Has the tradition of Legacies outgrown its usefulness?

[AOEforme]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

See and I don't think that's something that Rho Gams should tell girls.

Because who you want to be when you grow up doesn't always fit best with the type of people you like to be around and what your personality is.

Nevermind the whole "pick the house" statement because recruitment doesn't typically involve picking so much as ranking them.

No, totally. And while it was well-meaning, most girls weren't like "Hey, this house is classy and mature. They are all professional, well-put together women who are socially gracefully and kind. "

It was more like "Hey- these are the hot, pretty partiers who date the best fraternity men. I want to be them."

[BlueCarnation]

Originally Posted by AOEforme

No, totally. And while it was well-meaning, most girls weren't like "Hey, this house is classy and mature. They are all professional, well-put together women who are socially gracefully and kind. "

It was more like "Hey- these are the hot, pretty partiers who date the best fraternity men. I want to be them."

So true. And that's why legacies are such a tricky issue. I really thought I had a well-reasoned argument on this, and as I go through the recruitment process right now with my chapter, I am beginning to rethink it. It's just so tricky.

[WCsweet<3]

On the topic of legacies, I have been wondering lately about what happens if the person you are a legacy to is deceased? For instance, while ADPi was not on either of my campuses, if I had gone through recruitment what should I have done as my grandmother was a member, but had died decades ago? Should I have tracked down another ADPi and told them or does the legacy status end with the death of the member? I have a feeling that might vary depending on what sorority we are talking about and I do not mean to single out ADPi that was only an example. I was just wondering if there was a procedure to go through.

[BlueCarnation]

Originally Posted by WCsweet<3

On the topic of legacies, I have been wondering lately about what happens if the person you are a legacy to is deceased? For instance, while ADPi was not on either of my campuses, if I had gone through recruitment what should I have done as my grandmother was a member, but had died decades ago? Should I have tracked down another ADPi and told them or does the legacy status end with the death of the member? I have a feeling that might vary depending on what sorority we are talking about and I do not mean to single out ADPi that was only an example. I was just wondering if there was a procedure to go through.

I don't think it matters. My grandmother was deceased when I went through, but I was still considered a legacy. Why would it matter whether they were alive or not?

[WCsweet<3]

Isn't there a legacy form to fill out and send to the chapter? I wouldn't have known my grandmother's pin number or anything like that.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by WCsweet<3

On the topic of legacies, I have been wondering lately about what happens if the person you are a legacy to is deceased? For instance, while ADPi was not on either of my campuses, if I had gone through recruitment what should I have done as my grandmother was a member, but had died decades ago? Should I have tracked down another ADPi and told them or does the legacy status end with the death of the member? I have a feeling that might vary depending on what sorority we are talking about and I do not mean to single out ADPi that was only an example. I was just wondering if there was a procedure to go through.

I can't speak for other sororities, but as for mine, you are still a legacy even if the sister/mother/grandma is deceased.

Originally Posted by WCsweet<3

Isn't there a legacy form to fill out and send to the chapter? I wouldn't have known my grandmother's pin number or anything like that.

We do have space on our rec form to indicate if the rec is for a legacy (not a separate form), but I don't believe it asks for the relative's badge number. I believe it only asks for her name, chapter and initiation date. The recruitment director will use that info to verify her legacy status.

[WCsweet<3]

Ah okay thank you. The thought had popped into my head when reading this thread and while I know what to do for KD, I wasn't sure about other sororities.

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by WCsweet<3

On the topic of legacies, I have been wondering lately about what happens if the person you are a legacy to is deceased? For instance, while ADPi was not on either of my campuses, if I had gone through recruitment what should I have done as my grandmother was a member, but had died decades ago? Should I have tracked down another ADPi and told them or does the legacy status end with the death of the member? I have a feeling that might vary depending on what sorority we are talking about and I do not mean to single out ADPi that was only an example. I was just wondering if there was a procedure to go through.

My grandmother is deceased and another alumna sent in the form to Alpha Gam. I have also done that for a woman who wasn't a legacy per our policy, but she was close to the relative and I mentioned that in a letter.

[Zillini]

This year we had a legacy PNM whose mother was deceased. Mom's pledge sisters jumped in and a bunch of them sent Intros and Recs just to make sure she was "covered". The daughter is now one of our new members.

[lyrelyre]

Originally Posted by itb

To put it bluntly, if there wasn't a quota system, wouldn't all legacies be offered a bid, provided they were of appropriate moral character? After all, I think that the legacies' mother/sister/aunt/grandmother/(and so forth) would understand if little Suzie was of dubious moral character or legal status that she would NOT be offered a bid. The real problem is that the chapters do a POOR job of talking to the family and keeping them informed, when they OUGHT to be forthright. For example, if little Suzie was told BEFORE she would not be offered a legacy bid, I'm sure little Suzie would move on. But the chapter does not always work like that. In truth, they work in secret and keep it secretive. The chapter and the national HAVE to be in communication with their members on their legacies; it's when they are NOT that problems occur.

