Black Men and White Women Is it a Problem?

chAKAlate, you made a lot of good points & I understand (& agree with) much of what you said. About not seeing any white people in Compton... why do you think that is? I've never been to Compton so I do not know from first hand experience, but, there are areas where white people do not feel safe and areas where black people do not feel safe (another person posted this as well). Maybe Compton is one of those types of areas?


chAKAlate wrote:
"And please stop saying that slavery does not matter. History, does not matter?"

Not everyone is saying this. I think the majority of people in this conversation are saying that we
need to remember the past, learn from it and use that knowledge to help create a better today & tomorrow.


Poplife wrote:
"but anger has no place in progress."

I totally agree.


Discogoddess wrote:
"It's disengenous for anyone to try and absolve themselves of the responsibility to work toward change by saying their nor their ancestors owned slaves."

That wasn't the point of those comments. The comments regarding slavery were in relation to some certain people in this discussion having great anger/hatred towards ALL white people because some white people in the past did very bad things. The comments were that some white people did bad things, but there were many more who did good (it's all in my previous messages). My conclusion was that NOONE should hate another person because of the color of their skin and had nothing to do with absolving the responsibility of working towards a more positive future. Yes, we all need to work towards a more positive future, for all people.

[SilverTurtle]

Kimmy posted

I'd just like to know---I am from a country in the Middle East. My people have been enslaved, raped, beaten and killed by neighboring states. Let's remember that racism is going on RIGHT NOW!!! In Iran, Syria, etc... People keep talking about "Well, why aren't you white people doing anything to stop racism?" I ask you, "Why aren't you AMERICANS doing anything to help people in the Middle East???" I'll tell you why--it's too hard to make a significant difference in the world. I just wish we could all make little changes in the way we treat others--all those little changes could add up to a few big changes.

When I was in Berlin a few years ago, I saw a portion of the Berlin Wall that is still standing (as a reminder). One of the sections has painted on it the following phrase, in German and then English (and it's one of my fave quotes ever):
Many small people, who in many small places, do many small things can alter the face of the world



------------------
SilverTurtle@greekchat.com
Phi Beta Fraternity
Phi chapter

[Wonderful]

Here we go again with the discussion of race. As an African-American female majoring in education with a specialty area of history I have had the fantatstic advantage of truly "understanding" history. I attend a HBCU (Black college)and have been taught history from both sides of the coin so I feel educated enough to comment on this from three perscpectives a historian, an African-American, and a woman. I will try to keep the post short as possible. Since this whole thread stared about interracial dating my personal opinion is NO I don't like to see a black man with a white woman, and thats simply how I feel. Now for the white respondents. No matter how good your intentions are in your heart you will never understand or for that matter should understand where we as African-Americans are coming from. Its unfortunate but its reality. I think that it's prettygryl (sp)"tone", not the message, that has so many people fired up. I understand completly what she is saying and agree with a lot of it, but she will find that on the internet tone is everything in a message. Are all white people evil? Of course not, I think that is how alot of white are interpretting these posts. White people have done some evil things (like every other race) but no one has systematically set out to conquer and exploit every race on this earth except those of European descent. So collectively as a whole alot of non-Whites view you in a negative light. You know what I am sorry too that your ancestors conquered, raped, murdered, enslaved, and exploited the races of the world, but hey thats the past right. Well no actually its not. The result of those actions has effected every African-American in this country and in Africa as well. Think about this and I would love an educated repsonse. What would happen if for example China decided to take the smartest, strongest, people we have in America (for hundreds of years) take them to work the rice fields in China and then ban English, Christianity, and strip us of human rights. You know what kind of country you would have hundreds of years later? A continent much like Africa where the basic problems are finding something to eat, not serving your country four years so you can go to COLLEGE! So you know what lets agree we can not UNDERSTAND the experience and try to atleast get along.
Responses always welcome!

[theXgirl]

Originally posted by Wonderful:
Now for the white respondents. No matter how good your intentions are in your heart you will never understand or for that matter should understand where we as African-Americans are coming from. Its unfortunate but its reality. !

