African American women in CPC, opinions, please?

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

^ sigmadiva, do you think it occurs to them that they might be shunned? Or even whether they had ever been shunned previously. Remember that rush is the first time a lot of these women have been "judged."

Right. To many women, they've always been The Only, and have never felt shunned at any point in their lives.

It doesn't occur to them that potentially being The Only in a sorority (or one of a handful) would be any different than being the Only in their school/peer group that they grew up in (which has been a relatively uneventful experience).

[ellebud]

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

that's too bad. every chapter missed out on a fabulous member!

First of all, thank you. I think that I would have benefited from being in any house because, as the years have passed I am still friends with a few of my sisters and I benefitted in many ways from my membership. And life has a way of working its' way out.

I will say that I transferred to the school across town and reaffiliated there. During my senior year 1970s we pledged a Black girl. She was NOT the first btw. Pat (her first name) was also involved with the BSU. She informed us that on campus SHE couldn't recognize us or acknowledge us. I graduated before I heard the end of the story.

Our first Black girl, who graduated in the late sixties, was a former Miss Teen USA, or California...perhaps runner up? Obviously she was stunning. During rush when we had our scrapbooks out, somehow her picture was always showing. NOT because she was Black...because she was drop dead gorgeous.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

^ sigmadiva, do you think it occurs to them that they might be shunned? Or even whether they had ever been shunned previously. Remember that rush is the first time a lot of these women have been "judged."

Exactly. Also, a lot of these girls haven't been shunned by their non-black peers, but by black classmates and relatives. If you're the Only in your social circle, and you haven't been excluded by your white friends--what happens when you go to visit relatives, or you're in a situation where you're around a lot of people of your ethnicity and they accuse you of "acting white"?

The summer before my senior year in high school, a pre-college week at a well-loved and regarded Southern university. It was geared towards black students who were interested in certain career fields. I was pretty excited about it, since the college was very popular in my hometown and I had visited the campus and LOVED it before. Well, I was stunned to find out that, according to most of the girls in the program, I "acted white," I "talked white." Hell, according to a few of them, I even "sneezed white." Seriously? I had never heard anything like that before.

I doubt my experience is that unique...so, if you have teenagers who have experienced that more times than I did, why wouldn't they go NPC, when their friends are doing the same thing?

[dreamseeker]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

Exactly. Also, a lot of these girls haven't been shunned by their non-black peers, but by black classmates and relatives. If you're the Only in your social circle, and you haven't been excluded by your white friends--what happens when you go to visit relatives, or you're in a situation where you're around a lot of people of your ethnicity and they accuse you of "acting white"?

this is what i was thinking about when someone earlier was asking about "the only ones" joining an NPHC.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

Those issues may occur--BUT, you have to realize that many, many Black women who join NPC sororities are used to being the "Only" in their social contexts, in their schools, neighborhoods, what have you. Even if NPHC Greek Life is part of their family or social context, it may not be something they'll think of doing. Some of them might not feel completely comfortable around large groups of unrelated black people. Whether or not that's right or wrong isn't for me to say--I can't judge teenagers I don't know.

So, many go to college wanting to do the same thing their non-Black friends are doing. In that case, they are joining the sisterhood that feels right to them. You'll see that there are a good number of Black NPC members here who have remained active as alumnae, and had good experiences. Others might "discover" their blackness in college and regret their decision.

So, I can't "question" those young women, because they're just doing what they know best at the time.

Thank you. You are awesome. You already knew that.

I remember the Black men and Black women in NPC and NIC organizations that I have interacted with in undergrad and taught when I got older. Except for one of them, all of these Black men and women were obviously and admittedly "mimicking" what they think "white GLOers" should dress like (which includes a young Black woman who was in denial about her hair texture), act like, and talk like. It even extended to things like "mimicking" the facial expressions of their white counterparts which sounds strange but a lot of things we do are based on socialization--those who know what "dual identity" and "double consciousness" are will know what I mean.

