Has the tradition of Legacies outgrown its usefulness?

[itb]

[QUOTE=lyrelyre;1840262] Additionally, a chapter cannot have contact with a PNM or her family.

/QUOTE]

That's another problem; a chapter SHOULD be able to contact it's alumni to inquire about a legacy (for good or for bad). And once again, an artificial limit is put in place. Common sense says it's courteous to alumni to talk about little Suzy the legacy, regardless of the subject, and probably best because some of those alumni have experience and knowledge OR INFORMATION that a 18-22 year old or a 'chapter advisor' or 'rush consultant' do NOT have.

[33girl]

Think about when you were in school though...if someone's grandma had called you asking about her granddaughter that she loves more than anything on earth, wanting to know if she got a bid. What Grandma doesn't know is that her pride and joy spent the summer partying at the FGH fraternity house, sleeping with half the brothers and doing lines of coke off their charter.

You need to put yourself in a 19 year old's position and think about how horrid that situation would be. I know we had a sister (eventually terminated) whose dad was an administrator at the college - she was the wildest girl I ever knew, and her dad blamed US for corrupting her. Nothing could have been further from the truth!! That situation was bad enough, I can't imagine what the girls go through who are dealing with hundreds of legacies (not all of whom are as squeaky clean as they appear on paper).

Sororities are collegiate groups whose members are chosen by college students. For better or worse, that's the way it needs to stay, unless the whole system is completely revamped into something more like a job or college entrance interview.

[kddani]

See itb's other 6 posts for history of his/her tour on the bitter bus.

[lyrelyre]

Originally Posted by itb

That's another problem; a chapter SHOULD be able to contact it's alumni to inquire about a legacy (for good or for bad). And once again, an artificial limit is put in place. Common sense says it's courteous to alumni to talk about little Suzy the legacy, regardless of the subject, and probably best because some of those alumni have experience and knowledge OR INFORMATION that a 18-22 year old or a 'chapter advisor' or 'rush consultant' do NOT have.

I disagree. Silence rules are in effect to keep chapters from placing pressure on a PNM and her family. They may be “artificial” and imperfect, but they’re what we have. If you can recommend something that’s legitimately better, go for it. If all you are going to do is complain and offer no workable solutions you can ride the bitter bus on out of here.

The fact remains: most people don’t know if their daughter/niece/granddaughter has a bad reputation. It’s probably a generational thing, because sisters generally do know of one another’s reputations. Like I said: I'm not calling little Suzy's mother/aunt/grandmother and telling her that little Suzy might look good on paper but she's really a skank.

[crescent&pearls]

I've been ruminating on something while reading this thread..I never thought of release figures as mandatory or arbitrary.

Release figures are based on a formula, and that formula is derived from historical return stats. The most popular chapters therefore have to release the largest number of pnms, because their stats indicate that they will very likely have their choice of their favorites accept their invitations.

If a group has a variation in their returns, they can appeal to the panhellenic advisor in charge of rush to be flexible with their return rates to maximize the chance of pledging quota right? and vice versa, a chapter having extraordinarily high and unexpected returns might be asked to whittle their invite list down for the benefit of the system, and to avoid having too many women that end up bidless.

All the chapters agree to abide by the system because its the most efficient way to manage the recruitment of a large number of new members. None of us could or would want to pledge all our legacies, but because we all promote the system to our friends and classmates and legacies we all mutually benefit from the system. It's not perfect, but it does work something along the lines of what Ronald Reagan once said..."when the tide comes in, it raises up all the boats in the harbor."

I amy not have all this exactly right, but maybe someone whose been involved more recently with the RFM can give their perspective?

[Zillini]

Originally Posted by itb

That's another problem; a chapter SHOULD be able to contact it's alumni to inquire about a legacy (for good or for bad). And once again, an artificial limit is put in place. Common sense says it's courteous to alumni to talk about little Suzy the legacy, regardless of the subject, and probably best because some of those alumni have experience and knowledge OR INFORMATION that a 18-22 year old or a 'chapter advisor' or 'rush consultant' do NOT have.

That's the purpose of the GLO's legacy introduction form (or whatever each group calls it) and Rec. This gives Grandma, Mom, or Sis the opportunity to tell a Chapter all about little Suzy before Recruitment starts.