To put it bluntly: no, all legacies would not be offered a bid if there wasn’t a quota system. Sometimes there are legacies who are perfectly nice and meet the membership criteria but do not have that elusive “fit” for which all chapters are looking. Further, most people don’t know if their daughter/niece/granddaughter is of “dubious moral character” and, as a recruitment advisor, I’m not going to be the one to slander someone to a family member even if that family member is a fellow alumna. Additionally, a chapter cannot have contact with a PNM or her family.

Originally Posted by 33girl

Once again I ask - would either of you enjoy being in a chapter with 400 members? Seriously?

Would you enjoy having a choice of only 3-4 groups at a campus of 25,000 because only the "strongest" groups have survived?

Moreover, the strongest groups aren’t going to be willing to pledge every PNM. This leads to 3-4 “strong” groups and a large number of women being left out of Greek life.

Originally Posted by TSteven

So if I understand what everyone seems to be saying, the issue seems to be that some chapters have more legacies than they can bid. That there can be legacies that are a good fit and are desirable *and* the legacy herself wants to be a member. Yet due to quota etc., she may be released.

If that is the issue, then what about the following.

HQs consider changing their rules regarding Alumnae Initiation (gasp!) so that legacies may "seek" (don't know the correct terminology) membership in their legacy sorority. If ABC currently does not allow AI, they would *now* do so *if* the women was a legacy *and* she was a good fit. A sort of special consideration or exception as the case may be.

To be clear, AI would not be a guarantee at all. And may not be offered or allowed for "just anyone".

The way I envision this is that a chapter will still cut legacies and extend bids to those they want. However, for the legacy that is cut and still wants to an ABC, she would have the ability to seek membership as an alumnae. She would not be guaranteed it, but have the ability to seek it. Thus some NPC HQs would have to change their policy on AI.

Now it is true that the girl may not have benefited by having been an undergraduate member of ABC. But if she was "groomed" to be an ABC, and really wants it, and would be a good fit as an alum, then why allow it? The undergrad chapter is not compromised at all. For what it is worth, something similar seems to work well with NPHC sororities.

Finally, my intent is not to have a "ABC does not offer AI" discussion. But to have HQs think *Outside The Box*. To discuss ways that a legacy - who truly sees herself as an ABC - have a way to be an ABC and be a production member as well. Something along this line might be a partial solution to what will most likely continue to be the *more legacies than bids* issue.

Allowing legacies to AI if they meet membership criteria would exacerbate the situation. You would potentially be creating even more legacies that could not be offered bids in the future. Not to mention that if the undergraduate chapter would have been “compromised” by her membership, I most likely do not want her as a sister through AI.

Trust me; chapters do not release PNMs, especially legacies, that they want as members. Chapters release PNMs that they would take as members and invite back the PNMs to whom they would like to offer bids.

[itb]

[QUOTE=lyrelyre;1840262] Additionally, a chapter cannot have contact with a PNM or her family.

/QUOTE]

That's another problem; a chapter SHOULD be able to contact it's alumni to inquire about a legacy (for good or for bad). And once again, an artificial limit is put in place. Common sense says it's courteous to alumni to talk about little Suzy the legacy, regardless of the subject, and probably best because some of those alumni have experience and knowledge OR INFORMATION that a 18-22 year old or a 'chapter advisor' or 'rush consultant' do NOT have.

[33girl]

Think about when you were in school though...if someone's grandma had called you asking about her granddaughter that she loves more than anything on earth, wanting to know if she got a bid. What Grandma doesn't know is that her pride and joy spent the summer partying at the FGH fraternity house, sleeping with half the brothers and doing lines of coke off their charter.

You need to put yourself in a 19 year old's position and think about how horrid that situation would be. I know we had a sister (eventually terminated) whose dad was an administrator at the college - she was the wildest girl I ever knew, and her dad blamed US for corrupting her. Nothing could have been further from the truth!! That situation was bad enough, I can't imagine what the girls go through who are dealing with hundreds of legacies (not all of whom are as squeaky clean as they appear on paper).

Sororities are collegiate groups whose members are chosen by college students. For better or worse, that's the way it needs to stay, unless the whole system is completely revamped into something more like a job or college entrance interview.

[kddani]

See itb's other 6 posts for history of his/her tour on the bitter bus.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by kddani

See itb's other 6 posts for history of his/her tour on the bitter bus.

Yeah, I know. I'm hoping maybe eventually she'll get the point, or read something that rings true.

[lyrelyre]

Originally Posted by itb

That's another problem; a chapter SHOULD be able to contact it's alumni to inquire about a legacy (for good or for bad). And once again, an artificial limit is put in place. Common sense says it's courteous to alumni to talk about little Suzy the legacy, regardless of the subject, and probably best because some of those alumni have experience and knowledge OR INFORMATION that a 18-22 year old or a 'chapter advisor' or 'rush consultant' do NOT have.

I disagree. Silence rules are in effect to keep chapters from placing pressure on a PNM and her family. They may be “artificial” and imperfect, but they’re what we have. If you can recommend something that’s legitimately better, go for it. If all you are going to do is complain and offer no workable solutions you can ride the bitter bus on out of here.

The fact remains: most people don’t know if their daughter/niece/granddaughter has a bad reputation. It’s probably a generational thing, because sisters generally do know of one another’s reputations. Like I said: I'm not calling little Suzy's mother/aunt/grandmother and telling her that little Suzy might look good on paper but she's really a skank.