I recall being told by an older Black student who was an NPCer that she wishes she had learned about the NPHC before joining an NPC. That annoyed the hell out of me because I don't believe in being apologetic and explaining yourself when it comes to such life choices. Sure, you can never be NPHC but all is not lost if you're looking for "the Black experience" and philanthropy that focuses on the African diaspora. Afterall, she could still hang with the other Black students (some of whom weren't in any sorority or fraternity) instead of relegating herself to the "cool Black girl who is unlike other Black people we've met" in most of her NPC and NIC interactions.

Originally Posted by Senusret I

That's one good thing about black NPC girls who are NPHC-aware. There's this family/internalized pressure that's like "I don't care if you joined a white sorority, you BETTER be in it for life."

If that didn't come out right, shut up. You know what I mean.

LOL. I hate you in the most loving way possible.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by ellebud

I will say that I transferred to the school across town and reaffiliated there. During my senior year 1970s we pledged a Black girl. She was NOT the first btw. Pat (her first name) was also involved with the BSU. She informed us that on campus SHE couldn't recognize us or acknowledge us. I graduated before I heard the end of the story.

Our first Black girl, who graduated in the late sixties, was a former Miss Teen USA, or California...perhaps runner up? Obviously she was stunning. During rush when we had our scrapbooks out, somehow her picture was always showing. NOT because she was Black...because she was drop dead gorgeous.

*cough*

Tokenism.

*cough*

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

Exactly. Also, a lot of these girls haven't been shunned by their non-black peers, but by black classmates and relatives. If you're the Only in your social circle, and you haven't been excluded by your white friends--what happens when you go to visit relatives, or you're in a situation where you're around a lot of people of your ethnicity and they accuse you of "acting white"?

It is a reciprocal relationship. Some of these people are not accused of "acting white" because they do things like speak well and get good grades. Afterall, many of us went to all white schools, were always honor students, speak well, but were able to maneuver both worlds quite well (with exception for the people who weren't accustomed to Blacks who spoke well, etc.).

Socialization is powerful and that applies to the things that I typed in the other response to you. If you take someone who has been socialized as the "Black visitor for whiteness/white privilege," that will reflect when they are all-Black settings. The Black person who is no longer "the Black person here" now has to deal with not being the center of attention. Now they are just like the rest and they will be called out if they appear disconnected, discontent, insecure, unaware, and socially inadequate based on cultural identifiers.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

I had never heard anything like that before.

I doubt my experience is that unique...so, if you have teenagers who have experienced that more times than I did, why wouldn't they go NPC, when their friends are doing the same thing?

I can one up you. Apparently I "smelled white" at one point. WTF?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

I can one up you. Apparently I "smelled white" at one point. WTF?

What perfume were you wearing? I'm asking that seriously. I'm curious.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I recall being told by an older Black student who was an NPCer that she wishes she had learned about the NPHC before joining an NPC.

Is it really possible to be isolated from other Blacks to the point that you would honestly have no clue what the NPHC is before you pledge somewhere else? I mean, even if you are living in the middle of Whiteyland, I'd guess you'd have some extended family that isn't.

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

^ sigmadiva, do you think it occurs to them that they might be shunned? Or even whether they had ever been shunned previously.

And I would like to know why voluntarily join an org where you know that you might be shunned?

Being in an academic (school) or living situation (home / community) that you can not control and being shunned is one thing. To knowingly join an org that you really don't have to join and being shunned seems, well, ridiculous (for lack of a better word).

Remember that rush is the first time a lot of these women have been "judged."

Based on what? (<--- Slightly rhetorical question )

On another note, this also makes me consider people who ask why I would consider pledging an NPHC fraternity knowing I could be shunned as a gay man. If I put myself in their shoes, I think I can empathize with them even more.

I think the difference though is that you are open about your sexuality and you will not change that for anyone. If I remember reading in Muchkin03's post a page or two ago, she said something to the effect that she had to change her behavior to fit in with her (White) sisters. Or, there is an expectation that a minority will change his/her behavior to fit in with their White counterparts.

