat]

And frankly, it's not only fraternities at SUNY Oneonta who are unrecognized, but there are sororities too, and the sororities and fraternities have socials with them too. It has nothing to do with locals vs. nationals or regionals, but just the fact that their Greek system is FUBAR! Now shut your pie hole russ on the damn local vs. regional thing...you sound like an 8 year old who hasn't gotten his way, and I'm sure Phi Psi wouldn't want to be represented that way!

[33girl]

Originally posted by chideltjen
ETA: To hopefully change the subject: what is the difference between IFC and NIC??? The fraternities on my campus are part of IFC. But I keep seeing NIC popping up in the conversation. And I know PanHellenic sororities are traditionally african american sororities, so what do traditionally african american fraternities go by?

IFC = Inter-Fraternity Council - the campus org that governs the fraternities.
NIC = North American (used to be National) Interfraternity Conference - the national group.

NPHC (National Pan-Hellenic Council) is for both fraternities and sororities.

[g41965]

If I remember correctly the NIC used to have a rule that to join a fraternity had to have five active chapters,perhaps the NIC requirement could serve to differentiate local from National Fraternities.

[PhiPsiRuss]

Originally posted by g41965
If I remember correctly the NIC used to have a rule that to join a fraternity had to have five active chapters,perhaps the NIC requirement could serve to differentiate local from National Fraternities.

Or that could be perceived as the distinction between regionals and nationals. The rule of 5 is just where the NIC cuts off eligible organizations. Its what works for them. The NPC, I believe, draws the line with a higher number.

The line beteween a regional and a national may be blurry, but the line between a local and anything else is very, very clear. It is a single chapter that is unique to that campus.

[chideltjen]

Originally posted by russellwarshay
Or that could be perceived as the distinction between regionals and nationals. The rule of 5 is just where the NIC cuts off eligible organizations. Its what works for them. The NPC, I believe, draws the line with a higher number.

The line beteween a regional and a national may be blurry, but the line between a local and anything else is very, very clear. It is a single chapter that is unique to that campus.

So much for changing the subject.

But yeah, I am still waiting on that regional definition Russ.

I am going to fuel the fire again. Yes, my org has a beta chapter. This would, in some people's eyes, be considered a regional sorority. HOWEVER, I realized something. Our beta chapter may share our symbols, sayings, letters, colors, some traditions, etc, BUT they govern themselves differently then we do. They were put on a system where 8 basic officers govern the whole house. Our system is an exec board with 2 zillion committees. (Well not really.) They also have a different philanthropy, different rituals, and a different pledge program.

I love my sisters in Sonoma regardless, but even though we share letters, aren't we technically unique from each other, therefore still making us local?

[msn4med1975]

I'm really only asking this because I'm confused. How can a second chapter of the same sorority have different rituals, philanthropy and pledge program? I mean I know my organization may implement our national service initiatives in different ways but we still work in the same areas. The rituals and pledge period thing being different is just not gonna happen in my organization so that's really why I'm scratching my head right now.