Who's reality are we talking about?
And what's wrong with accepting good intentions regardless of where or who it comes from? In the long run it's to the benifit of all. I've seen a lot of EXCUSES on this post that are feeding into keeping race relations the way they are, sour. I am doing my part to better my country for my friends, my family AND YOU. What are you doing?

[Poplife]

Gyrl:

Actually my comment was more towards people who complain about the status of blacks without bothering to stop and think about how it was. I'm not speaking as if it were a privilege. You say you're not grateful???? You're not grateful for everything your ancestors tried and died for??? You're not grateful that you can do what you what when you what if your really want to???? If that's true then that's just too bad for you. Your shades of anger discolor my words. I am grateful BUT it's not for the fact that I can now work with white people. I'm grateful because I don't have to choose between being a washerwoman and a mammy. I am grateful because everyday I am recognized for being a good sales person and an all around descent human. I am grateful because I can go to any school I want. It doesn't matter who I am with while I do these things. What matters is that I can actually do them.

Damn, you are one angry sista!!!!!

ChAKAlate: I understand you seeing black/being proud to be black when you look in the mirror. I am too!! The reason I say that it's not the FIRST thing I see when I look in the mirror is MOST of the things that define me as a person cannot necessarily be linked to my race. I can't say I want everyone to see a black girl first (and when you wear an afro like me that's hard...lol). I'd rather have them see an intelligent female with a wonderful creative side and a wild sense of humor. But if they see black that's cool too...being black definitely influences me but it doesn't totally define me. :-)


I see it this way: I got more stuff in life to deal with. I can talk about it for years but it won't change anything. I'm happy with who I am and joyous when I think of the things I will become. I've been weighed down by anger, hate, and frustration before and I won't let myself be pulled into the vortex again.

Originally posted by prettygyrl:
Too Poplife (this is no diss)...... What you said is partly what saddens me about me about my people girrrrrrrl you say that "in 1895 you would not be able to work in Nordstom" I mean YOU say that as if it is a PRIVILAGE!! Thats no dam privilage!!!!!! Fuck That! I am tired of my people feeling like that because now we are so called "allowed" to be where WHITE people are at we should be happy! sweetie thats that slave mentality!!!! WE SHOULD HAVE NEVER NOT BEEN ALLOWED TO BE WHERE THEY WERE IN THE FIRST DAM PLACE!!!!! FUCK THEM!!!! THEY THINK THAT WE SHOULD BE THANKFUL NOW THAT WE CAN SHOP WHERE THEY SHOP AND ALL THAT SHIT !! HELL NAW I AM NOT GREATFUL CAUSE THAT IS JUST NORMAL EVERYDAY SHIT THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN THERE FOR US TO DO FROM DAY ONE. WE ARE PEOPLE TOO AND WE ALWAYS HAVE BEEN!

[This message has been edited by Poplife (edited June 01, 2000).]

[darling1]

Hello all,

The original post discussed the pending marriage of Kobe Bryant. Anyone that hoped this wouldn't become an issue of race was living with blinders on...sorry . To answer the question, yes, black men and white women will be a problem and will continue to be one for years to come. As we all see from the posts, people have some very strong opinions. I too would like to offer mine. I could care less what Kobe does cuz he is not paying my bills particularly my tuition...lol. Why is this even an issue? There are so many other things in this world, in this country that are far more important. We have people in this country who live in towns with no government representation. There are African-American children who are living in the adoption system who will probably remain there until age 18. There are also interracial and non-interracial children in foster care because they are too old. There is slavery, poverty, lack of human rights in Africa. Women being circumcized in Africa. The AIDS crisis there has also worsened and we are concerning ourselves with Kobe and his lovelife? I mean no disrespect to the initiator of the thread or to the people who have posted, but I hope that you think about the bigger picture. I also think about what my ancestors went through, not as far back as 1895 but 1916 before my grandfather was born. My great grandmother was threatened by the Klan because of the beliefs of my great grandfather. By the grace of God was she not killed nor my grandfather, yet to be born. Thinking of that makes me appreciate the fact that I don't have to deal with something like that. NO it doesn't make me greatful to white people because everything I have was earned through hard work and blessings from the Creator. I also do keep in mind that had this been the 1800's I may not have the opportunities as I do now OR I may have the flipside because I am light skinned. To ignore that fact will make me a very lost and ignorant person. For me it is fuel to persevere and excel so I can change the slave mentality that many of us have. Prettygyrl, I understand your anger but I think you may have misinterpreted what Pop was saying. Peace.