Sen I, I'm sure that when you are around your Alpha brothers you don't start acting "straight" to fit in with them. You are who you are whenever and where ever.

[ellebud]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

*cough*

Tokenism.

*cough*

Sorry, no. She was gorgeous and semi famous in those years. Every house shows off their best and brightest in present time and the history of the house as in we've always been great. (as in those days, "you join us and you can be with gorgeous girls going to fabulous events" and "look how long we have been doing fabulous events!") It definitely wasn't along the lines of, look how liberal and nice we are. It was, "we are so gorgeous and always have been!!!"

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Is it really possible to be isolated from other Blacks to the point that you would honestly have no clue what the NPHC is before you pledge somewhere else?

Yes, just as there are Blacks who spend 24/7 with (usually lower income and socially isolated) Blacks and have never heard of the NPHC until they go to college.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by ellebud

Sorry, no. She was gorgeous and semi famous in those years. Every house shows off their best and brightest in present time and the history of the house as in we've always been great. (as in those days, "you join us and you can be with gorgeous girls going to fabulous events" and "look how long we have been doing fabulous events!") It definitely wasn't along the lines of, look how liberal and nice we are. It was, "we are so gorgeous and always have been!!!"

I'm not just talking about that.

But, let's pretend that I was. Given the 1960s context, I do not believe there wasn't a trace of "liberal white people with the beautiful and famous Black person" going on there. I wouldn't believe you even if you claimed there wasn't; and you most likely can't remember 100% of what your 1960s college brain was thinking and you definitely don't know what was entrenched in the other women's 1960s thought processes and actions.

You have to understand that there is something embedded in comments such as: "...we pledged a Black girl," "she was NOT the first btw," "She informed us that on campus SHE couldn't recognize us or acknowledge us" and "Our first Black girl...Obviously she was stunning. During rush when we had our scrapbooks out, somehow her picture was always showing. NOT because she was Black...because she was drop dead gorgeous." These are actually very typical majority-minority relations comments that illustrate tokenism on the part of the majority and the minority (the token). I'm not claiming any bad intentions on your part. I am talking about structural dynamics and how we consciously and subconsciously reinforce them everyday.

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by ellebud

First of all, thank you. I think that I would have benefited from being in any house because, as the years have passed I am still friends with a few of my sisters and I benefitted in many ways from my membership. And life has a way of working its' way out.

I will say that I transferred to the school across town and reaffiliated there. During my senior year 1970s we pledged a Black girl. She was NOT the first btw. Pat (her first name) was also involved with the BSU. She informed us that on campus SHE couldn't recognize us or acknowledge us. I graduated before I heard the end of the story.

Our first Black girl, who graduated in the late sixties, was a former Miss Teen USA, or California...perhaps runner up? Obviously she was stunning. During rush when we had our scrapbooks out, somehow her picture was always showing. NOT because she was Black...because she was drop dead gorgeous.

So "Pat" joined and didn't want to let people know she was a member? I know this was back when it was common to wait a semester for initiation, so I'm guessing you don't know how that story ended? Seems like a good way to not get initiated as a sister and not have to worry about anyone knowing.

[ellebud]

Time clarification: Miss Teen California, USA...I'm not sure what graduated several years before I began at this school. (I believe that would have graduated in '68 or so). I wasn't there yet. She was famous on the row and in the house for her beauty and intelligence. I know that she was pinned to a fraternity boy because of the pictures but beyond that..........I didn't "know" her. Was she famous because she was Black? No. She was a beauty queen which, at that time, held great cache. And, according to house legend was one of the nicest girls ever.

Pat and I shared only one year in the house. During the second quarter she made an announcement in chapter meeting her problem of reconciling her membership in the BSU and the sorority. SHE said that on campus she would not/could not acknowledge us. And we, in accordance with the times, agreed to let her follow through on this decision.

I graduated. I do not know what happened after that. Was I offended? Yes.