Like 33girl said, I have no desire to call Suzy's Grandma to ask her why her sweet princess has the most alcoholic, trampy pix on Facebook I've ever seen or why she only earned a 2.1 GPA with an ACT score of 15. Nor do I or any member of my team have the time to call Grandma and the other 99 legacy PNMs' alumnae that are going through our nearly 1500 PNM Recruitment.

These are the same reasons are why I'm happy my GLO no longer requires us to make those unpleasant calls to alumnae after a legacy is released.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by Zillini

That's the purpose of the GLO's legacy introduction form (or whatever each group calls it) and Rec. This gives Grandma, Mom, or Sis the opportunity to tell a Chapter all about little Suzy before Recruitment starts.

Like 33girl said, I have no desire to call Suzy's Grandma to ask her why her sweet princess has the most alcoholic, trampy pix on Facebook I've ever seen or why she only earned a 2.1 GPA with an ACT score of 15. Nor do I or any member of my team have the time to call Grandma and the other 99 legacy PNMs' alumnae that are going through our nearly 1500 PNM Recruitment.

These are the same reasons are why I'm happy my GLO no longer requires us to make those unpleasant calls to alumnae after a legacy is released.

To be quite honest, why should we have to disclose WHY a legacy was released?

I understand that we should notify the relative of the release, but I totally disagree with having to tell them that "Suzy has questionable grades and has beer pong pics on Facebook."

As far as my sorority goes, THAT is part of Membership Selection. It's very private.

We would never tell any other PNM or her family the exact reason that she was cut, so I fail to see why we should do it for legacies.

[ADqtPiMel]

Originally Posted by Zillini

These are the same reasons are why I'm happy my GLO no longer requires us to make those unpleasant calls to alumnae after a legacy is released.

Can I tell you how pleased I was that they adopted this policy the year BEFORE I became recruitment advisor?

[lauralaylin]

You're thinking of flex lists. When given a number that the chapter can invite back, they are often also asked to give a + and - list with a specific number of PNMs ranked. So if the chapter does better or worse than expected, they are covered. IMO this makes it not arbitrary at all.

[WCsweet<3]

I understand why legacies are given some extra treatment (at some places that is). I mean the parents do have more of a clue about greek life than non-greek parents, but on the other hand, I feel like it puts pressure on the PNM. If I don't like Mom/Sister/whatever sorority will they be mad? If Patty PNM is a legacy to XYZ the other sororities will cut her because that is the only place she will want to be.

The two examples I put above have been things I've heard tossed around GC or on my campus. A girl I have known all my life went through recruitment after her mother and sister went through on the same campus. Older daughter almost didn't continue through recruitment because she didn't like her mom's chapter. The second daughter was crying when she went through because she didn't know what to do with her family's chapters. Was she supposed to love them? She ended up pledging her sister's sorority (sisters squared) and her mother was fine with that, but both daughters had a lot of pressure and needless worry because of the legacy factor.

It makes sense to me, but on the other hand it doesn't.

[KSUViolet06]

I think the level of worry that a PNM experiences in regards to being legacy (i.e. worrying if mom will be upset about her not liking XYZ/getting cut from XYZ/dropping XYZ) depends on the type of parent/relative we're dealing with.

If you have an ultra supportive mom who really just wants to see you happy and didn't really push the legacy chapter, you likely aren't going to be TOO hung up on getting cut from there or dropping them (or just not liking them).

However, if your mom is the type who feels that come hell or high water, you WILL be an XYZ, has been grooming you for XYZ since birth and nothing else will do, you likely are going to be pretty worried about whether you get invited back there. Mom's approval depends on it.

[SydneyK]

It sounded to me, too, that the collegians didn't want her skank ass in the chapter. Maybe I read it wrong, but it sounded like the chapter wouldn't have been allowed to refrain from bidding the girl without the support of the TC and DTD.

[violetpretty]

I truly believe that if an alumna wants to be active, she can, in some way. She can:
-donate to the foundation
-advise a collegiate chapter
-help out with a collegiate chapter's recruitment
-be a member of an alumnae chapter
-be involved with the local Alumnae Panhellenic
-volunteering on/donating to a collegiate chapter's corporation board

I think distinguishing between alumnae who are involved in at least one of these areas would create plenty of separation between legacies of active alumnae and legacies of alumnae who haven't done a thing since graduation. How can you say it's so important for your daughter/sister/granddaughter to be in your sorority if you've done nothing since graduation?