------------------
Never cast your pearls before swine Matthew 7:6

[prettygyrl]

FIRST OF ALL........I will respond to Poplife I am not going to get it into to a heated discussion with anyone of my people here in this forum. But I do want to say this much.... I do not know what world you live in that you can do whatever you want to when you want. Girl please come this way and i would like to see you walk through a number of cities and make it out alive. Hell I would like to see you with a college degree be amongst many making more than a white person without one! You misunderstood what I was saying sweetie.... of course I am glad that we are able to DO some things that were not accessible to us before BUT AT THE same time dear.... as i said those were things that never should have been off limits to us in the first place. So no I do not feel a whole lot of joy about the fact that so many of my people had to lose their life for JUST for me to be able to go to a good school, or sit down and eat with a white person. HELL NO I AM NOT GREATFUL OR HAPPY ABOUT THE FACT THAT SO MANY OF MY PEOPLE HAD TO DIE JUST SO I COULD BE TREATED HUMAN! You said there are so many other things you have to worry about than things of this nature or that you do not see yourself as Black first......I say this just because you do not talk about these issues do not mean they will go away. If you do not see BLACK first then let me tell you that everyone else does. THIS IS FOR EVERYONE...... I AM NOT ANGRY I AM HURT BY THE WAY THINGS HAVE BEEN AND ARE FOR MY PEOPLE! IT PAINS ME TO SEE THE DESTRUCTION THAT HAS COME UPON US AT THE HANDS OF OTHER HUMAN BEINGS(WHITE PEOPLE) THIS IS SOMETHING THAT I AM VERY PASSIONATE ABOUT BECAUSE IT AFFECTS ME AND MY CHILDREN AND MY FRIENDS AND MY FAMILY ETC. I DO NOT WALK AROUND EVERYDAY WITH A CHIP ON MY SHOULDER READY TO BEAT DOWN ANY WHITE PERSON THAT I SEE. NO I AM BETTER THAN THAT. AS I HAVE SAID BEFORE I AM VERY MUCH SO ABLE TO LIVE, AND DEAL WITH WHITE PEOPLE IN THIS WORLD. I CHOOSE TO ONLY DATE BLACK MEN AND ONLY HAVE DEEP ASSOCIATIONS WITH PEOPLE OF COLOR THAT IS MY CHOICE. AS FAR AS HOW PEOPLE THINK I COME OFF IN MY POST....... THATS TOO DAM BAD TAKE THEM FOR WHAT THEY ARE MY OPINIONS AND MY OWN PERSONAL FEELINGS. I DO NOT TRY AND DISS PEOPLE OR HURT ANYBODYS FEELINGS. I HAVE ONLY SPOKEN TRUTH AND IF THERE ARE WHITE PEOPLE WHO READ WHAT I SAY IN THIS FORUM AND GET OFFENDED THEN THEY MUST BE GUILTY. I SPEAK FROM A HISTORICAL STANDPOINT AND FROM MY EXPERIENCES. I AM NOT SPEAKING FOR EVERY BLACK PERSON IN THIS WORLD (I WISH I WAS THOUGH) I AM SPEAKING FOR ME. IF I TYPE IN ALL CAPITAL LETTERS IT IS BECAUSE THAT PART OF WHAT I AM SAYING IS IMPORTANT. I KNOW SOME ASSOCIATE ALL CAPS WITH YELLING BUT THAT IS NOT THE MESSAGE I AM SENDING. I CAN NOT BE ANGERED BY THIS FORUM I DO NOT KNOW ANY OF YOU AND NOR YOU ME SO WHAT SENSE WOULD IT MAKE TO GET ALL HOSTILE. IT IS JUST SOME THINGS PEOPLE SAY ARE JUST STUPID AND SOME THINGS SADDEN MY HEART. THATS IT THATS ALL. FYI: OVERALL I AM A PRETTY HAPPY PERSON I KNOW THAT NO WHITE PERSON IS GOING TO KEEP ME FROM DOING ANYTHING. THEY ARE A EXTREMELY SMALL PART OF MY OWN PERSONAL WORLD. I DEAL WITH THEM WHEN I HAVE TO AND WHEN I DO NOT HAVE TO I CHOOSE NOT TO! THSTS NOT ANGER NOR RACISM THATS JUST MY CHOICE!

I'm white. Black people are an extremely small part of my world. I deal with black people only when I have to. Honestly, it makes no difference to me if I ever see another black person. I mean if they all picked up and moved or whatever, I would not miss them at all.

Does this make me, a white person, racist?

If it does, then prettygyrl, you must also be a racist. Because those words were not mine. They were yours. Yes, I know the words are not exact, I switched the places of black & white in what you said. Those were all words you stated in the above message & another message on page 2 of this discussion.

prettygyrl, you may not be a racist but that is definitely the impression you are giving off.

LOOK AT THIS... for anyone who did not read this entire message and is thinking the first paragraph is coming from me, please read this entire message and you will get the point.

[Poplife]

Originally posted by prettygyrl:
I do not know what world you live in that you can do whatever you want to when you want.

Well, you have you thought about the fact that I don't want a plethora of things? I eat where I want to eat, I shop where I want to shop, I wear what I want to wear, I date who I want to date, I go to the school that I want to go to, and I'm friends with the people I want to be friends with.

Girl please come this way and i would like to see you walk through a number of cities and make it out alive.

What's that supposed to mean? I was born in Southeast D.C. and if anyone is from the area they know how it is. Luckily my parents prioritized and got out before it could have any real effect. And I'm proud that I live in a nice area. Why should I be ashamed I don't live in the ghetto anymore?????

I said those were things that never should have been off limits to us in the first place.

True. But there is nothing we can do about it now. Our feet are in the doorway so let's open the door.

HELL NO I AM NOT GREATFUL OR HAPPY ABOUT THE FACT THAT SO MANY OF MY PEOPLE HAD TO DIE JUST SO I COULD BE TREATED HUMAN!

I'm not HAPPY about it either. But I have to say I'm grateful that somewhere people had the courage to stand up for what they knew was right. That's where I get a lot of my strength and positivity from.

You said there are so many other things you have to worry about than things of this nature or that you do not see yourself as Black first......I say this just because you do not talk about these issues do not mean they will go away. If you do not see BLACK first then let me tell you that everyone else does.

See, that's where you're wrong. Why do you think I'm so interested in *** sorority??? It's not because I want to step and stroll. I feel that some changes need to be made within the black community and being in a BGLO gives me more networking ability and support to accomplish these goals. There is a difference between thinking about these issues/trying to make a change and getting caught up in them. How do you know what I talk about?? You don't know me. How can I not think about it when I work in a white area and when my first college was all white?!

I've heard people in the bathroom in my floor talking about the N!gger in 403 (me). I've heard people say that so-and-so must like black people because he likes rap. I've heard the white girl next door talk about how she thinks I'm in a gang because I wear a scarf at night. I've had people come into my store and boss me around like my name is Butterfly McQueen.

You think that doesn't make me angry???

Poplife doesn't give a flip what people see first. People will see what they want to see anyway. It doesn't bother me, so why should I care???

My thing is this: I could tell you about many one on one racist incidents I have encountered face to face, but why? I refuse to become the stereotypical angry black person. You think you're the only one who hurts by this? Girl, I'm not all "let's hold hands and heal the world" but when I look back on all that has happened I feel that we have already been hurt too much. By allowing ourselves to constantly feel angry and upset we are simply allowing ourselves to continue to feel hurt even though our grounds still shake with the echo's of the past. It takes more strength to stay positive and to be happy with what you have than it does to let anger get the best of you. My father said that the best thing we can do is concentrate on bettering ourselves and that's what I'm doing.