Not having an alumnae/collegiate chapter or Alumnae Panhellenic nearby certainly does not prevent an alumna from donating to the foundation, nor should it prevent an alumna from advising a collegiate chapter if she wants to. I know an alumna who lives in Texas who advises a chapter in rural Pennsylvania because they have a need for advisors.

I don't think the amount donated to the foundation should matter, just that the alumna donates regularly. People have different financial situations. I'd rather an alumna donate what she can consistently over the years rather than "Helga von Heli" try to buy her daughter's way in right before recrtuitment after years of nothing. Everyone can afford to donate something.

Being a busy mom doesn't prevent involvement in one of those areas, particularly, donating to the foundation. If her nearby alumnae chapter doesn't have a "mommy" niche, she should advocate for that. Plus, helping with recruitment once a year isn't a terribly huge time commitment, but still shows you care.

If there is a sorority alumna who lives more than 2 hours away from a collegiate chapter, an alumnae chapter, and an alumnae Panhellenic, and is in dire financial straits, working 2 jobs and caring for her kids, seriously ill etc. that can be noted on the RIF. But I think alumnae who truly have no time, no money, and live far away from any chapter are in the minority. For the most part, if an alumna wants to be involved, she can.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by violetpretty

I truly believe that if an alumna wants to be active, she can, in some way. She can:
-donate to the foundation
-advise a collegiate chapter
-help out with a collegiate chapter's recruitment
-be a member of an alumnae chapter
-be involved with the local Alumnae Panhellenic

I think distinguishing between alumnae who are involved in at least one of these areas would create plenty of separation between legacies of active alumnae and legacies of alumnae who haven't done a thing since graduation. How can you say it's so important for your daughter/sister/granddaughter to be in your sorority if you've done nothing since graduation?

Not having an alumnae/collegiate chapter or Alumnae Panhellenic nearby certainly does not prevent an alumna from donating to the foundation, nor should it prevent an alumna from advising a collegiate chapter if she wants to. I know an alumna who lives in Texas who advises a chapter in rural Pennsylvania because they have a need for advisors.

I don't think the amount donated to the foundation should matter, just that the alumna donates regularly. People have different financial situations. I'd rather an alumna donate what she can consistently over the years rather than "Helga von Heli" try to buy her daughter's way in right before recrtuitment after years of nothing. Everyone can afford to donate something.

Being a busy mom doesn't prevent involvement in one of those areas, particularly, donating to the foundation. If her nearby alumnae chapter doesn't have a "mommy" niche, she should advocate for that. Plus, helping with recruitment once a year isn't a terribly huge time commitment, but still shows you care.

If there is a sorority alumna who lives more than 2 hours away from a collegiate chapter, an alumnae chapter, and an alumnae Panhellenic, and is in dire financial straits, working 2 jobs and caring for her kids, etc. that can be noted on the RIF. But I think alumnae who truly have no time, no money, and live far away from any chapter are in the minority. For the most part, if an alumna wants to be involved, she can.

You can add Life Loyal membership to that list for organizations that have that option.

I agree with what you said. There are numerous ways to give back if your sorority really means something to you.

[33girl]

As I mentioned in the other thread...what about the rushee whose mother passed away? Phooey on her?

I honestly believe this should be a chapter by chapter decision, rather than alienating alumnae with "tiers" of alumnae "importance" for a matter that many chapters never even have to deal with. If XYZ at Texas wants to say that because of the huge amount of legacies rushing, the only women considered legacies (with the special consideration that entails) are those whose mothers or sisters were in the chapter at Texas, fine. Spell it out and publish it in the magazine/online so there's no one who can scream clueless. And so they know that if they're a Penn State XYZ alum sending their daughter to Texas, there's a good chance that she won't get a bid.

I mean, this is kind of the way it works anyway...I think there would be a lot fewer hurt feelings if it was spelled out. Yeah, there will be women pissed at Texas XYZ, but maybe not so much at XYZ as a whole.