Even though I "grew up well" (not my term) I still get mad when I go to my old neighborhood and see people that used to be my neighbors still there. I wonder "why me and not them too?" I hurt as well, and not only that, but sometimes I feel guilty even though I didn't have anything to do with it.

I just wondered why you seemed so focused on whites when they're not the only other non-black race in this country. Maybe it's me, but I didn't think whites were the only people that have a problem with me being black. It come come from anyone...sometimes even your own (you should know what I mean.)

We all suffer from the same ills in one way or another....it's all about how you take it.



[This message has been edited by Poplife (edited June 04, 2000).]

[prettygyrl]

Username actually no i would not think you were a racist if you said that in all actualty i would not really give a dam. Ya dig! If you think it makes me racist so be it! My plight in life is not to please other people but to please myself, take care of my business and help my people any way i can! Poplife I am glad you can handle things so well. I agree to disagree with everybody you handle things your way i handle them mine. Its cool. I was not knocking the way you feel I was just clarifying what I said. Everyone gets so bent about the things I say but I have told no lies and I speak from the heart. I am a very blunt person and i respect anyones opinion.

[Monique]

Wassupp.. I just wanted to be number 100!!
Hahahaha.. but for real pretty gyrl much love and respect to ya gyrlie!! Love to everyone else who see's her point cause I'm feeling her 110%... peace

Hey! You beat me to it. Guess I'll have to settle for #101...

[Poplife]

You know what? I've spent so much time off-topic I never commented on the original thread.

Well, all I have to say is this: I like to see strong black men marry strong black women. It's one of the best sights someone like me can see. BUT I really can't talk about racial mixing because many people that I love and respect are products of a black person with a non-black mate (i.e. my bestfriend and Prince. ) If I don't know the reason someone married outside their race then I can't speak on it. How do we know why they are with that person?? It's not always a case of wanting to change the flavor of their candy (but sometimes it is). Someone spoke about how some black men can get when they come into a bit of money. That's true, but I read in a few magazines that the girl Kobe is marrying was his high school sweetheart.

Plus, isn't he from Cali???? Well then that explains a lot! lol. I know out there it's a common thing. Alot of black men are dating/marrying Latinas. Kobe is one of many.

There are more kinds of interracial couples than black/white. Take my bestfriend: All four of her grandparents are either mixed black people or non-black. Another friend of mine is Guyanese. Her mom is black and her dad is East Indian. In Guyana (not to be confused with the African country Ghana) no one cares. It's too common to be bothered by it.

To the people that say that are against it, is that just for white/black relationships or for any black/non-black, white/non-white and so on and so forth type of thing?



[This message has been edited by Poplife (edited June 04, 2000).]

i will be the first to admit, that there have been quite a few times when i have seen black men with white women and it hurts. Mostly because it does seem like when black men reach a certain stature in life they seek out either the lightest damn near close to white women they can find...or a white woman. Not to mention the fact that black men date white women far more than black women date white men although those numbers seem to be increasing. For the man that dates any woman of various nationalities not based on the color of their skin but for that person's qualities, that I have no problem with...it's only those that date exclusively outside their race that bother me. For someone to be black and date only white, it's as if your saying that your own skin color isn't beautiful. If you cannot find beauty in your own people enough to date them, than you definitely are suffering from low self esteem because you would have to have a bad case of self hate to exclude your people from your personal dating game. The same applies to white's. I have seen plenty of white girls who date only black men exclusively and people who do these things offer very weak excuses for doing so. And often times than not base their decision to date exclusively outside their race based on stereotypes. Those stereotypes I won't bother going into we all know what they are! Basically what I am saying is if you have a strong sense of self you can open yourself to dating all races as we all have something to learn from and offer each other. If you choose to date exclusively outside your race, I suggest you see a therapist about your severe color complex issues.

[Poplife]

Originally posted by True Greek Love:
Basically what I am saying is if you have a strong sense of self you can open yourself to dating all races as we all have something to learn from and offer each other. If you choose to date exclusively outside your race, I suggest you see a therapist about your severe color complex issues.

I agree. Well said!